TfW 175 shortages

[craigybagel]

No easy solution but TFW customers as Arriva have been looked upon as second class for YEARS!!! Wales is treated second class end of and the metro delays are pathetic it is the usual 'wait and see things will change' clap trap. Does not seem like it at this moment in time!

So you don't have a solution.

It isn't hindsight it is just a basic expectation that a transport authority and its operating company should be able to provide the basic competencies like maintaining its own train fleet. The 175s foibles are well known so you'd think that the current operator would have been aware that extra care should be taken.

Maintenance of the 175s, like many other rolling stock fleets up and down the country, has been contracted out to a third party since day 1.

 

[tomuk]

So you don't have a solution.

Maintenance of the 175s, like many other rolling stock fleets up and down the country, has been contracted out to a third party since day 1.

I know the maintenance is contracted out but the contracting party still need to have proper oversight of the contractor such that appropriate levels of safety and availability are provided. The ORR seem to think TfW have a case to answer as they have issued them with an improvement notice.

As the ORR notice says

You as the Train Operator have failed to ensure so far as is reasonably
practicable that passengers and employees are not exposed to the risk of harm. You have not
implemented effective arrangements for the organisation, control and monitoring for
maintenance of the class 175 fleet needed to ensure the safe operation of the transport
system

 

[craigybagel]

I know the maintenance is contracted out but the contracting party still need to have proper oversight of the contractor such that appropriate levels of safety and availability are provided. The ORR seem to think TfW have a case to answer as they have issued them with an improvement notice.

Like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Mistakes were made, both decades ago and in more recent times, and they're being acted on to stop them from happening again.

Getting back to today and I stand behind my original point - if there's some massive error that TfW are making that's resulting in the 150s having to be used on inappropriate routes, by all means point them out and offer solutions. But if you're going to suggest that things should be done better, surely other people have the right to ask how?

 

[tomuk]

Like I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Mistakes were made, both decades ago and in more recent times, and they're being acted on to stop them from happening again.

Getting back to today and I stand behind my original point - if there's some massive error that TfW are making that's resulting in the 150s having to be used on inappropriate routes, by all means point them out and offer solutions. But if you're going to suggest that things should be done better, surely other people have the right to ask how?

I'm a lone poster on a internet forum why should I be required to suggest solutions. TfW are a multi million pound government funded transport authority \ transport provider they've dropped the ball and should be held responsible.

 

[Class15]

I'm a lone poster on an internet forum why should I be required to suggest solutions. TfW are a multi million pound government funded transport authority \ transport provider they've dropped the ball and should be held responsible.

Good point.

 

[samrammstein]

I went past Chester D.M.U.D. this afternoon and 175008 and 175101 have finally been moved from the cleaning roads adjacent to the Merseyrail lines. Not sure if they've gone into the shed or somewhere else. It did seem rather bad PR having two toasted units on full public display for a couple of weeks so they must've been waiting for capacity in the shed perhaps.

 

[craigybagel]

I'm a lone poster on a internet forum why should I be required to suggest solutions.

Funnily enough it wasn't you I asked to suggest solutions anyway.

There are no easy solutions - if there were, TfW would be using them. But it's pretty pointless sitting here saying things should be better, without saying how.

TfW are a multi million pound government funded transport authority \ transport provider they've dropped the ball and should be held responsible.

What makes you think they aren't?

In any case, I would suggest it's better to move on before the entire thread gets derailed.

 

[Topological]

Not let any units of lease?

Ensure that there are sufficient maintenance locations for the fleet that is needed on a day to day basis? (I do not know exactly how easy this is but it should have been possible. With the right will there is enough land at Chester that could be repurposed for tracks temporarily in the way they do when there are major incidents like the problem on the SWML in the spring.).

 

[craigybagel]

Not let any units of lease?

