Taking a Cycle on a Train

[DaveNewcastle]

It's my experience that FGW are good at making platform announcements to advise passengers when an arriving HST set is running in reverse formation.

(I wish EC were as effective in announcing substitutions of an HST for an electric set - the cycle storeage on each is at opposite ends.)

 

[Bob Ames]

They really ought to have cycle storage at both ends, where possible. The last time I put a bike on an 11-coach Pendo, it took me 6 minutes to walk from Coach A to Coach D (the first coach I came across with available seats - that service was rammed). I dread to think how long it would have taken me if I had seat reservations in Coach K...

 

[Flamingo]

They really ought to have cycle storage at both ends, where possible. The last time I put a bike on an 11-coach Pendo, it took me 6 minutes to walk from Coach A to Coach D (the first coach I came across with available seats - that service was rammed). I dread to think how long it would have taken me if I had seat reservations in Coach K...

Six minutes? Did your Zimmer frame get tangled in the bike wheels?

 

[Bob Ames]

Six minutes? Did your Zimmer frame get tangled in the bike wheels?

Heh. Nah, most of that time was spent waiting in the aisles for people with huge suitcases to pass, including one woman who managed to get her suitcase stuck in the middle of Coach B...

 

[Markdvdman]

I have nothing against cyclists - as they are doing themselves good.

However, on peak trains they cause massive problems.

Yesterday, I was desperate to go to the loo before getting to Llanelli but two cycles blocked the way to the toilets. It was pathetic, and you could not tell if there was a queue or not. suffice to say, I had to suffer until I got to my destination.

It is no problem having bicycles on trains, but there has to be limits.

Talking about trains, the first trains from Merthyr (6:38) were cancelled Wednesday and Friday this week. Very cheesed off with Arriva as it cost me worktime I could not afford to lose, and the next train on the friday was 15 mins late getting to Cadoxton.

Arriva lie on the website too - not a cancelled train etc. It IS for Merthyr people aaargh

 

[kieron]

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/P51462/2013-06-28

That train doesn't appear to go to Gloucester. I did think of something along those lines when I saw Flamingo's unhelpful remark, though.

Where there is a Guard, he would be expected to manage his train so as to avoid a situation like that.

I doubt a guard would do much more, given that they can't throw people or luggage off a train, and can't refuse to start off without a really good reason, and most people board trains without staff assistance.

Trains also require emergency exits, and they should also be kept clear of obstructions. The same principle applies, as it would also do on a plane for example.

Trains aren't designed for rapid evacuation. I'm sure there are situations where an item left in the way of the door wouldn't just be removed by one of the first people to get to it, though.

I'd certainly advocate having to book a slot for bikes at peak times to ensure only a minimum number are allowed in. I took the 1650 Llandudno train from Man Picc tonight and all the door areas were blocked by the damn things.

Be fair, though. The cycle spaces will be full of prams, suitcases and passengers who congregate in the wider bits of the train, so a cyclist who reserved a space would only be able to take advantage of it if he boarded at Piccadilly and was lucky enough to be one of the first ones on, or if he got a lot of help from the guard.

With regard to this thread, I'm not sure I'm keen on bicycles being singled out in this thread, when suitcases, prams and people who choose to spend the journey in the vestibule rather than the body of the carriage all cause difficulties for other passengers.

 

[pemma]

Be fair, though. The cycle spaces will be full of prams

Maybe only let under 5s travel for free at off-peak times?

 

[AlexS]

The guard has every right to remove people, luggage, cycles, pets or indeed anything else from the train. While physical removal of a person is a legal can of worms, removing cycles and luggage left in an inappropriate place is perfectly normal. Its also a good tactic for getting their owners off as they will tend to follow their property, and if they intervene physically in the legal enforcement of a byelaw they will find themselves banged up fairly quickly. The railway can also charge a fee for property removed in this manner.

This is why I have a large set of boltcutters, a saw and a crowbar for removing inappropriately attached cycles in my office. One chap had chained his bike to a notice stating not to chain your bike here and I took great delight in destroying his lock and charging him for the privilege.

