Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[class387]

On platform screens of Bedford and Flitwick

Ok. Thanks!

 

[girothedog]

Just updated the Soft Launch timetable to include all 5 diagrams:

View attachment 27500

Hope the details are correct. If there are any additional diagrams coming, I can add them when they are posted.

Thanks, that's a work of beauty. I know we could work it out from the diagrams posted, but this really simplifies things.

 

[neilm]

Anyone know why one was stopped/broke down at hassocks for 30 mins this afternoon around 5:15?

 

[The Box Photter]

Anyone know why one was stopped/broke down at hassocks for 30 mins this afternoon around 5:15?

It was cancelled just to make my journey home tonight a little longer . 0744 ex Flitwick this morning was cancelled due to "lack of train crew ".

I don't believe them. I think there are some fundamental problems with the units and there's some spin doctoring going on.

 

[The Box Photter]

Someone has tweeted that 1W96 was terminated at HH because the doors wouldn't open.

 

[D365]

I don't believe them. I think there are some fundamental problems with the units and there's some spin doctoring going on.

It can't be! Siemens units are perfect and flawless in every way.

 

[The Box Photter]

It can't be! Siemens units are perfect and flawless in every way.

Unless you're a passenger.

 

[Class377/5]

Folks, can I ask any requests to be done on this thread and not personal messages. I will not be giving out information privately and I am not always able to post here (I do work fully time) in a timely fashion.

Note this is in response a few messages recieves asking for private info and aimed at no-one directly. I want any info I provide to be available for all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Someone has tweeted that 1W96 was terminated at HH because the doors wouldn't open.

Some doors would open. Could be various cause, let's not be so quick to judge on that level of info shall we?

 

[neilm]

It's not the first time the trains have had issues at hassocks I think 700s had problems there before?

 

[The Box Photter]

Folks, can I ask any requests to be done on this thread and not personal messages. I will not be giving out information privately and I am not always able to post here (I do work fully time) in a timely fashion.

Note this is in response a few messages recieves asking for private info and aimed at no-one directly. I want any info I provide to be available for all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Some doors would open. Could be various cause, let's not be so quick to judge on that level of info shall we?

I think a tweet from a passenger who had been stuck on the train and unable to alight because the doors wouldn't open is admissible as evidence.

If you know the "real" reason why Class 700 diagrams aren't being filled by the requisite units, please enlighten us.

There are soft launches and soft launches. GTR trumpet the arrival of their new trains to the press, yet they're still only covering a handful of services. This is a marshmallow launch.

Ironically, I did notice this morning a poster on my 387/1 announcing "Good News for Passengers" then proceeding to outline the salient points of the "new" class 387/1 trains, such as:

- more comfortable seats
- carpeting throughout
- power sockets

How times change.

 

[Fincra5]

I think a tweet from a passenger who had been stuck on the train and unable to alight because the doors wouldn't open is admissible as evidence.

If you know the "real" reason why Class 700 diagrams aren't being filled by the requisite units, please enlighten us.

There are soft launches and soft launches. GTR trumpet the arrival of their new trains to the press, yet they're still only covering a handful of services. This is a marshmallow launch.

Ironically, I did notice this morning a poster on my 387/1 announcing "Good News for Passengers" then proceeding to outline the salient points of the "new" class 387/1 trains, such as:

- more comfortable seats
- carpeting throughout
- power sockets

How times change.

I do wonder how the 700s (in all their shiny glory) introduction has been compared to other units to the region. Something like SDO stopping 12 cars opening at as 12 car platform just shouldn't be an issue!

 

[jon0844]

I was on a 700 that said the rear doors wouldn't open, but when we stopped they did anyway (and the CIS warning screens disappeared).

I put this down to teething problems, but don't think it would be a major problem as it didn't cause any delay. If someone moved down after the warning, I doubt it matters much if they then discover the door did open after all. If they even notice at all!

