Suggestions for Dawlish avoiding route(s)

[HarleyDavidson]

Isn't it rather pathetic when a near 40 year old train can continue to run, yet a 13-14 year old one can't run because the sea affects the braking system & gawd knows what else.

Modern technology... Pah!

 

[plymothian]

So a really rigorous, reliable train service for Plymouth then?

It's what we expect.

If ever the government says about £n investment in the south west, I remember 0 is a figure too.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Isn't it rather pathetic when a near 40 year old train can continue to run, yet a 13-14 year old one can't run because the sea affects the braking system & gawd knows what else.

Modern technology... Pah!

Yep, totally agree. Long Live the HST!

 

[LateThanNever]

It's what we expect.

If ever the government says about £n investment in the south west, I remember 0 is a figure too.

Probably n to the power of 0!

But I think that, having bailed out the wunch of bankers, we should not have such a poverty of aspiration for the world in the south west!

 

[21C101]

Isn't it rather pathetic when a near 40 year old train can continue to run, yet a 13-14 year old one can't run because the sea affects the braking system & gawd knows what else.

Modern technology... Pah!

Remember the floods near Taunton on the levels that shut the line.

In GWR steam days they just ploughed through three deep water (which put the fire out) then coasted to Taunton where another loco was ready to take over...(true story apparently)

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I think this is Brazil, not sure, but I don't think that they'd like us to try & emulate it here in the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwF1-HTH41Q

 

[SWTH]

Remember the floods near Taunton on the levels that shut the line.

In GWR steam days they just ploughed through three deep water (which put the fire out) then coasted to Taunton where another loco was ready to take over...(true story apparently)

Speaking from experience of steam locomotives putting the fire out would be the least of their worries. Water filling the axle boxes/bearings, cold shock to the foundation ring of the firebox, the effects of cold air being dragged through the boiler once the fire was out etc, not to mention the total loss of ability to generate vacuum once boiler pressure dropped below a certain level all point to it possibly happening once or twice, but I very much doubt it would be a planned or regular occurrence! The mechanical damage would be huge.

 

[158722]

I think this is Brazil, not sure, but I don't think that they'd like us to try & emulate it here in the UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwF1-HTH41Q

Argentina. Linea de San Martin, Buenos Aires.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/534267/Dangerous-gales-wind-turbine-whirls-itself-ground

Last picture in the article, can't be too nice for the driver having to drive through that.

If Class 800s were used on the route eventually, do they have any external stuff that wouldn't get on very well with sea spray?

 

[MarkyT]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/534267/Dangerous-gales-wind-turbine-whirls-itself-ground

Last picture in the article, can't be too nice for the driver having to drive through that.

If Class 800s were used on the route eventually, do they have any external stuff that wouldn't get on very well with sea spray?

I understand what makes Voyagers vulnerable is the resistor bank on the roof and the control equipment and wiring that connects it into the traction system, used for dissipating braking energy from the traction motors in generator mode, a technique known as rheostatic braking and currently unique to the Voyager in the UK, I expect the 800s, being diesel electric, to also have rheostatic braking which can save significant pad wear costs when used blended with conventional friction braking, but I would also hope designers will learn from the Voyager experience and try to engineer out the vulnerability. However the resistors or their bonded heat sinks muat be on the outside of the train somewhere, or just behind ventilation grilles to effectively dissipate the heat.

 

[ainsworth74]

If Class 800s were used on the route eventually, do they have any external stuff that wouldn't get on very well with sea spray?

Part of the specification is that they need to be able to operate with sea spray. Its almost like someone was specifically trying to avoid ordering Voyager Mk2. But hey don't let anyone else hear that as it goes against the popular opinion that runs on this forum from certain quarters!

 

[D1009]

Looks like there may be problems tomorrow morning, high water at Dawlish is 0941, and weather forecast for 1000 at Dawlish is wind from the south south east at 29 mph average, gusting to 47 mph with heavy rain, with wind strengthening until 1200.

 

[21C101]

Looks like there may be problems tomorrow morning, high water at Dawlish is 0941, and weather forecast for 1000 at Dawlish is wind from the south south east at 29 mph average, gusting to 47 mph with heavy rain, with wind strengthening until 1200.

