TFW Rail Services to be taken in house by Welsh Government

[Dragon Breath]

Hi I’m in the conductor talent pool with an estimated start date of jan/feb 2021. I’m awaiting the WG announcement tomorrow (Thursday 29th) which will hopefully make the situation clearer and easier for me to understand.

What’s the announcement? Not seen this

 

[Lynette Hill]

What’s the announcement? Not seen this

Maybe I misread the article but I thought it said an announcement was due tomorrow...? I’m trying to figure out if resigning from my permanent job and starting with TFW will be the best move with the changes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Cardiff123]

What’s the announcement? Not seen this

Maybe I misread the article but I thought it said an announcement was due tomorrow...?

The announcement regarding TfW taking over operations from Keolis Amey was last Thursday 22nd October.

Here's the links for anyone that missed them:

Written Statement: Future of Rail update (22 October 2020) | GOV.WALES

Ken Skates MS, Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales

gov.wales

Welsh Government to take rail franchise under public control | GOV.WALES

In the face of dramatic falls in passenger numbers Welsh Government has decided to bring the Wales and Borders rail franchise under public control.

gov.wales

Transport For Wales News - Home

News from Transport For Wales

news.tfwrail.wales

 

[mstrwvr]

I'm due to start with TfW as a Trainee Conductor in Chester at the end of November. With everything that's going on, I too was pretty worried about giving up my existing job to take up this role, but have decided to go for it. I've read in multiple places that TfW are desperately short of train crew, especially in the north. Covid will have massively slowed down recruitment over the last six months, so we have a situation where they were desperately short, and then people will have been leaving roles at the usual rate, without TfW being able to replace them due to Covid, meaning a lot of potential vacancies.
It takes about 6 months to train new staff for train crew roles, so if the company want to have a decent service in the second half of 2021 they really do need to recruit now.
Also, I take solace in the fact that, despite everything that's going on, TfW are still actively recruiting. Anyone in the talent pool should feel reassured by that, I think. The first sign of trouble will be a recruitment freeze, I imagine.
Maybe I'm just being optimistic/naive, but I hope not.

 

[sd0733]

I certainly wouldn't worry about joining tfw in an operational role. On the ground there is unlikely that there will be many noticable changes, any extra staff would firstly see off any train crew shortage cancellations, then allow training to build up on routes and new units, then get rid of some of the rest day work weve been relying on to anywhere near cover the timetable. Its been a long term aim to bring Sunday inside the working week so that would also use a lot more staff.
Obviously nothing can ever be said for certain, which is the same for pretty much any job but even if there were long term cuts to the timetable it would highly unlikely lead to any compulsory job losses.
Id certainly recommend tfw as an employer and youll enjoy it and never look back.

 

[mstrwvr]

I certainly wouldn't worry about joining tfw in an operational role. On the ground there is unlikely that there will be many noticable changes, any extra staff would firstly see off any train crew shortage cancellations, then allow training to build up on routes and new units, then get rid of some of the rest day work weve been relying on to anywhere near cover the timetable. Its been a long term aim to bring Sunday inside the working week so that would also use a lot more staff.
Obviously nothing can ever be said for certain, which is the same for pretty much any job but even if there were long term cuts to the timetable it would highly unlikely lead to any compulsory job losses.
Id certainly recommend tfw as an employer and youll enjoy it and never look back.

Very reassuring, thank you.

 

[Masterk]

I certainly wouldn't worry about joining tfw in an operational role. On the ground there is unlikely that there will be many noticable changes, any extra staff would firstly see off any train crew shortage cancellations, then allow training to build up on routes and new units, then get rid of some of the rest day work weve been relying on to anywhere near cover the timetable. Its been a long term aim to bring Sunday inside the working week so that would also use a lot more staff.
Obviously nothing can ever be said for certain, which is the same for pretty much any job but even if there were long term cuts to the timetable it would highly unlikely lead to any compulsory job losses.
Id certainly recommend tfw as an employer and youll enjoy it and never look back.

That's really reassuring, thank you. I've been told that I'll be on one of the courses early next year, subject to a medical of course. Everyone I've spoken to about tfw has nothing but great things to say so I'm really looking forward to a career there.

 

[arfortune]

The North Wales Metro is something of a misnomer anyway. It's really a plan to improve connectivity between North East Wales and the North West of England who's economies are pretty integrated. It's a sensible ambition but it doesn't do anything much for anywhere west of Afon Conwy

It did start off as a NE Wales metro, but scope has now increased to cover the whole of North Wales. There lots of plans for service improvement west of Conwy; am managing the projects now!

