• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Teaching/Schools in England vs Scotland

Status
Not open for further replies.

Huntergreed

Established Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
16 Jan 2016
Messages
3,023
Location
Dumfries
A thread for the teachers/school staff of the forum!

I'm approaching the final 6 months of my university course (a BEd (hons) course based in Glasgow). As a pupil, I went through the Scottish education system, and all my teaching experience on placements have been based in Scotland. Despite this, I've recently been interested in looking at the prospect of teaching down in England upon graduation. As someone who only has experience of the system in Scotland, I have many questions about the education system/school life down in England and how this differs to my experiences up here!

Firstly, the national curriculum:

In Scotland, the curriculum delivered in all state schools (known as 'Curriculum for Excellence') set by the Scottish Government. This curriculum is delivered from P1-7 (our equivalent to years 1-7 in England) in Primary Schools, and S1-3 (Years 8-10 in England) in Secondary schools. This is known as the Broad General Education (BGE), and is based on a series of 'experiences and outcomes' (what should young people be experiencing in their learning) and standards are set by a series of 'benchmarks', set at different levels, where each learner is encouraged to work towards a level appropriate for their ability. The system is very much about being inclusive to the abilities of all learners, encouraging young people to be involved in decision-making in their own learning and to work at a level appropriate for them (the system is very 'flexible', there could be 3-4 different levels of work needed within the same class).

Following this, when learners progress into S4-6 (Years 11-13), they choose a set number of subjects to study 'national qualifications' in. The syllabi for these qualifications are set by the SQA (a Scottish government board which sets and accredits national qualifications), and all exams in all state schools are written and marked by SQA. All courses are designed to be 1 year long, and students have access to National 4/5 courses in S4 (year 11), Higher courses in S5 (Year 12) and Advanced Higher courses in S6 (year 13).

I have many questions about the English system with regards to how the curriculum is set, interpreted, and delivered by schools:

Is the curriculum centrally set and standardised across the whole country? (i.e. is the exact same content being taught in Berwick-upon-Tweed and Penzance, or is this determined on a more local (school/local authority) level, as I know happens in some countries?)

What are the main documents outlining the curriculum for schools in England? I know in Scotland that, when planning, I just need to refer to the relevant experiences and outcomes/benchmarks document for the relevant subject. Are there similar documents in England, or are teachers more/less restricted in how they wish to deliver the curriculum?

In terms of examinations, it's my understanding that there are multiple examination boards down in England, as opposed to a singular government body in Scotland. How does this work? Are there different syllabi depending on which examination board is used, or is it simply a national syllabus regulated and examined by different boards? Are exams boards decided by school/subject/local authority?

Finally, I understand that pupils only attend secondary school in England up to the end of Year 11 (S4 in Scotland), and years 12-13 are often done at a 'sixth form' college/school? In Scotland, all secondary schools offer S1-S6 so this is a foreign concept to me!

School life:

I imagine school life doesn't differ hugely between the two, but I certainly have some questions!

Generally in Scottish (secondary) schools, the school day starts around 08:40-09:00, and finishes between 14:30 - 15:30. There is normally a morning interval of around 15-20 minutes, and a lunch break of 40-50 minutes. Pupils in S2/3 (years 9/10) and above are normally permitted to leave site during interval/lunch to visit local shops and spend some time outside. Generally, extra-curricular clubs take place during lunch or after school until around 16:30-17:00.

Most school behaviour policies use 'merits and demerits' (a points system) to encourage good behaviour and monitor disruptive behaviour. It is very rare in a Scottish school for a detention to be given regularly to a pupil, and detentions are normally reserved for repeat offences/serious infringements of the school behaviour policy. What I believe is known as 'internal exclusion'/isolation is something I've never come across in a Scottish school. Generally, if pupils are not behaving in class, they will either be sent to a specialist inclusive/nurture unit for support and to work in a quieter, more comfortable environment (a much debated concept, as many see this as rewarding negative behaviour).

I would be interested to hear how life in an English school differs from the above!