I imagine that there will likely be a precautionary closure.

I suspect it is regular low level disruption in winter months that will finally force this issue (or/together with a significant landslip from the cliffs above), rather than another spectacular fail of the wall.

 

[D1009]

I doubt it, the weather forecast is no worse than yesterday morning, and the height of the tide is reducing towards the weekend. In any case the weather may not be as bad as forecast, the met office usually errs on the side of caution. Almost certainly voyagers won't operate however, and this will reduce the number of trains meaning that if reversible working has to be introduced it won't cause as much disruption as otherwise.

 

[Rapidash]

Not entirely sure why everyone is freaking out about the odd wave crashing over - its the same as it ever was, and no one really gave a flying monkeys before this years breach.

The Spotlight report on it was just so overhyped - it wasn't exactly terrifying when I used it less than an hour before I was more cheesed off with Torquay seafront being closed yesterday! Talk about tedious detours!

 

[D1009]

Not entirely sure why everyone is freaking out about the odd wave crashing over - its the same as it ever was, and no one really gave a flying monkeys before this years breach.

The Spotlight report on it was just so overhyped - it wasn't exactly terrifying when I used it less than an hour before I was more cheesed off with Torquay seafront being closed yesterday! Talk about tedious detours!

No, WE NEED TO REBUILD MELDON VIADUCT TOMORROW:roll:

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Western Morning News 11/11/14
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...221-5bn-rail/story-24514558-detail/story.html

South West peninsula “united” behind £5bn rail plan as Dawlish disrupted again
Read more: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...tory-24514558-detail/story.html#ixzz3IsqZhIYB
Follow us: @WMNNews on Twitter | westernmorningnews on Facebook

The South West Peninsular is way behind on spending per head on rail infrastructure.
I have been through Dawlish with the thuds of water on the carriage roof - spectacular!
As soon as possible Voyagers need to be replaced with more suitable stock.

 

[Rapidash]

Western Morning News 11/11/14
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...221-5bn-rail/story-24514558-detail/story.html

South West peninsula “united” behind £5bn rail plan as Dawlish disrupted again
Read more: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...tory-24514558-detail/story.html#ixzz3IsqZhIYB
Follow us: @WMNNews on Twitter | westernmorningnews on Facebook

The South West Peninsular is way behind on spending per head on rail infrastructure.
I have been through Dawlish with the thuds of water on the carriage roof - spectacular!
As soon as possible Voyagers need to be replaced with more suitable stock.

Thank the almighty Zordon that there's explicit recognition that Torbay, Scabbot and the Hams need a back up as well as Plymouth/Cornwall from that group! Genuinely did think we were going to be forgotten about!

 

[yorksrob]

Western Morning News 11/11/14
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...221-5bn-rail/story-24514558-detail/story.html

South West peninsula “united” behind £5bn rail plan as Dawlish disrupted again
Read more: http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...tory-24514558-detail/story.html#ixzz3IsqZhIYB
Follow us: @WMNNews on Twitter | westernmorningnews on Facebook

The South West Peninsular is way behind on spending per head on rail infrastructure.
I have been through Dawlish with the thuds of water on the carriage roof - spectacular!
As soon as possible Voyagers need to be replaced with more suitable stock.

It's good news if the South West peninsula speaks as one voice on this, and well done to Central Devon for getting the Okehampton route included in the package. Let's hope they keep up the pressure to make sure it doesn't get sidelined.

 

[plymothian]

Trouble is, as FGW can *currently* keep a semblance of some service running, the Okehampton route is only seen as a worst case scenario potential back up.

With Level 1 working such as Tuesday gone, no trains would have been diverted via Okehampton; XC would still have been curtailed at EXD. Therefore with an operational FGW timetable, why would anyone need to go via Okehampton when it would only be a 15 min delay via DWL?

Even with Level 2 working, it's very unlikely that anything would be diverted too. The only time diversions would happen is if DWL was impassable again for a long period of time or any stock cascaded after IEP have the same problems as voyagers.