 

[Nighthawke]

Hopped on one St Pancras to Blackfriars yesterday morning rather than a 319 all the way to EPH. Well it would have been rude not to accept!

Not a long journey to form a full opinion but it did the job - got me from A to B (or STP to BFR at least).

Clean, light, comfortable (short term anyway), and once the masses got off at STP plenty of space. Still a delay with the doors at Farringdon I noted but seemed OK at CTK & BFR.

 

[Sunset route]

From a signallers point of view they are behaving no better or worse than the other new / second hand stock running on the BML when introduced, the only annoying thing is not knowing what train is formed of class 700s because of their restrictions on where they can run.

I've only had three short runs on the cl700s 2X 3 Bridges to Haywards & 1X Gatwick to 3 Bridges, not enough to form any real opinion but the window seats look like the ones to avoid on crowded service a bit like the middle seat in the group of 3 on the 377s.

 

[Class377/5]

I think a tweet from a passenger who had been stuck on the train and unable to alight because the doors wouldn't open is admissible as evidence.

If you know the "real" reason why Class 700 diagrams aren't being filled by the requisite units, please enlighten us.

There are soft launches and soft launches. GTR trumpet the arrival of their new trains to the press, yet they're still only covering a handful of services. This is a marshmallow launch.

Ironically, I did notice this morning a poster on my 387/1 announcing "Good News for Passengers" then proceeding to outline the salient points of the "new" class 387/1 trains, such as:

- more comfortable seats
- carpeting throughout
- power sockets

How times change.

Don't confuse a single tweets saying doors won't with meaning all doors aren't opening. You've made an assumption that just because where that person is, it applies to the whole train (it didn't).

As for why units are filling diagrams, well so far there's be the stock but disprution means it's harder to get things sorted. Especially important when a new fleet is being introduced and you can't train every driver at once.

If you feel a slow roll out is a bad idea, your entitled to that despite what I think. Just not sure how you think you commission 115 trains and train everyone up in a few months while then magically getting all the existing stock sorted in one go. It's very complex with the TOC being required to hold onto stock afterwards meaning you can't do the big bang. Let's get one thing straight, is is one of the largest rolling stock orders ever. The S stock is taking over 4 years to be introduced, from your comments you must believe TfL/Bombardier were crap at rolling the fleet out! Personally, it's called being sensible.

For the record, in terms of coaches the 700s are being introduced three times faster than the 387s, an existing updated design, which was considered accelerated and won an industry award for the introduction.

As for the poster, you do realise they've been on the 387s since their introduction? As for "new", not sure why you've done that as thy were new when he posters were put up. Also I outlines the difference between a TOC and DfT ordered train. (Not to mention the fact the 387 is a 2013 design where as the 700s are a 2008 deign even tho the latter is a full next gen design).

I do wonder how the 700s (in all their shiny glory) introduction has been compared to other units to the region. Something like SDO stopping 12 cars opening at as 12 car platform just shouldn't be an issue!

Well fact the Electrostars still have issues at St Pancras after 5 years is a point ignored by some. Or the introduction of the 313, 377, 450, 09 Tube stock have all been problematic to mention a few off the top of my head. You can only test so far, the interaction with the public is always something a bit different.

 

[AM9]

Notwithstanding any doors/beacon issues that are arising during the introduction of the 700s, will the current practice of defensive driving at low speed into platforms be programmed into the ATO parameters?
Those tube lines using ATO approach their fixed stopping locations at speeds determined by the braking dynamics althougn the driver has a hand on the emergency brake if necessary. In order to fulfil the peak frequency requirements in the Thameslink core, surely the trains will need to use the precision of ATO to optimise the approach/dwell time and minimise station section occupancy time.

 

[The Box Photter]

Don't confuse a single tweets saying doors won't with meaning all doors aren't opening. You've made an assumption that just because where that person is, it applies to the whole train (it didn't).

