Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Class377/5]

Yep 700108 sitting at TBD depot this morning.

Question; there are a lot of other wagons (ISO crates) on the train, along with the unit itself. What would be in those?

Concrete to add braking weight as this method of hauling the 700 means they have no braking capability. First 5 or so will arrive this way.

 

[paul1609]

I can't confirm from first hand experience, but I've heard a number of anecdotes which suggest one or two ex-Littlehampton trains - already 12-car - are full and standing from Hove outside the school holidays. I suppose, with people interchanging, some/all of the standees might grab seats at Haywards Heath, Three Bridges or Gatwick.

It does seem likely the arrival of the 700s will result in more standing from Haywards Heath (45 minutes), if not further out. I'm East Coastway, and I know there would be standing from Lewes (60 minutes) on a few trains were they replacing 377s/442s 'like for like' here. But we had a lucky escape.

I wonder whether this decade is 'peak London'? They do have Starbucks and Waitrose in Birmingham, and a stroll into the city centre from a nice house in Edgbaston sounds more appealing than a silly-o-clock alarm call and strapper-hanging from Burgess Hill to City Thameslink.

Some Littlehampton peak workings are standing from Shoreham By Sea however people don't tend to have to stand all the way because quite a few people alight and work at Haywards Heath, you need to get sat down before they open the doors! Most people from Littlehampton and Angmering who commute to Central London drive to Arundel because of the shorter journey. I used to have a littlehampton to London season ticket but only used it from Littlehampton a few times a year for office parties etc. Ive now moved to Marshlink land much better commuting.

 

[zdz]

Concrete to add braking weight as this method of hauling the 700 means they have no braking capability. First 5 or so will arrive this way.

How wonderfully inefficient

Thanks

 

[swt_passenger]

How wonderfully inefficient...

But completely ordinary for deliveries of brand new stock. Happens regularly, for instance every LU S stock so far has been delivered between 'brake force runners'...

 

[Class377/5]

But completely ordinary for deliveries of brand new stock. Happens regularly, for instance every LU S stock so far has been delivered between 'brake force runners'...

And required for a drag as the part of the train that has brakes must be powerful enough to stop the part that doesn't have brakes otherwise you can't stop a train.

Pretty ever drag requires this, the 387/2 etc etc. I believe only the 375 moves are done without using a 57 (?).

However the long term plan is for wagons that talk to the 700s (meaning completed units are delivered than a unit in parts like today's) so they use the brakes but the design had to work on the German, French and British railways along with working all the different types of locos expected to do the moves.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Could class 92s have been used to haul them? They'd probably be no good in Germany but from the French-German border all the way to the depot (or are 92s banned from operating in 3rd rail mode)?

 

[Class377/5]

Could class 92s have been used to haul them? They'd probably be no good in Germany but from the French-German border all the way to the depot (or are 92s banned from operating in 3rd rail mode)?

No. They are barred from Redhill due to damaging signalling equipment so will be a diesel loco in the UK part. The path had to be available via Redhill due to the need to shut down the Quarry's at some points during week.

 

[Chris125]

Could class 92s have been used to haul them? They'd probably be no good in Germany but from the French-German border all the way to the depot (or are 92s banned from operating in 3rd rail mode)?

Alas they aren't fitted with KVB for working over French classic lines.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Alas they aren't fitted with KVB for working over French classic lines.

Is KVB the french equivalent of ATP?

 

[Nym]

AWS, TPWS, KVB, KVM430, Seltrac S40, DTG-R, Trainstops, etc...

These are ALL types of ATP!

 

[Class377/5]

Rumours of first unit out this week.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is KVB the french equivalent of ATP?

More like AWS/TPWS.

 

[Peter Sarf]

.....

However the long term plan is for wagons that talk to the 700s (meaning completed units are delivered than a unit in parts like today's) so they use the brakes but the design had to work on the German, French and British railways along with working all the different types of locos expected to do the moves.

I just digested what you said. Does that mean that the current deliveries are STILL only parts of a complete 12-car or 8-car unit ?.

Was wondering. Is this all communicating wagon you refer to going to need to have power to be able to talk to the unit ?. Or is it all simply possible via the air pipes with no power even required for what ever machine converts/passes-on the locomotives signals ?.

 

[Class377/5]

I just digested what you said. Does that mean that the current deliveries are STILL only parts of a complete 12-car or 8-car unit ?.

Was wondering. Is this all communicating wagon you refer to going to need to have power to be able to talk to the unit ?. Or is it all simply possible via the air pipes with no power even required for what ever machine converts/passes-on the locomotives signals ?.