This is why Okehampton is not seen as viable by the government - all that faff for a "handful" of days a month, with little [predicted] return as a 'normal' railway.

 

[yorksrob]

Trouble is, as FGW can *currently* keep a semblance of some service running, the Okehampton route is only seen as a worst case scenario potential back up.

With Level 1 working such as Tuesday gone, no trains would have been diverted via Okehampton; XC would still have been curtailed at EXD. Therefore with an operational FGW timetable, why would anyone need to go via Okehampton when it would only be a 15 min delay via DWL?

Even with Level 2 working, it's very unlikely that anything would be diverted too. The only time diversions would happen is if DWL was impassable again for a long period of time or any stock cascaded after IEP have the same problems as voyagers.

This is why Okehampton is not seen as viable by the government - all that faff for a "handful" of days a month, with little [predicted] return as a 'normal' railway.

Well, it seems to be being looked at as part of a package of measures at present. Government has said it wants a unified voice from the South West and in order to get Central and North Devon on board, the Okehampton route needs to be included as part of it.

 

[plymothian]

I'm not denying that.

But for Okehampton to succeed it does need the whole of Devon and Cornwall to shout loud, but to tip the balance (books?) North Devon and Cornwall to prove need for a regular railway as well as Plymouth and Cornwall needing a back up.

It needs to be Devon's Waverley line.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not denying that.

But for Okehampton to succeed it does need the whole of Devon and Cornwall to shout loud, but to tip the balance (books?) North Devon and Cornwall to prove need for a regular railway as well as Plymouth and Cornwall needing a back up.

It needs to be Devon's Waverley line.

That goes without saying. If the route went through nothing but wild moors, then it would very difficult to justify for diversions alone. Fortunately it runs through Tavistock, Okehampton, Crediton, a national park and has the potential to serve Launceston as well, so it would provide a vital link all year round.

 

[HowardGWR]

That goes without saying. If the route went through nothing but wild moors, then it would very difficult to justify for diversions alone. Fortunately it runs through Tavistock, Okehampton, Crediton, a national park and has the potential to serve Launceston as well, so it would provide a vital link all year round.

It only skirts the NP, invading the boundary a bit south of Sourton and then of course only on the original solum. That is an advantage for the reinstatement proponents, not a drawback. Proponents should avoid the phrase 'through a national park'.

 

[yorksrob]

It only skirts the NP, invading the boundary a bit south of Sourton and then of course only on the original solum. That is an advantage for the reinstatement proponents, not a drawback. Proponents should avoid the phrase 'through a national park'.

I'm sure the planning inquiry will find someone better qualified than me to provide a detailed geographical summary of the route. Nevertheless, it would provide excellent access to the National Park for visitors.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I'm sure the planning enquiry will find someone better qualified than me to provide a detailed geographical summary of the route. Nevertheless, it would provide excellent access to the National Park for visitors.

If promoted correctly it will surely pull in a fair few passengers purely to enjoy the very scenic nature of the journey itself, just like the S&C.

 

[yorksrob]

If promoted correctly it will surely pull in a fair few passengers purely to enjoy the very scenic nature of the journey itself, just like the S&C.

Indeed. From pictures, the area around Lake viaduct looks quite impressive.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Indeed. From pictures, the area around Lake viaduct looks quite impressive.

And finally just to add, traveling across the top of spindly Meldon viaduct must have been /will be(sorry getting carried away) very dramatic!...
Think I had better shut up now

 

[HowardGWR]

I'm sure the planning inquiry will find someone better qualified than me to provide a detailed geographical summary of the route. Nevertheless, it would provide excellent access to the National Park for visitors.

What planning inquiry? I mean by that that it will be interesting to discover what legal situation applies to a closed line.

 

[Woody]

I often wonder what would be the situation now regarding the current political hoo ha over rail investment in Devon and Cornwall had last winters storms at Dawlish and the equally disastrous flooding on the Somerset levels never happened. Not a lot I expect. After all up till then as long as the railways kept running some how, any how nobody in any government including most of the two counties MPs really seemed to care a damn as long as people could get there in the summer holidays.
The government must be cursing their luck it all happened on their watch. Thoughts!