As for why units are filling diagrams, well so far there's be the stock but disprution means it's harder to get things sorted. Especially important when a new fleet is being introduced and you can't train every driver at once.

If you feel a slow roll out is a bad idea, your entitled to that despite what I think. Just not sure how you think you commission 115 trains and train everyone up in a few months while then magically getting all the existing stock sorted in one go. It's very complex with the TOC being required to hold onto stock afterwards meaning you can't do the big bang. Let's get one thing straight, is is one of the largest rolling stock orders ever. The S stock is taking over 4 years to be introduced, from your comments you must believe TfL/Bombardier were crap at rolling the fleet out! Personally, it's called being sensible.

For the record, in terms of coaches the 700s are being introduced three times faster than the 387s, an existing updated design, which was considered accelerated and won an industry award for the introduction.

As for the poster, you do realise they've been on the 387s since their introduction? As for "new", not sure why you've done that as thy were new when he posters were put up. Also I outlines the difference between a TOC and DfT ordered train. (Not to mention the fact the 387 is a 2013 design where as the 700s are a 2008 deign even tho the latter is a full next gen design).



Well fact the Electrostars still have issues at St Pancras after 5 years is a point ignored by some. Or the introduction of the 313, 377, 450, 09 Tube stock have all been problematic to mention a few off the top of my head. You can only test so far, the interaction with the public is always something a bit different.

I'm fully aware that the poster to which I referred has been there since the trains were introduced. I quoted it as a way of juxtaposition between the standard of trains being offered then and now.

When I previously questioned whether sufficient testing in real world conditions had taken place you delighted in shooting me down in flames by trotting out the rigour of the testing schedule. Your latest comments infer that we passengers are now in a phase of beta testing.

My straw poll of passengers who regularly travel to and from Flitwick suggests almost unanimous disappointment with the seating, flooring, seat pitch and spacing. The absence of tables is also a matter of major disquiet.

If you do work for GTR I suggest you pay more attention to the needs of your customers and less time treating the railway as your own private train set.

 

[transmanche]

Your latest comments infer that we passengers are now in a phase of beta testing.

Which is as it has been for the introduction of all new rolling stock ever!

 

[asylumxl]

If you do work for GTR I suggest you pay more attention to the needs of your customers and less time treating the railway as your own private train set.

I feel I summed it up pretty well previously in this topic. These trains are primarily designed for operational ease and not for passenger ease.

The parties involved also seemed to have become absolutely obsessed with weight and dwell times. The lack of WiFi and seat back tables is lamentable for most passengers

Having said that, I don't mind the 700s at all, I just think it's idiotic to have to retrofit the aforementioned things to brand new trains still coming off the production line. I'm sure someone will chime in about the terms of contract and the relevant costings any minute anyway.

 

[AM9]

... Having said that, I don't mind the 700s at all, I just think it's idiotic to have to retrofit the aforementioned things to brand new trains still coming off the production line. I'm sure someone will chime in about the terms of contract and the relevant costings any minute anyway.

Has anyone authorised the funding of adding the 'aforementioned things'? I wouldn't bank on it until their impact on core dwells has been agreed by the original performance specifiers, (DfT?) and they actually appear fitted in-service trains.

 

[petersi]

.



If you do work for GTR I suggest you pay more attention to the needs of your customers and less time treating the railway as your own private train set.

To be fair these aspects of the stock are due to the department of transport not GTR

 

[Class377/5]

700008 became the 22nd delivery this morning.

I'm fully aware that the poster to which I referred has been there since the trains were introduced. I quoted it as a way of juxtaposition between the standard of trains being offered then and now.

When I previously questioned whether sufficient testing in real world conditions had taken place you delighted in shooting me down in flames by trotting out the rigour of the testing schedule. Your latest comments infer that we passengers are now in a phase of beta testing.

Seems your missing the point. Then again I don't we we'll ever see eye to eye on this point.