 

[Llandudno]

It did start off as a NE Wales metro, but scope has now increased to cover the whole of North Wales. There lots of plans for service improvement west of Conwy; am managing the projects now!

Sounds promising, provided you get a decent budget to work with!

Will you be ‘leaking’ any proposals for forum members?!?

It did start off as a NE Wales metro, but scope has now increased to cover the whole of North Wales. There lots of plans for service improvement west of Conwy; am managing the projects now!

Perhaps you could look at improving westbound connections at Chester for north Wales residents travelling back from Liverpool and Manchester, some really long waits mid/late evening and from the new timetable the last train from Manchester just misses the 0040 Chester to Holyhead!

 

[Energy]

am managing the projects now!

Quietly mentions electrification...

 

[arfortune]

I can't leak any conclusions but the studies cover a whole improvement along the North Wales Coast. We're looking at more services, incl. local stoppers, regional and national connections that eventually tie in with HS2 and Northern Powerhouse rail plans, and the optimal mix and timings of these. Other aspects include where new stations could be put, lines reconnected and reopened, and how best we can embrace the opportunities for decarbonisation.
Obviously this is medium - long term stuff but we're also looking to see how we improve transport in the short term.
Will keep allposted as and when I can

 

[Llandudno]

I can't leak any conclusions but the studies cover a whole improvement along the North Wales Coast. We're looking at more services, incl. local stoppers, regional and national connections that eventually tie in with HS2 and Northern Powerhouse rail plans, and the optimal mix and timings of these. Other aspects include where new stations could be put, lines reconnected and reopened, and how best we can embrace the opportunities for decarbonisation.
Obviously this is medium - long term stuff but we're also looking to see how we improve transport in the short term.
Will keep allposted as and when I can

Intriguing!!

More interested in the ‘short term’ improvements, a clockface, regular interval timetable along the north Wales coast and better connections at Chester, would be a start..

...as how many times in the past have we been promised long term grandiose improvements and nothing happens, or watered down alternatives eventually get implemented.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I can't leak any conclusions but the studies cover a whole improvement along the North Wales Coast. We're looking at more services, incl. local stoppers, regional and national connections that eventually tie in with HS2 and Northern Powerhouse rail plans, and the optimal mix and timings of these. Other aspects include where new stations could be put, lines reconnected and reopened, and how best we can embrace the opportunities for decarbonisation.
Obviously this is medium - long term stuff but we're also looking to see how we improve transport in the short term.
Will keep allposted as and when I can

Does this have any connection with the map put out by the Welsh Government earlier this year?

 

[Llandudno]

Does this have any connection with the map put out by the Welsh Government earlier this year?

I think this map should be in the Speculative Ideas thread...!

Trains to Amlwch.
Caernarfon to Porthmadog
4 trains per hour from Wrexham to Liverpool via Bidston
Llandudno to Crewe in 60 minutes
Holyhead to Chester in 60 minutes

Redoubling Chester to Wrexham, they tried to do that a couple of years ago and only managed 3/4 of it!

Totally absurd!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Redoubling Chester to Wrexham, they tried to do that a couple of years ago and only managed 3/4 of it

Less than half, actually (5 miles out of 10, with the old track and new junction at Rossett still at the old line speed (60mph).

 

[Cardiff123]

It's a shame how infrastructure work is so expensive when done by network rail, plus always takes far to much time.

Which is exactly why Welsh Govt and TfW fought so hard to take ownership and control of the 'Core Valley lines' north of Cardiff Queen St off Network Rail, and then manage and contract out the electrification and upgrade work of these lines themsleves.

Welsh Govt continue to shout very loudly that all rail infrastructure in Wales should be fully devolved, and quite rightly so.

 

[Llanigraham]

Apparently Network Rail say Gresford bank is too unstable to add another line, it used to be doubled up though !

They wasted £43 million I heard on the work they did on the line, I am baffled how they could spend so much money & do so little doubling up of the line.

It should be redoubled the whole length of the line, with just single over the A483 then back to double line with higher line speeds.

It's a shame how infrastructure work is so expensive when done by network rail, plus always takes far to much time.

Have you considered that the problem with Gresford Bank is that in an area of instability, caused by the close proximity of the old Gresford Colliery?
Any work to stabilise an old colliery is going to be expensive and extensive.

 

[Dai Corner]

Which is exactly why Welsh Govt and TfW fought so hard to take ownership and control of the 'Core Valley lines' north of Cardiff Queen St off Network Rail, and then manage and contract out the electrification and upgrade work of these lines themsleves.

Welsh Govt continue to shout very loudly that all rail infrastructure in Wales should be fully devolved, and quite rightly so.

Why is this going to be cheaper than Network Rail? Will contractors give WG lower rates? Is the work being done to a lower standard?