Finally, in terms of life as a teacher:

I understand that there's quite a clear difference in pay between English and Scottish teachers, hence why I am keen to gain a full insight into what the career is like down south before making any decisions.

For teachers in England, how well do you feel you are able to strike a good work/life balance? I'm curious to see if the workload differs significantly between the two.

What is the availability of part time contracts (such as 3/4 day weeks) like? This is certainly something I've started to consider (potentially with a view to holding a second job if time allows).

How much flexibility do you have in your planning? Are you stuck rigidly to a very clear curriculum, or are you quite free to deliver content you feel is best for your class and deliver this in a way which you choose?

Any other insights into the differences between the two, I'd be hugely interested in!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Gathursty

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2011
Messages
2,523
Location
Wigan
Welcome.

I teach Maths in England in high schools/colleges.


Is the curriculum centrally set and standardised across the whole country? Yes.

What are the main documents outlining the curriculum for schools in England? You can find the National Curriculum here https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/national-curriculum

Practically, you rock up to your school and your lead/HOD will give you a copy of a more tailored scheme of work for your subject which they have made or tinkered from one they found on the TES website. This scheme of work will generally cover all content with time for internal exams and revision for the SATs/GCSEs/A Levels

In terms of examinations, it's my understanding that there are multiple examination boards down in England, as opposed to a singular government body in Scotland. How does this work? There's AQA,OCR,Edexcel,WJEC etc.. and most of them cover the main school subjects. The exams cover the National Curriculum in whatever subject but wording can be different. Some exam boards can be more generous in marks than others but it's swings and roundabouts.

Finally, I understand that pupils only attend secondary school in England up to the end of Year 11 (S4 in Scotland), and years 12-13 are often done at a 'sixth form' college/school? In Scotland, all secondary schools offer S1-S6 so this is a foreign concept to me!

You're correct. It's because in England some schools just don't have the room for 6th form or there's been a long standing college in the town already which students want to go to. It works for many because it's a physical escape from school but others prefer an attached sixth form.

I feel I'm paid well but not if I had a family to provide for. I feel okay with my work-to-life balance but there's been situations where it's very hard and you just want to sleep when you go home. You've just graduated so you'll want and need to do a 2-year early career teacher contract (Get a full time job and stick at it for two years) You could go straight to supply and do short term day-to-day contracts but there's a limit of about 5 years to do your 2 year ECT unless it's been changed yet again.

Planning - You hopefully have a USB/Drive full of resources from your placement schools/University course by now. If not, get a TES login and start downloading. You can tinker with them or if you really want to make your own, just check its not on TES first.
Also, get on Twitter and follow teachers in whatever subject because they are forever putting up resources on their own website/dropbox or whatever which will save you time you won't have.

Delivery - So long as you follow your scheme of work, you can delivery the lesson however you wish, powerpoints, mini-whiteboards, worksheets, etc...

Anything else.
1) Learn names of pupils and staff quickly.
2) Paracetamol.
3) Lemsip
4) Biscuits
5) Mug/Flask/Water bottle
6) Things can go wrong. That's ok. There's always at least one person in your school who'll be there to help you out.
7) Be kind to yourself and think of one thing you did good at the end of the day even if you didn't manage to get everything that you wanted to do.
8) Don't forget your password/lanyard/key/USB stick/Drive.
9) Do something once a week that takes your mind out of teaching for an hour at least.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,631
The English school system has always seemed a wee bit different to me. Always wondered what 6th form or reception is. Seems simpler in Scotland.

I notice in England you get Church of England schools. Schools in Scotland are pretty much either private or state. In Scotland you will get a catholic school but it wont be named a ' roman catholic' like England.

In Scotland schools will have a sign outside with the school name and council but in England they don't , signs are not standardised.
 

Huntergreed

Established Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
16 Jan 2016
Messages
3,023
Location
Dumfries
The English school system has always seemed a wee bit different to me. Always wondered what 6th form or reception is. Seems simpler in Scotland.

