TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[mayneway]

I was merely trying to correct a misunderstanding based on facts but moving on…


Scania usage at Queens Road should drop markedly over the next week as more MMCs arrive. In the end Queens will have 11263-71, 11504-29 & 11825-8 to replace 15 B9s, 20 Scanias and the 4 “Classic” Enviro 400s.

Should make for a massive improvement at Queen's road one the worst of the current fleet moves on.

Oh no there is shortage of buses in Tranche 2 and We must allow Stagecoach to start using the 50 Enviro400CiTY ordered for Tranche 3 for a Tranche 2 issue as this is now TfGM issue depsite TfGM isnt incharge for the lack of buses that Bus Operators can't provide for its services... It'll only fund on what needs to be funded and anything else would be down to bus operators...

I don’t want to get bogged down in the nitty gritty here, and I’m not really sure what your involvement in the industry in Manchester actually is but let me tell you something…. TFGM do not know their bum from their elbow!
They can’t even provide staff with adequate uniform!!

As I understand it the contracts won by each of the larger operators stipulated that TFGM would provide a certain number of vehicle's for each depot and the operator would supply the rest. TFGM have struggled to source enough vehicles for Tranche 3 hence why vehicles originally destined to be withdrawn and scrapped are now being forced on Metroline at Hyde road.

 

[Class 466]

Should make for a massive improvement at Queen's road one the worst of the current fleet moves on.

Certainly should! I just hope they don’t all end up on 67/100 most of the time as they seem to gravitate to those two a lot of the time

 

[mbonwick]

Oh no there is shortage of buses in Tranche 2 and We must allow Stagecoach to start using the 50 Enviro400CiTY ordered for Tranche 3 for a Tranche 2 issue as this is now TfGM issue depsite TfGM isnt incharge for the lack of buses that Bus Operators can't provide for its services... It'll only fund on what needs to be funded and anything else would be down to bus operators...

You've just shown how little you understand the fanchising setup, so I'd suggest you tone it down rather than being so rude to those more familiar with the contracts side of things.
There is no shortage* at Tranche 2 depots, the new vehicles are coming in solely to allow enablement for Tranche 3 (Scanias and B9s to be stood down for servicing/familiarisation etc). As this is TfGM replacing TfGM assets, it is perfectly within State Aid rules, as it gives no advantage to private business.

As has been said, those E400City at Oldham are part of the 50 TfGM order for Stockport. It's fairly obvious they weren't ordered by Stagecoach, as they've never ordered the E40D/E400City combination and there's no reason for them to have done so.

Incidentally, you can't rely on a FOI reply from August as gospel truth - we know the plan has materially changed several times since then, and even when it was published the response was known to be rather vague and ambiguous (if I'm being cynical I'd say that's deliberate - it answers exactly the question that was asked and nothing else!)

(*except the usual short term breakdowns etc)

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Why has gnw 6233 BF62 JYR not been in service

 

[citybus2500]

As I understand it the contracts won by each of the larger operators stipulated that TFGM would provide a certain number of vehicle's for each depot and the operator would supply the rest. TFGM have struggled to source enough vehicles for Tranche 3 hence why vehicles originally destined to be withdrawn and scrapped are now being forced on Metroline at Hyde road.

It isn't that TfGM have struggled to source enough vehicles, it is that one particular supplier has failed to deliver 170 of them! So things are having to change to make up for this significant failure to deliver as per contract.

So yes, there will be buses staying that will be leaving Manchester later rather than sooner, but I'm not they will be "withdrawn and scrapped".

 

[mbonwick]

It isn't that TfGM have struggled to source enough vehicles, it is that one particular supplier has failed to deliver 170 of them! So things are having to change to make up for this significant failure to deliver as per contract.

That's unfair on Volvo. The majority of the delay with the BZLs has been TfGM's inability to come up with a strategy to replace and/or electrify Stockport depot, and all the resultant negotiating and hand-wringing over the ZEBRA funding. You can't expect Volvo to build a product when they don't know if they'll get paid! And it was said last year that a lot of the delivery 'can-kicking' was being done by Stagecoach/TfGM, i.e. they were telling Volvo not to start build.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Thought I'd have abit of a tidy up of non Stagecoach bus movements at Go NorthWest.