 

[Flamingo]

Kieron, you appear to be operating under quite a few misconceptions about the roles responsibilities and authority of a Train Guard (or other officers of the railway), not to mention the terms and conditions of travel.

I suggest you read the NRCoC and relevant bylaws.

 

[DeeGee]

Can I reboot this thread with a question?

I'm considering taking a bike from Grimsby Town to Redcar and back again one weekend. Out in the late Sat pm. return Sun mid-afternoon/early evening.

Obviously, it'll be FTPE, EC + NR.

I understand that I'm supposed to make a reservation on FTPE, although in practice I've seen many bikes in vestibules of a weekend.

I'm also obliged to make a reservation on EC and the bike will go in the van at the first-class end of the train(?)

I don't have to make a reservation on NR, but their policy is 2 bikes per train, and it's a long while since I've been on a Pacer so I've no idea whether there's likely to be any flexibility.

I'll be travelling on an Open Return ticket.

I've got a couple of questions.

1. Am I likely to be able to get stuff from my bike (say I leave a set of panniers on it) during the journey on EC?

2. Am I pretty much constrained to the booked EC train, or is there a little flexibility?

3. If the answer to 2 above is "No flexibility", what happens if the train from Redcar has too many bikes on it? Is my journey scuppered?

(Obviously, Mods, please move this if I'm in the wrong by rebooting this thread?)

 

[jopsuk]

On EC, your bike is only guarenteed on the train you have the booking for. They may accomodate you on a later train if there is sapce, but they will not guarentee this.

For extra fun, the bikes space is at the 1st class, usually London, end on the 91+ Mark 4 electric sets in the DVT, but the standard class, usually Country, end on the HSTs in the TGS. I think the reservation coupon says "coach P" for the former and "Coach A" for the latter?

 

[gordonthemoron]

London Midland ban non-folding bikes from trains arriving into Euston M-F 07:00-09:59 and departing from Euston M-F 16:00-18:59.

However, there's some bright spark who gets on at Leighton Buzzard who has a full sized folding bike, i.e. it folds in half sort of but it still takes up nearly as much space as a non-folding bike. I knowing technically he's obeying the rules, but it does look like taking the ****

 

[jb]

Either the front or back coach, there's no way for us to know which way round it'll be (even if we knew the service!) until the day.

If it's a 158, then you want to be near the centre, as whichever coach it is, it'll be one of the doors nearest the middle of the train.

If it's a 150, then assuming FGWs 150s are similar to most 150s, it will be at one end of the train or the other.

Heading way back upthread, I have to say you're good at this advice lark yorkie.

• The OP asked "which carriage?"
  
• You replied with "it'll either be at the front, the back or in the middle"
  
• They said "Brilliant".

 

[leytongabriel]

Parts of this thread reminds me of the time I took a bike on the Jubilee line of the London underground, getting on at Stratford, offpeak, all perfectly legal. Folded the bike up on the train but once we got to Canning Town there were a series of announcements about no bikes on the underground section, getting a bit more agitated until a 'this train will not be moving until the person with the bike has got off the train' message came through. Now I thought there were other bikes on the platform so I didn't react at first but to make sure, I left the carriage and clearly indicated that my bike was folded. Wasn't good enough evidently as the train controller then made his way ( not very rapidly I'd add) down the train checking all the cars till he got to the one I was in. Saw my folded bike, made some grumpy remarks and slowly stomped up the platform again. Jubilee line service delayed for several minutes.

Another time I was made to carry the bike folded over the footbridge at Epping although unfolded, being thinner, was easier for people to pass in the opposite direction. Does the rule about folding bikes on the underground apply to the trains or the entire staion once through the barriers?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I take my bike on the train an awful lot and would make a couple of observations;

1. No matter what the official line is, if you stay civilised and polite, the guard is far more likely to allow you to take your bike on the train even if you haven't reserved. The only exception to this is East Midlands Trains, who really do get stroppy if you try and take your bike on a SHF-NRW or SHF-STP service without a reservation, even if the cycle spaces are empty. On a recent (bikeless) journey on a Meridian I even heard the guard make the announcement "As there are no cycles reserved on this service, please note the cycle space will be locked out of use for the duration of this journey"!