Weren't the units sent off lease before the rest were withdrawn? In any case, they'd only end up as part of the queue waiting for the replacement parts to fix the design flaw that left the units more at risk of catching fire

Ensure that there are sufficient maintenance locations for the fleet that is needed on a day to day basis? (I do not know exactly how easy this is but it should have been possible. With the right will there is enough land at Chester that could be repurposed for tracks temporarily in the way they do when there are major incidents like the problem on the SWML in the spring.).

Works already taking place to increase the amount of space for stabling units and carrying out light maintenance at various locations throughout the network.

 

[Jez]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You could as much blame Alsthom and FNW 20 years ago for the design flaw that was exacerbated by the maintenance issues.

My point is what is the magic solution that TfW can do right now to make things better? It's all very well saying things are unacceptable, but what are the alternatives?

The point is customers are paying good money for what is if we are being totally honest a poor service. 2 carriages simply isn't enough on most routes.

I travelled from Port Talbot to Newport this afternoon. 1218 from Port Talbot was a 150 and standing room only. So uncomfortable, I decided to switch to the Gloucester train at Bridgend. I'd have needed to change at Cardiff anyway so decided to take a gamble on actually getting a seat. A gamble that paid off despite this train now formed of a pair of 153s not a 3 car 170. It filled up by the time it got to Cardiff. On return from Cardiff also a 150 which was full and standing. Very uncomfortable although I did have a seat. Infact by far the best journey I had today was the Cross-country 170 I rode from Newport to Cardiff. Plenty of room, a table seat to myself! Shame it couldn't have gone to Swansea!

Today with the engineering work on several lines including Swansea to Carmarthen and North of Radyr they really should have stepped up and formed the cardiff to Swansea services with 4 carriages not 2. I don't get why they didn't there must have been spare capacity today.

I'm a lone poster on a internet forum why should I be required to suggest solutions. TfW are a multi million pound government funded transport authority \ transport provider they've dropped the ball and should be held responsible.

I totally agree. It shouldnt be up to the customers to suggest a solution! We were promised things would get better when TFW took over. Obviously Covid has delayed some of that but that all started 3 years ago and we have moved on from Covid. The service is worst than ever at the moment.

Im not even bothered if a 150 turns up if im being totally honest. The 150s have grown on me a lot in recent months when ive travelled on them more due to the lack of 175s, What bothers me more is the lack of seats when the train turn up. A 2 carriage 150 is simply not enough capacity. Id rather a 4 car 150 turns up over a 2 car 175 if it means I get a seat.

 

[Topological]

Weren't the units sent off lease before the rest were withdrawn? In any case, they'd only end up as part of the queue waiting for the replacement parts to fix the design flaw that left the units more at risk of catching fire

Works already taking place to increase the amount of space for stabling units and carrying out light maintenance at various locations throughout the network.

EDIT: The first one off lease was 175002, which came off lease at the start of March as per the previous page of this thread.

The second was much more recent and certainly after the trouble started. Far better they be in a queue and back in service rather than off lease. We are still looking at a long time until the 197s are on the Marches (and it feels like until the Mk 4 sets can run all of their diagrams).

I am pleased to hear that there is more work going on, hopefully that will help.

One thing which did impress me today was that the 150 I was on as the 10:30 from Manchester was advertised as first stop Crewe. That should always happen as there is a local train to Wilmslow just behind anyway. The only problem was that when the train stopped to do pick up at Stockport the train announced it was in Crewe, followed by Shrewsbury when we stopped at Wilmslow to pick up and Ludlow when we actually arrived at Crewe. Eventually the scrolling information screens were switched off and manual announcements done. That particular 150 must just tick off stops by the times the doors open rather than any GPS.

 

[Bikeman78]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You could as much blame Alsthom and FNW 20 years ago for the design flaw that was exacerbated by the maintenance issues.

My point is what is the magic solution that TfW can do right now to make things better? It's all very well saying things are unacceptable, but what are the alternatives?