 

[Cardiff123]

Why is this going to be cheaper than Network Rail? Will contractors give WG lower rates? Is the work being done to a lower standard?

Welsh Govt took the decision to take responsibility away from NR for upgrading the CVL after the massive cost overspend and delays with GWML electrification and NR's inability to stay within budget with the Ebbw Vale re-doubling project, which as is known, had to be abandoned after NR blew the allocated budget pretty quickly.

So to answer your Qs. 1) WG took the decision to upgrade the CVL after the failiure of the projects mentioned above and didn't trust NR to stsy within budget after GWML and Ebbw Vale failiures.
2) No idea, but there's a well known, finite budget available for the CVL, we've already seen the CVL re-scoped several times to stay within budget.
3) No, it's all being done to Network Rail heavy rail standards, even though the CVL through Pontypridd will be 100% tram-train operation, so in theory there's no need for more expensive HR standards to be applied to these lines (but you already know this I suspect )

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why is this going to be cheaper than Network Rail? Will contractors give WG lower rates? Is the work being done to a lower standard?

As I understand it, NR contracted out the Wrexham-Chester work (including the initial assessment and design) as it wasn't part of their strategic plan.
They also ran into signalling and level crossing issues in the implementation and needed several blockades for the work.
The £43 million was what NR originally quoted for the whole work, and what WG paid. The truncated project probably cost a great deal more than that.
By contrast, the Loughor redoubling at about the same time seemed to go smoothly and was fully delivered.

 

[Dai Corner]

Welsh Govt took the decision to take responsibility away from NR for upgrading the CVL after the massive cost overspend and delays with GWML electrification and NR's inability to stay within budget with the Ebbw Vale re-doubling project, which as is known, had to be abandoned after NR blew the allocated budget pretty quickly.

So to answer your Qs. 1) WG took the decision to upgrade the CVL after the failiure of the projects mentioned above and didn't trust NR to stsy within budget after GWML and Ebbw Vale failiures.
2) No idea, but there's a well known, finite budget available for the CVL, we've already seen the CVL re-scoped several times to stay within budget.
3) No, it's all being done to Network Rail heavy rail standards, even though the CVL through Pontypridd will be 100% tram-train operation, so in theory there's no need for more expensive HR standards to be applied to these lines (but you already know this I suspect )

Weren't Amey the lead contractor for GWML electrification as well as for the CVL?

Hopefully they've learned from the former and the latter will be on budget and not have to further de-scoped.

 

[Llanigraham]

I know about the facts you state but my point being it used to be double lined years ago but was single lined, but now it can't be redoubled.

And how many years ago was that?
In those years safety considerations have no doubt altered plus there may well have been further movement from the mine slowly collapsing.
Sorry but just because something "was" in the past doesn't mean it can be now.

 

[anamyd]

James Price in this morning's Senedd Economy, Infrastructure & Skills meeting has stated the date and time for the transfer to Transport for Wales Rail Ltd as being "midnight on the 6th of February" (2021).

 

[adrock1976]

James Price in this morning's Senedd Economy, Infrastructure & Skills meeting has stated the date and time for the transfer to Transport for Wales Rail Ltd as being "midnight on the 6th of February" (2021).

Being as midnight does not belong to a particular day, is this one minute after 23:59 on the 5th, or one minute after 23:59 on the 6th?

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Being as midnight does not belong to a particular day, is this one minute after 23:59 on the 5th, or one minute after 23:59 on the 6th?

Really? The pedantry on this website astounds me. I think we all know exactly what is meant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? The pedantry on this website astounds me. I think we all know exactly what is meant.

To be fair the railway doesn't time trains (publically) for 0000 to avoid that very issue!

 

[pdeaves]

Being as midnight does not belong to a particular day, is this one minute after 23:59 on the 5th, or one minute after 23:59 on the 6th?

When you wake up on 6th the change will have happened. Not ambiguous.

 

[adrock1976]

Really? The pedantry on this website astounds me. I think we all know exactly what is meant.

It was a legitimate and a reasonable question I had asked, which pdeaves has kindly answered in the above post.

 

[anamyd]

I heard in the 25/11/20 Senedd Plenary meeting that the Department for Transport is thinking of transferring the management of Shrewsbury, Chester and Hereford stations from Transport for Wales to presumably the most appropriate English TOC...?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I heard in the 25/11/20 Senedd Plenary meeting that the Department for Transport is thinking of transferring the management of Shrewsbury, Chester and Hereford stations from Transport for Wales to presumably the most appropriate English TOC...?

Chester to Northern and the other two to WMT I guess? I could see the sense in that.