2. Why do people insist on sitting or standing in the cycle space, even when there are plenty of other available seats on the train? This is a particular issue on Northern 142 and 150 units, and especially on TPE 185s, where the cycle area has fold down seats.

In general however, I would say that taking your bike on a train is much better than it used to be 15-20 years ago, when you were charged £3 for each single journey and you couldn't relax becuase you never knew if the guard's van was going to be locked and unattended when you reached your destination.

 

[gordonthemoron]

2. Why do people insist on sitting or standing in the cycle space, even when there are plenty of other available seats on the train? This is a particular issue on Northern 142 and 150 units, and especially on TPE 185s, where the cycle area has fold down seats.

agree wholeheartedly, the seats in the bike space usually aren't very good either. It would ofcourse help if London Midland signed their bike space (like Southern do)

 

[The Barlow Boy]

London Midland ban non-folding bikes from trains arriving into Euston M-F 07:00-09:59 and departing from Euston M-F 16:00-18:59.

However, there's some bright spark who gets on at Leighton Buzzard who has a full sized folding bike, i.e. it folds in half sort of but it still takes up nearly as much space as a non-folding bike. I knowing technically he's obeying the rules, but it does look like taking the ****

There's an easy way out of this that all the companies could instigate. All they have to do is to announce that any bike that has wheels larger than 16"/41cm and fewer than three fold points is banned.

 

[transmanche]

2. Why do people insist on sitting or standing in the cycle space, even when there are plenty of other available seats on the train? This is a particular issue on Northern 142 and 150 units, and especially on TPE 185s, where the cycle area has fold down seats.

I've found that a polite "sorry, can I pop my bike into the cycle space" does the trick on 185s. On busy 142s, the guards have advised me to pop the bike into the step by the door - luckily the platforms were all on the same side, so the bike could sit in the opposite stepwell.

 

[jopsuk]

There's an easy way out of this that all the companies could instigate. All they have to do is to announce that any bike that has wheels larger than 16"/41cm and fewer than three fold points is banned.

Pretty sure LU did have a similar rule to that for folders- though with 20", and something along with "folds to largely within the diameter of the wheels".

 

[brompton rail]

National Rail did introduce a 20" wheel size restriction but quickly withdrew it a couple of years ago. I think the problem was .. How do you measure wheel size - tyre size or railway staff with a tape measure!

Anyway the National Rail "Cycling by Train 2013" leaflet says 'COMPACT' folding bikes, accompanied by pictures of Bromptons (leaflet is, of course, sponsored by Brompton!).

As a Brompton will fit into most Intercity (HST, East Coast Mk4, Voyager) this is by far the easiest to use.

 

[Mex]

I see the bike hate brigade have been round to share their wisdom. Did I miss anything about not paying taxes, getting in the way, anything like that?

 

[jon0844]

I see the bike hate brigade have been round to share their wisdom. Did I miss anything about not paying taxes, getting in the way, anything like that?

They have? I must have missed them.

No mention of taxes or running red lights here, but some of cyclists blocking aisles and doorways, and some people who think that it's okay to break the rules if only going one or two stops.

I do think some folding bikes, the ones that only fold one way down the middle, are still a pain as they do still take up far too much room. It also 'tests' the rules about folding bikes, as where would you expect some bike manufacturer to take it?

A bike that lets you fold down just the handlebars, and calling itself a 'folding bike'?

When the rules were made, I expect people thought of the likes of a Brompton (other companies also exist!) and so that's why it was decided that these could be carried at all times. Once you have someone building a bike that doesn't really fold properly, you really screw things up!

 

[broadgage]

London Midland ban non-folding bikes from trains arriving into Euston M-F 07:00-09:59 and departing from Euston M-F 16:00-18:59.