Arriving in from First Manchester are Merc/Mellors:

WR24 BBJ/K to become 5301/2

Along with presumed newbie WX74 SZL to become 5303.

All 3 to run from Denton depot.

B7 6177 has been repainted out of Bee Network livery and into full GNW blue/grey to operate schools at Denton also, 6178 is also expected to move across in due course.

5101 has landed at Bolton for prep for Denton too.

Also incoming, this time from Brighton&Hove:

Volvo B5LH/WrightBus

BF62 UXH/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/S/T to become 3081-90. Approx half in GNW blue/grey and the rest will run in B&H red and cream (fully debranded) livery but with GNW names and fleetnumbers until the new year when they can be released for painting at Bolton.

New Electroliner deliveries at Bolton are upto 2117 currently, with work to finish the new charging points almost complete.

I *think* that's about it for now... phew...

 

[Park47515]

Does anyone know if there is any refurb for the LX60 batch of Gemini 2 due?

 

[Fox192]

Does anyone know if there is any refurb for the LX60 batch of Gemini 2 due?

I thought they might be planning to cascade them out of Manchester at some point in the near future

 

[Andyh82]

I’m curious to know how First have managed to release two Mellors, have they realised they’ve got too many small buses so will keep running a few more Streetlites instead?

 

[darylyates17]

I’m curious to know how First have managed to release two Mellors, have they realised they’ve got too many small buses so will keep running a few more Streetlites instead?

Must be TfGM owned so their decision to move them.

 

[M60lad]

Considering First have lost 2 Mellors what if anything will replace them? Or do they have enough vehicles in the fleet to cover?

 

[Ace Of Pacer]

Thought I'd have abit of a tidy up of non Stagecoach bus movements at Go NorthWest.

Arriving in from First Manchester are Merc/Mellors:

WR24 BBJ/K to become 5301/2

Along with presumed newbie WX74 SZL to become 5303.

All 3 to run from Denton depot.

B7 6177 has been repainted out of Bee Network livery and into full GNW blue/grey to operate schools at Denton also, 6178 is also expected to move across in due course.

5101 has landed at Bolton for prep for Denton too.

Also incoming, this time from Brighton&Hove:

Volvo B5LH/WrightBus

BF62 UXH/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/S/T to become 3081-90. Approx half in GNW blue/grey and the rest will run in B&H red and cream (fully debranded) livery but with GNW names and fleetnumbers until the new year when they can be released for painting at Bolton.

New Electroliner deliveries at Bolton are upto 2117 currently, with work to finish the new charging points almost complete.

I *think* that's about it for now... phew...

And to summarise the Denton allocation from 5 January:

Tameside A Small contract (11 PVR)
5204-5209 (new E200 MMCs from TfGM order)
5301-5303 (new/almost new Merc Mellors)
5053-5055 (Solos ex Wigan)
5101 (short E200 ex Wigan)
= 13

T3 Schools (23 PVR)
3081-3090 (ex Brighton B5 Hybrid)
3274-3277 (B9 GNW internal cascade)
4023-4025, 4041-4045 (E200 GNW internal cascade)
6177-6178 (B7 GNW internal cascade)
6226,6227,6229 (Citaro GNW internal cascade)
= 27

Some further B9s, released from Bolton/Heywood fleet by Electroliners, lined up as additional contingency if required.

 

[Leyland Bus]

And to summarise the Denton allocation from 5 January:

Tameside A Small contract (11 PVR)
5204-5209 (new E200 MMCs from TfGM order)
5301-5303 (new/almost new Merc Mellors)
5053-5055 (Solos ex Wigan)
5101 (short E200 ex Wigan)
= 13

T3 Schools (23 PVR)
3081-3090 (ex Brighton B5 Hybrid)
3274-3277 (B9 GNW internal cascade)
4023-4025, 4041-4045 (E200 GNW internal cascade)
6177-6178 (B7 GNW internal cascade)
6226,6227,6229 (Citaro GNW internal cascade)
= 27

Some further B9s, released from Bolton/Heywood fleet by Electroliners, lined up as additional contingency if required.

Many thanks, I knew I'd forgotten some!

Merry Christmas!!

 

[BlitzFan87]

Can anyone explain why first bus is using their vehicles on some Stagecoach services

 

[StagecoachBus1]

Can anyone explain why first bus is using their vehicles on some Stagecoach services

On which services?

