THAMESLINK services to Kent and Sussex routes 2018

[BRX]

The original idea was a 4tph Blackfriars to London Bridge via Wimbledon Loop using 20x 319 which would be part of the Southern Metro network.

That would mean you'd have a 4tph service from all stations in both directions. All services would be 8 car and run all day.

And the latest proposal is that these run Blackfriars-Blackfriars instead?

ie. same as current service but with frequency doubled?

 

[cle]

Could 8tph get through the single platform at Wimbledon?

And is that not adding more through a presumedly-full Herne Hill?

 

[Class377/5]

Could 8tph get through the single platform at Wimbledon?

And is that not adding more through a presumedly-full Herne Hill?

There used to be (haven't checked) standing time meaning there were more gaps than ithe appeared. NR did have a draft TT I believe.

 

[plcd1]

There's a good reason for that. It's because there is no work being done on the detail of transferring the specification of any franchise to TfL.

All that has been agreed is that it will be investigated at some time in the future.

And yet Val Shawcross, Dep Mayor for Transport, told the London Assembly Transport Cttee this week that

a) there were good relations between City Hall and the DfT.
b) the (now former) SoS was very keen to see devolution of services to TfL.
c) that the preferred sequence of transfers remained SET, SWT and then bits of GTR (Southern Metro). 2018 remains the transfer data for SET.

She also added that a large volume of work was underway with Network Rail and a joint investment paper would be put to the TfL Board this Autumn setting out plans (and I assume funding) for a series of interventions to unlock capacity on South London's rail network. No specifics were given as you might expect at this point in time.

I accept that this does not *directly* confirm that work on a service spec is happening for SET but I'd be astonished that an investment programme was being developed independently of a service spec which would allow a base case to be set out and then benefits calculated for the planned interventions. I also fail to see why there has been this sudden adjustment to Thameslink services to run into Kent *if* there was not a wider plan (or spec) for rejigging the SET franchise to allow segregation of inner suburban services for tendering by TfL.

 

[Class377/5]

Because the rejigging of services is being done by the current franchise holders where as anything relating to the transfer is being done by the Dft and NR completely seperate from franchise holders.

 

[Bald Rick]

And yet Val Shawcross, Dep Mayor for Transport, told the London Assembly Transport Cttee this week that

a) there were good relations between City Hall and the DfT.
b) the (now former) SoS was very keen to see devolution of services to TfL.

Note the past tense.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because the rejigging of services is being done by the current franchise holders where as anything relating to the transfer is being done by the Dft and NR completely seperate from franchise holders.

Quite.

(Although transfer of specification of services is nothing to do with NR).

 

[plcd1]

Note the past tense.

Oh come on. She spoke honestly at that moment in time. Events have unfolded since and I merely reflected that in the tense I used. None of us know the full set up at the DfT under the May dictatorship nor do we know what the policy stance will be. The position could continue as before or it could swing 180 degrees in the opposite direction. I don't see that happening though because devolution has cross party support.

 

[ScotGG]

When is the consultation about the big re-working of Southeastern services, and the plan for Thameslink via Woolwich and Abbey Wood, going to happen?

I read on here from a creditable commentator that it would be in July.

Anyway, as Southeastern Metro seems to be shafted much of the time I can see any plans being postponed or cancelled. Southern now seems in the news so expect them to gain, much like Great Western and c2c have recently. Oh, and GA when that is announced as well as areas where TfL took over.

 

[Class377/5]

When is the consultation about the big re-working of Southeastern services, and the plan for Thameslink via Woolwich and Abbey Wood, going to happen?

I read on here from a creditable commentator that it would be in July.

Anyway, as Southeastern Metro seems to be shafted much of the time I can see any plans being postponed or cancelled. Southern now seems in the news so expect them to gain, much like Great Western and c2c have recently. Oh, and GA when that is announced as well as areas where TfL took over.

July was the date given by GTR, as it's a consultation for Thameslink services, I'm not sure why you expect it to have full details of an SE timetable rewrite?

 

[ScotGG]

Fair enough. Only relaying what I'd read on here. I also read that the Kent route strategy was well underway by NR and consulted upon soon so wondered if it'd all feed together into preliminary consultation.

 

[ComUtoR]

[/B]I'm not sure why you expect it to have full details of an SE timetable rewrite?

Possibly because its coming with a reduction in SE work ?

 

[Class377/5]

Fair enough. Only relaying what I'd read on here. I also read that the Kent route strategy was well underway by NR and consulted upon soon so wondered if it'd all feed together into preliminary consultation.

But the point as pointed out here is this the fact that what GTR/SE have proposed has nothing to do with NR who haven't even checked its do-able in their eyes yet (you have to allow some time for NR to work through the details). Its two franchisee proposing something for the next two franchisee's to take up with NR doing the leg work to check it all.

Possibly because its coming with a reduction in SE work ?

That still has nothing to Thameslink consultation and everything to do with the SE consultation.