The first five units arts all being delivered in the parts. To be honest I'm not 100% about the set up of trains after, I remember they can be brought over whole 12 cars in a single piece, but not the details sorry. Was more interested in days of units that the particulars.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have the train crews and fitters started their traction courses yet? They probably can't do any of the practical stuff yet

 

[A-driver]

Have the train crews and fitters started their traction courses yet? They probably can't do any of the practical stuff yet

A pilot course has run for a mix of TL & GN drivers (currently they don't plan on southern drivers signing them except for the testing and commissioning ones). The pilot course will be evaluated by those on it along with managers and union reps to ensure it covers everything especially as GN and TL drivers will have different levels of knowledge in things due to different history of traction & road knowledge.

The actual testing & commissioning drivers have already signed them and driven them both as real units (in Germany) and on the purpose built simulator (the sim uses the route cricklewood-Sutton-potters bar and is meant to be one of the best route replications of any train simulator).

It also appears the union are now satisfied with the mods made regarding crash testing and the units are ready to be cleared for mainline testing.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will it be easier for drivers who sign Electrostars to learn them then those who sign anything else?

 

[A-driver]

Will it be easier for drivers who sign Electrostars to learn them then those who sign anything else?

Won't make much difference in terms of traction-more regarding where people are with things relevant to ERTMS etc.

The mitrac will make a difference as it makes a difference from fault finding etc on stock older than 365s. A lot of GN drivers have come from the TL, GA and other TOCs with electro stars and more modern units so have experience with such things.

The pilot course was more to ensure that you don't design a course where the TL drivers are spending days covering stuff they know inside out whilst GN drivers finish the course with lots they still don't understand. Or vice versa.

 

[swt_passenger]

I just digested what you said. Does that mean that the current deliveries are STILL only parts of a complete 12-car or 8-car unit ?.

I thought they were deliveries of a whole 12 car unit, but temporarily split into three sections for movement so that the brake force vehicles (the blue containers mentioned above) could be distributed evenly throughout the train.

On arrival the separate sections were then shunted into the correct 12 car formations.

 

[sarahj]

I know on of the drivers who will be doing the teaching. They said they managed to break on on the siemens test track.

 

[physics34]

A pilot course has run for a mix of TL & GN drivers (currently they don't plan on southern drivers signing them except for the testing and commissioning ones).

ive just in the last few days heard the opposite regarding southern drivers. May be rumours though.

 

[A-driver]

ive just in the last few days heard the opposite regarding southern drivers. May be rumours though.

I had heard more southern drivers than GN drivers would sign them lately but since ten heard its back to plan a.
The issue is that how Govia want to do this goes against the FCC terms and conditions on a massive scale so they are having to do quite a rethink otherwise it may spark massive industrial relation issues.

The train crew plan rests purely on the berthing plan for units. Where they stay overnight largely dictates who drives them. But this is yet to be finalised slightly because of lack of decision in management and partly because they havnt read the drivers T&Cs yet.

 

[physics34]

I had heard more southern drivers than GN drivers would sign them lately but since ten heard its back to plan a.
The issue is that how Govia want to do this goes against the FCC terms and conditions on a massive scale so they are having to do quite a rethink otherwise it may spark massive industrial relation issues.

The train crew plan rests purely on the berthing plan for units. Where they stay overnight largely dictates who drives them. But this is yet to be finalised slightly because of lack of decision in management and partly because they havnt read the drivers T&Cs yet.

the units will come into service gradually i guess before the big 2018 thingy, displacing 377s (off some southern routes), 387s and 319s on the way.

Drivers who already know the routes will need to learn the stock id imagine...

Yeh im aware the difference in the t&c's will be an issue..... they may need to put a big offer up to the drivers.

 

[Sunset route]

700106 was moving around Three Bridges depot under its own power today.

 

[bengley]

Train was moving around Three Bridges depot under its own power this afternoon

 

[ainsworth74]

I know on of the drivers who will be doing the teaching. They said they managed to break on on the siemens test track.

Well, I suppose it's better that they break it there than say East Croydon at about 0800 on Monday morning...

 

[387star]

I heard southern barnham drivers would be dis for bridges trainees

 

[Class377/5]

700106 was moving around Three Bridges depot under its own power today.

First unit to do so in the UK.

 

[Class 466]

Some SE drivers will also be learning 700s as they will continue to cover TL services into Kent.

 

[JaJaWa]

Some SE drivers will also be learning 700s as they will continue to cover TL services into Kent.

Haven't those services just been run by Thameslink for a few months now?