 

[Fin447]

First are basically doing Stagecoach a favour by running the late work on their behalf on the last day before T3

 

[mayneway]

First are basically doing Stagecoach a favour by running the late work on their behalf on the last day before T3

Nothing really to do with stagecoach.
Stagecoach services end at midnight and Metroline services begin at 4am so TFGM are using First to operate some services during the gap.

 

[Andyh82]

This was all covered in the Bee Network ‘services’ thread

I thought the poster was on about Stagecoach services today

 

[py_megapixel]

I thought the poster was on about Stagecoach services today

Stagecoach today had only two buses out, just enough to provide an hourly service in each direction on route 43 (presumably to avoid completely cutting off the hospitals and the airport).

Were those actually run by First? Bustimes suggests both of the buses were Enviro400s owned by Stagecoach, which would imply the service was being run by them in essentially the normal fashion (just with many fewer buses)

 

[mayneway]

Stagecoach today had only two buses out, just enough to provide an hourly service in each direction on route 43 (presumably to avoid completely cutting off the hospitals and the airport).

Were those actually run by First? Bustimes suggests both of the buses were Enviro400s owned by Stagecoach, which would imply the service was being run by them in essentially the normal fashion (just with many fewer buses)

No the 43 was run by Sharston depot. The original poster is talking about the 5th January when First will be providing services for several hours during the crossover.

 

[M60lad]

Which Bee Network Operator/Depot is due to get some Fiat Orion Mellor bodied minibuses? Only seen a picture of one in full Bee Network livery on Social Media this morning and the photo is obviously took inside Mellor's at Rochdale as there's a Bee Network Mellor Strata parked right behind it.

 

[StagecoachBus1]

Which Bee Network Operator/Depot is due to get some Fiat Orion Mellor bodied minibuses? Only seen a picture of one in full Bee Network livery on Social Media this morning and the photo is obviously took inside Mellor's at Rochdale as there's a Bee Network Mellor Strata parked right behind it.

There are only 2 apparently and they are going to Diamond, for use on service 280. The normal Mellor Stratas are too high for the very low bridge in Dunham Town, and so requires either a mini solo SR or a Fiat Orion Mellor, the 2 vehicle types Belle Vue used to use

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

There are only 2 apparently and they are going to Diamond, for use on service 280. The normal Mellor Stratas are too high for the very low bridge in Dunham Town, and so requires either a mini solo SR or a Fiat Orion Mellor, the 2 vehicle types Belle Vue used to use

Didn’t WOB used to operate full size Wright Cadets under that bridge when the 5 ran down there, as well as E200MMCs more recently?

 

[Tim33160]

Didn’t WOB used to operate full size Wright Cadets under that bridge when the 5 ran down there, as well as E200MMCs more recently?

They did - the buses fitted but the triangular height restriction (advice) was replaced by a circular (restriction) sign
Thus they were prohibited.
18 months later - after five mile diversions via Partington and Sinderland, a small bus contract was let to Bellevue as the 280 with a solo
Driver shortages at Belle Vue saw Diamond take over the contract from 4pm Friday 6th Dec - and they took the Solo as well

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikemcniven/54188976068
Diamond Bus North West (Eccles depot) YJ16DXK 20746

 

[BlitzFan87]

On which services?

On services 43, 86, 103, 142, 192 201, 203, 216 and 219

 

[BlitzFan87]

If you check bustimes.org you will find those services

 

[StagecoachBus1]

On services 43, 86, 103, 142, 192 201, 203, 216 and 219

I know, I was just slightly confused about the meaning of your question, the answer to which has been explained above anyway.

 

[TheSmiths82]

Can anyone explain why first bus is using their vehicles on some Stagecoach services

Is this relating to the night bus service on t

I know, I was just slightly confused about the meaning of your question, the answer to which has been explained above anyway.

What will happen with route training for these routes? It seems a bit odd that they will only be doing it for one night, it will be interesting to see what buses they use though! I am guessing a few of the drivers will already be very familiar with the Stagecoach routes anyway.

 

[BlitzFan87]

Is this relating to the night bus service on t


What will happen with route training for these routes? It seems a bit odd that they will only be doing it for one night, it will be interesting to see what buses they use though! I am guessing a few of the drivers will already be very familiar with the Stagecoach routes anyway.

The buses that they will use will more likely be E400s