I notice in England you get Church of England schools. Schools in Scotland are pretty much either private or state. In Scotland you will get a catholic school but it wont be named a ' roman catholic' like England.

In Scotland schools will have a sign outside with the school name and council but in England they don't , signs are not standardised.
As I understand it, English some (all?) schools are run by trusts and not directly by the Local Authority (which is the case in Scotland), so this would be more complex!

Definitely not an expert, though I agree the Scottish system seems much less complex at first glance.
 
Last edited:

ABB125

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2016
Messages
3,765
Location
University of Birmingham
As I understand it, English some (all?) schools are run by trusts and not directly by the Local Authority (which is the case in Scotland), so this would be more complex!

Definitely not an expert, though I agree the Scottish system seems much less complex at first glance.
Some English schools are run by (charitable?) trusts rather than directly by the local authority, mostly academies I believe (but I'm happy to be corrected on that). My high school was an academy.
Speaking of which, I'm guessing the 3-tier school system is unknown in Scotland (like it is in most of England)? It's always fun explaining how this works to people who've never heard of it before: "wait, you have three different schools?" :D I can't remember who told me this (and I haven't researched it), but apparently there are only two counties which still use the 3-tier system. Worcestershire is one (though, naturally, each school "progression" (for want of a better term) is slightly different, eg: high school starts in year 9 in Town A, but year 8 in Town B etc), and I want to say Nottinghamshire is the other (but don't ask me where I got that idea from!).
On the subject of Church of England schools, my experience of that (at first school) was that there was no requirement to be religious (or not) in order to be a pupil, but there were always links to the church, eg: saying a prayer at the start of assemblies, the local Reverend would occasionally come in to do some activities, we would take part in occasional services at the village church etc. RE, from what I remember, covered all mainstream religions. I will caveat this by saying that my first school was a tiny (about 60 pupils when I started) village school in the countryside, very much part of the community; clearly an inner-city CofE school would be slightly different! (For one, I bet no-one else got to regularly watch sheep shearing in the barns up on the hill of the local country estate which owned the entire village!)

I will caveat my entire post that I'm not a teacher, my posting is based entirely on my experience as a pupil who finished sixth form (which was part of my high school, if you're interested) in 2020.
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,612
Location
Elginshire
Most people I went to school with followed the secondary education path all the way up to 6th year (Scotland), but there were a handful of people who left school after S4 and went to the local further education college to do their Highers; there would have also have been a few people who would have gone on take ONC/D or City & Guilds if they were intending to take up a trade. I'm not sure if it's possible to do the higher level school qualifications there now, but it did offer an escape route for those who really hated school.

I will caveat my entire post that I'm not a teacher, my posting is based entirely on my experience as a pupil who finished sixth form (which was part of my high school, if you're interested) in 2020.
I'll add a similar caveat to yours, except that I left in 1992. I'm still struggling to come to terms with the fact that 30 years have passed! #auldgit
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
3,038
Location
The Fens
Speaking of which, I'm guessing the 3-tier school system is unknown in Scotland (like it is in most of England)? It's always fun explaining how this works to people who've never heard of it before: "wait, you have three different schools?" :D I can't remember who told me this (and I haven't researched it), but apparently there are only two counties which still use the 3-tier system. Worcestershire is one (though, naturally, each school "progression" (for want of a better term) is slightly different, eg: high school starts in year 9 in Town A, but year 8 in Town B etc), and I want to say Nottinghamshire is the other (but don't ask me where I got that idea from!).
Hertfordshire has middle schools. Suffolk has been going through a protracted process to get rid of middle schools that has been going on for 15 years and is expected to be completed in 2023.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned holiday times, which are quite different, especially the summer holidays which start and finish earlier in Scotland. And I've yet to find anywhere in England that has tattie fortnight!
 

STEVIEBOY1

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2010
Messages
4,001
Friends of mine had experience with their children being education in England, then Scotland and finally New Zealand, the Scottish System seemed to be the best.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,631
Yes, the Scottish summer holidays start at the end of June. Always felt late the English school holidays. I think the English schools get a week off in February whereas in Scotland its just a few days.