However, there's some bright spark who gets on at Leighton Buzzard who has a full sized folding bike, i.e. it folds in half sort of but it still takes up nearly as much space as a non-folding bike. I knowing technically he's obeying the rules, but it does look like taking the ****

I thought that the full wording of the rule was "fully folding cycles that are fully folded and enclosed in a suitable container"
Can anyone confirm or deny ?
The "enclosed in a suitable container" bit NEVER seems to be enforced.

 

[transmanche]

I thought that the full wording of the rule was "fully folding cycles that are fully folded and enclosed in a suitable container"
Can anyone confirm or deny ?
The "enclosed in a suitable container" bit NEVER seems to be enforced.

From the Cycling by Train 2013 leaflet.

Compact, fully folding cycles are carried without restriction on all trains (when folded down), however you may be required to cover the cycle and place it in luggage racks. You may also be required to fold the cycle before passing through the ticket barrier.

 

[jon0844]

Certainly not enforced that I've ever seen. Even people with folders will often unfold their bikes after alighting and then ride along the platform. Some opt to fold their bike when they've got on with the bike, causing problems with other people getting on.

I've also seen my fair share of people taking (non-folding) bikes on FCC into Old Street or Moorgate, then getting told off at the gate but still being let through. (Non-folding) Bikes are not allowed on trains between Finsbury Park and Moorgate. Again, no enforcement.

Sorry if Mex sees that as anti-cyclist, but these are my own observations and totally real. I am not suggesting it's the norm, but it happens.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I see the bike hate brigade have been round to share their wisdom. Did I miss anything about not paying taxes, getting in the way, anything like that?

Eh? I take my bike on the train twice a day, and put it in the cycle storage space whenever possible

 

[pemma]

2. Why do people insist on sitting or standing in the cycle space, even when there are plenty of other available seats on the train? This is a particular issue on Northern 142 and 150 units, and especially on TPE 185s, where the cycle area has fold down seats.

agree wholeheartedly, the seats in the bike space usually aren't very good either. It would ofcourse help if London Midland signed their bike space (like Southern do)

Most of the Northern 142s and 150s have a designated bike/luggage rack at one end of the train. The fold down bench seats opposite the rack on the 142s are a good place to sit if you've put a bike or luggage in the rack, the ones at the opposite end of the 142 are normally a good place to sit except when it's cold outside. However, if it's one of the few 142s without a rack then most passengers will assume the rack is at the other end when there isn't one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From the Cycling by Train 2013 leaflet.

What if you travel on a train allowing bicycles but change at a station with ticket barriers to another service that only allows bikes to be carried if they are folded up and treated as luggage?

 

[al78]

National Rail did introduce a 20" wheel size restriction but quickly withdrew it a couple of years ago. I think the problem was .. How do you measure wheel size - tyre size or railway staff with a tape measure!

Anyway the National Rail "Cycling by Train 2013" leaflet says 'COMPACT' folding bikes, accompanied by pictures of Bromptons (leaflet is, of course, sponsored by Brompton!).

As a Brompton will fit into most Intercity (HST, East Coast Mk4, Voyager) this is by far the easiest to use.

20" would be a more reasonable limit as that size and smaller is used by the folders which genuinely fold down to a compact package which will fit in the luggage rack.

The easy way to measure wheel size is to look at the measurement on the tyre. All tyres I am aware of have the size displayed somewhere.

 

[krus_aragon]

20" would be a more reasonable limit as that size and smaller is used by the folders which genuinely fold down to a compact package which will fit in the luggage rack.

The easy way to measure wheel size is to look at the measurement on the tyre. All tyres I am aware of have the size displayed somewhere.

Furthermore there are only three main sizes of folding bike: 16-inch wheeled, 20-inch wheeled, and then the full size bikes that just happen to have a hinge in them (26-inch). I used to own one of the latter, but found that its folding credentials were not all that useful. (I'm back to riding a proper diamond frame these days.)

 

[maniacmartin]

Going back to DeeGee's question, I have another question.

If you have an AP ticket, BookdTrainOnly, and cannot board your train due to a lack of cycle space (e.g. if the first leg is unreservable), are you entitled to wait and take the next train?