It's not really hindsight. Plenty of people predicted that the transfer of Chester depot to CAF would not end well. The rot set in within days. But yes you are right. Given the current situation, there is no practical alternative to using 150s. To their credit, they have held up very well, despite being worked very hard on the mainline for months, they very rarely fail. They don't even lose much time anymore.

 

[anthony263]

It's not really hindsight. Plenty of people predicted that the transfer of Chester depot to CAF would not end well. The rot set in within days. But yes you are right. Given the current situation, there is no practical alternative to using 150s. To their credit, they have held up very well, despite being worked very hard on the mainline for months, they very rarely fail. They don't even lose much time anymore.

The 150s will be missed when they leave TFW. GWR are after a few examples and I suspect a couple of other TOCs will see if they can get a few.

 

[Jez]

I noticed yesterday all.3 170s were out. Two on Ebbw Vale one on Maesteg.

Despite Swansea to Carmarthen being blocked they still only managed a single 150 on the Swansea to Cardiff services whilst the ones that went through to Manchester did see s few 175s.

The 150s will be missed when they leave TFW. GWR are after a few examples and I suspect a couple of other TOCs will see if they can get a few.

I agree the 150s have grown on me recently. They might be noisy but they have certainly helped TFW in recent months.

 

[Philip]

A few Manchester-Llandudno services have had 175s during the last week.

 

[craigybagel]

A few Manchester-Llandudno services have had 175s during the last week.

There's not much spare capacity in the 197 fleet at the moment - between the ones in passenger service and the ones being used in training (which has really gone up a gear in the last few weeks) it doesn't take much to need another unit to step in. Luckily we've got more 175s around to help.

 

[Wrexham12]

There's not much spare capacity in the 197 fleet at the moment - between the ones in passenger service and the ones being used in training (which has really gone up a gear in the last few weeks) it doesn't take much to need another unit to step in. Luckily we've got more 175s around to help.

Why has 197 unit acceptance stopped? Surely it would be better to start accepting units and running them in couples so when the capacity is needed they are ready?

 

[craigybagel]

Why has 197 unit acceptance stopped? Surely it would be better to start accepting units and running them in couples so when the capacity is needed they are ready?

Can't comment publicly on that one, but it would indeed help. Hopefully it'll step up again soon.

 

[Jez]

Looks like things are starting to improve - todays departures from Manchester to South Wales

0627 Cardiff Central - MK4 (4 cars)
0730 Carmarthen -175 (3 car)
0830 Cardiff Central - 150 (2 cars)
0930 Carmarthen - 175 (3 cars)
1030 Cardiff Central - 153x2 (2 cars)
1130 Carmarthen - 150x2 (4 cars)
1230 Cardiff Central - 175 (3 cars)
1330 Tenby - 175 (3 cars)
1430 Cardiff Central - MK4 (4 cars)
1530 Carmarthen - 150 (2 cars)
1630 Swansea - 175 (2 cars)
1730 Cardiff Central - 158 (2 cars)
1830 Cardiff Central - 153x2 (2 cars)
1930 Cardiff Central 175 (3 cars)

So 3 workings formed of 4 carriages, 5 formed of 3 carriages and the rest 2 cars.

The workings from West Wales that don't go to Manchester see quite a few 175s including 4 consecutive TFW trains formed of 175s between Swansea to Cardiff 1400, 1448 (to Manchester), 1505 (to Chester) and 1601, The 1505 is 2 car the others 3 cars according to RTT.

Good to see more 175s and quite a few 3 or 4 car workings on the marches. Even the 1130 they managed 4 cars formed with a pair of 150s.

Edit - there are a couple of 175s on Cardiff-Holyhead services too . Unsure if any others in North Wales, looked to be all 197s from a quick look at RTT.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

175113 reported back in service today, currently working 2V08 Shrewsbury to Carmarthen via HOWL! Presumably to rotate stock whilst Swansea - Llanelli is closed.