The qualifications have changed a bit in Scotland for 3rd and 4th year recently. It has been Standard grades, Intermediates and now Nationals. I think Highers is still the same.

I might be wrong but in Scotland we often call secondaries 'High Schools' .
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,612
Location
Elginshire
I might be wrong but in Scotland we often call secondaries 'High Schools' .

Just to add to the confusion, Scottish secondary schools are often called academies, but they're just regular council-run state schools (with a a few exceptions) and a few are named as grammar schools!
 

Huntergreed

Established Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
16 Jan 2016
Messages
3,023
Location
Dumfries
Just to add to the confusion, Scottish secondary schools are often called academies, but they're just regular council-run state schools (with a a few exceptions) and a few are named as grammar schools!
My town has a high school, an academy, and a college, all teaching the same age-range/subjects!

It also has another college, but this one offers further education!
 

Simon11

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2010
Messages
1,335
I feel I'm paid well but not if I had a family to provide for. I feel okay with my work-to-life balance but there's been situations where it's very hard and you just want to sleep when you go home.

With my partner being a teacher and now having a small one in the house, I definitely agreed with you. Before he was born, the salary was decent and the work/ life balance was okay.

However now with the new role of looking after a family, I (and hopefully my partner) have quickly realised that teaching doesn't really work for teachers with families. Crazy hours and even though she now does 4 day a week (thus gets paid much less), she still does more hours per week than me (plus I can work from home too!).

Hopefully I can persuade her, but she can be the only one to make any decisions around it.
 

Morgsie

Member
Joined
3 Jun 2011
Messages
370
Location
Stoke-On-Trent
I am currently a School Governor at a Secondary (Academy)and looking into teaching both Secondary and FE though unsure which route to go down in terms of subject specialism etc and would like suggestions including books to read if possible please? I am currently reading a few books as part of this including 2 books relating to Education Policy. Part of my role including doing training on Keeping Children Safe in Education which is Guidance from the Department for Education (DfE) and other Guidance includes Teachers' Standards

In addition to Academisation there has been Exam Reforms to GCSE and A Levels within the past 12 years in England for example decoupling A Levels whereas before you could do both AS and A Levels/A2 doing exams/coursework in Modules and now sitting all A level exams after the 2 years and as for GCSE moving from a letter graded system to a numbered system and introduction of Pogress 8 and the English Baccaluareate or EBacc.

I am posting this here as this relates to Education and this Thread but there is talk in the raising or decreasing minimum ages thread about 16 year olds being given the right to vote in Elections yet the flip side to that coin is political education or citizenship and this is what I am interested in and thinking of teaching. Citizenship was a recommendaton of the 1998 Crick Report and was formally added to the National Curriculum arround between 2004 and 2006 yet despite this it is not taght in every school in England. And as for Citizenship PGCE's courses it is not widely offered, this link are those being offered from September 2023 Sept 2023 Citizenship Courses Offered
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
13,208
Hertfordshire has middle schools
Only the Buntingford and Royston areas. Berkhamsted had them too but I think they’ve gone to a two-tier system.

The rest of Hertfordshire is two-tier.
 

Magdalia

Established Member
Joined
1 Jan 2022
Messages
3,038
Location
The Fens
Only the Buntingford and Royston areas. Berkhamsted had them too but I think they’ve gone to a two-tier system.

The rest of Hertfordshire is two-tier.
Thanks. I knew that the bit of Hertfordshire nearest the Fens had middle schools, but I didn't know that the rest of Hertfordshire was different.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
13,208
Thanks. I knew that the bit of Hertfordshire nearest the Fens had middle schools, but I didn't know that the rest of Hertfordshire was different.
I'm a School Governor in one of the First Schools in the Buntingford/Royston 3-tier area. There is 1 Upper Schools, 2 Middle Schools and around a dozen First Schools. Some of the schools in Royston merged a few years ago to create an all-through school.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top