My straw poll of passengers who regularly travel to and from Flitwick suggests almost unanimous disappointment with the seating, flooring, seat pitch and spacing. The absence of tables is also a matter of major disquiet.

Fair point.

If you do work for GTR I suggest you pay more attention to the needs of your customers and less time treating the railway as your own private train set.

You opinion that I will, while is a personal stack on myself, is rather incorrect. I suggest you stick to facts not opinions especially when you start accusing other people?

 

[hwl]

To be fair these aspects of the stock are due to the department of transport not GTR

and the customer is DfT, not the user sitting on the seat...

 

[asylumxl]

Has anyone authorised the funding of adding the 'aforementioned things'? I wouldn't bank on it until their impact on core dwells has been agreed by the original performance specifiers, (DfT?) and they actually appear fitted in-service trains.

I'd not bank on them ever being fitted. The idea will just be dropped quietly, as is the way with the current government.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

and the customer is DfT, not the user sitting on the seat...

The DfT has a good track record of competent decisions.

 

[The Box Photter]

and the customer is DfT, not the user sitting on the seat...

As it's my taxes that fund DfT and my taxed income that pays for my season ticket, I think I qualify as a customer on both counts.

DfT specified the trains wrongly and GTR is implementing their introduction badly. Also GTR is doing nothing to improve the specification of trains still in building phase.

GTR has no commercial interests in changing the train specification because it's franchise is on a management contract to DfT.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

DfT specified the trains wrongly

Is your personal opinion.

 

[Harbornite]

My straw poll of passengers who regularly travel to and from Flitwick suggests almost unanimous disappointment with the seating, flooring, seat pitch and spacing. The absence of tables is also a matter of major disquiet.

How many people did you ask?

 

[AM9]

As it's my taxes that fund DfT and my taxed income that pays for my season ticket, I think I qualify as a customer on both counts. ...

As it's also my taxed pension that pays for your trains and I get no benefit from the service, I am grateful that the DfT isn't wasting public funds on things that have no or little positive impact on the performance of the Thameslink route as a mass transport system. If season ticket holders insist that they 'need' additions to the stock provided on the route, it can be added onto the cost of their anytime journeys that costs less than my severely restricted off-peak trips. Those who complain the most clearly think that they have a far greater interest in the details of the passeneger accommodation so it is only right that they should make a greater contribution to the cost.

 

[jon0844]

As has been said many times, first class offers most of what some people would like and can pay extra for right now. Only Wi-Fi is lacking and if you're on a decent network, 4G is better anyway.

 

[Class377/5]

As it's also my taxed pension that pays for your trains and I get no benefit from the service, I am grateful that the DfT isn't wasting public funds on things that have no or little positive impact on the performance of the Thameslink route as a mass transport system. If season ticket holders insist that they 'need' additions to the stock provided on the route, it can be added onto the cost of their anytime journeys that costs less than my severely restricted off-peak trips. Those who complain the most clearly think that they have a far greater interest in the details of the passeneger accommodation so it is only right that they should make a greater contribution to the cost.

GTR generates ticket revenue of around £7bn for a 7 year franchise. The cost of those trains are funded directly from that and due to the deal the DfT signed everyone up to means if it doesn't run, the TOC doesn't pay. So nothing of your pension has been spent on a 700.

In fact the set up is one the commuter pay for ht they get so it actually strengthens the case for better facilities. However some on here forget the TOC is not allowed to alter the trains. Only the DfT and Cross London Trains can do that.

So those who travel regularly already make the contribution the occasion off peaked user won't ever come close to giving with random trips rather than the lump sum commuter, even if they pay less on individual trips.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As has been said many times, first class offers most of what some people would like and can pay extra for right now. Only Wi-Fi is lacking and if you're on a decent network, 4G is better anyway.

Not forgetting on train WiFi is currently working off one shared 4G connection for the whole train so your likely to do far more with your own connection.