 

[Jez]

Good to see so many 175s back in service again. Hopefully this bodes well for the timetable change. Also when they do need a Sprinter a few seem to be 158s which are also suitable for long distance despite only being 2 car.

Edit 1510. I've just seen a 6 car formation passing Neath. 2 x 3 car 175.

 

[Topological]

2 x 153 on the 06:38 from Swansea yesterday was not great, especially with GWR on strike and the 05:36 cancelled.

Had a 158 today on the 10:30 from Manchester to Cardiff, as said it was cosy at 2-car but it kept time and is definitely a better environment than we have been getting of late. 158 on the 14:00 Cardiff to Swansea was a bit busier, again without GWR. Last week the same service was near empty.

 

[RailWonderer]

I'm headed to Abergavenny next week, on the long distance services to Manchester and Holyhead it seems to be a mix of Mk4s, 150s, 153s, 158s and 175s. are there any more 175s likely to be in service? I'm dreading a 150 or 153.

 

[Jez]

This one isn't booked for a 175 but worth noting there was a single 153 on the 1712 Swansea to Cardiff (Swanline). Its usually a pair of 153s or a 150. Hopefully all Swanlines will be at least 2 carriages when it returns as a stand alone service with the timetable change..

2 x 153 on the 06:38 from Swansea yesterday was not great, especially with GWR on strike and the 05:36 cancelled.

Had a 158 today on the 10:30 from Manchester to Cardiff, as said it was cosy at 2-car but it kept time and is definitely a better environment than we have been getting of late. 158 on the 14:00 Cardiff to Swansea was a bit busier, again without GWR. Last week the same service was near empty.

I've notice the 0536 is somewhat unreliable from.week to week. It was removed from.the timetable this week but returned this morning formed of a 158. I guess it's removed often due to lack of train crew given it starts in Swansea now when it used to start in Carmarthen and went along the district line.

 

[voyagerdude220]

175113 reported back in service today, currently working 2V08 Shrewsbury to Carmarthen via HOWL! Presumably to rotate stock whilst Swansea - Llanelli is closed.

It seems to have reached it's destination 162 minutes late today. I don't know what went wrong.

 

[Topological]

This one isn't booked for a 175 but worth noting there was a single 153 on the 1712 Swansea to Cardiff (Swanline). Its usually a pair of 153s or a 150. Hopefully all Swanlines will be at least 2 carriages when it returns as a stand alone service with the timetable change..


I've notice the 0536 is somewhat unreliable from.week to week. It was removed from.the timetable this week but returned this morning formed of a 158. I guess it's removed often due to lack of train crew given it starts in Swansea now when it used to start in Carmarthen and went along the district line.

That single 153 sounds a bit worrying with no GWR on the line today.

The 0536 is my train of choice for going north but there have been times I have had to take the 0528 GWR to get the train when it starts from Cardiff. Forms off Cardiff Canton now (arrives Swansea at 0505ish) and tends not to get a unit on RTT until it actually sets off. Of course it is supposed to be a MK4 but we are not at that point yet.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I'm headed to Abergavenny next week, on the long distance services to Manchester and Holyhead it seems to be a mix of Mk4s, 150s, 153s, 158s and 175s. are there any more 175s likely to be in service? I'm dreading a 150 or 153.

Do you know which service you'll be on? I may be able to give you a rough estimate of the unit you can expect...

 

[Sion John]

It seems to have reached it's destination 162 minutes late today. I don't know what went wrong.

There was a level crossing problem in Llandovery big one it sounds and in Llandeilo 2M10 couldn't wait allday so 175 wanted for it in Llandeilo

 

[voyagerdude220]

There was a level crossing problem in Llandovery big one it sounds and in Llandeilo 2M10 couldn't wait allday so 175 wanted for it in Llandeilo

Thank you.

 

[Topological]

I notice some going missing again from the Marches today. Does anyone know what has happened to reduce the booked allocations versus what RTT was showing last night?