 

[Minstral25]

July was the date given by GTR, as it's a consultation for Thameslink services, I'm not sure why you expect it to have full details of an SE timetable rewrite?

It's a GTR production so it is now running very late - I heard rumour that September at earliest for consultation!

 

[MrB]

It's a GTR production so it is now running very late - I heard rumour that September at earliest for consultation!

Doesn't leave long for any changes to be made!

 

[Class377/5]

It's a GTR production so it is now running very late - I heard rumour that September at earliest for consultation!

Not surprised. Lot of work to be checked.

Doesn't leave long for any changes to be made!

Well in planning terms it's quite close but considering so e of th other changes were in flux a few months before they were introduced, there time for things to change.

 

[HowardGWR]

Just a quibble with the thread title. 'Fewer'.

 

[Deepgreen]

Just a quibble with the thread title. 'Fewer'.

Exactly -yes!

 

[Minstral25]

Just a quibble with the thread title. 'Fewer'.

I occasionally have trouble with words and proper order, basically not very good at written English. Hopefully that's better now - if not let me know and I'll change again (now I've worked out how to do it).



On other news GTR have arranged a briefing with GTR line MP's on 14th September to present new timetable. I guess we could assume it will come out shortly after that meeting.

 

[BRX]

I occasionally have trouble with words and proper order, basically not very good at written English. Hopefully that's better now - if not let me know and I'll change again (now I've worked out how to do it).

It's not a word order problem... you just need to change the word "less" to "fewer".

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/less-or-fewer

I can be a bit of a grammar pedant but still manage to get this wrong myself sometimes!

 

[Minstral25]

It's not a word order problem... you just need to change the word "less" to "fewer".

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/less-or-fewer

I can be a bit of a grammar pedant but still manage to get this wrong myself sometimes!

No problem being pedantic - just explain clearly what you want and I am happy to oblige. I think someone changed it and it looks like I changed it back

 

[ScotGG]

I occasionally have trouble with words and proper order, basically not very good at written English. Hopefully that's better now - if not let me know and I'll change again (now I've worked out how to do it).



On other news GTR have arranged a briefing with GTR line MP's on 14th September to present new timetable. I guess we could assume it will come out shortly after that meeting.

Including the Greenwich line?

 

[Class377/5]

If anyone ready the latest Connections leaflet there is an outline of what is proposed as part of the consultation (just ignore the months mention).

Its going to last for at least three months and be done in two phases.

Phase 1 - "sample peak and off peak timetable with options for comments" via post or online.

Phase 2 - After looking through the feedback, more detailed timetable will be shown for more commenting.

 

[Deepgreen]

I occasionally have trouble with words and proper order, basically not very good at written English. Hopefully that's better now - if not let me know and I'll change again (now I've worked out how to do it).



On other news GTR have arranged a briefing with GTR line MP's on 14th September to present new timetable. I guess we could assume it will come out shortly after that meeting.

There are far worserer offenders than you using this forum!

 

[Class377/5]

Latest news is the consultation will start 6th Sept.

 

[Minstral25]

Latest news is the consultation will start 6th Sept.

Yes Heard that as well.

Interesting reading on the excellent "London Reconnections" that having spent all that money getting Thameslink trains away from the flat junctions they are planning to divert the trains to the Greenwich lines which means they will need to cross at the flat all the Cannon Street lines - not good!

 

[Class377/5]

Yes Heard that as well.

Interesting reading on the excellent "London Reconnections" that having spent all that money getting Thameslink trains away from the flat junctions they are planning to divert the trains to the Greenwich lines which means they will need to cross at the flat all the Cannon Street lines - not good!

It's either that or reduce the peak tph out of Cannon Street. It's always been an issues to be solved.

 

[Esker-pades]

There are far worserer offenders than you using this forum!

I hope that SPaG error was ironic :P.

 

[swt_passenger]

The main question mark is over the crossing moves to/from the Greenwich line. The infrastructure as built was always intended to allow for the 4 tph to/from the Southeastern via New Cross, it is the purpose of the "Southwark reversible", the fourth line through the diveunder, and the down direction Corbett's Lane Junction. Those two features provide grade separation between the Southeastern route and Thameslink. What they don't do is provide full grade separation of the various different Southeastern services, but that was never specified.

 

[ScotGG]

It's either that or reduce the peak tph out of Cannon Street. It's always been an issues to be solved.

The reduction in planned SE services to Cannon Street after 2018 has always been an issue that looked likely to bite them in the bum.

And now a late change of plans to try to deal with it?

It was always very unlikely they could get away with reducing Cannon Street peak paths. How was it that came about without any long standing plan? Capacity cannot reudce on SE Metro lines with the numbers of housing and population changes. Under GLA and national govt plans homebuilding is the highest in London, if not the country, in places served by SE Metro.

 

[Arendt]

Today in the DLR I noticed the following map and it reminded me of this discussion. Usually network rail lines are shown on a separate map with all southeastern lines the same colour.

On this new map (from June this year) rail and tube are neatly integrated, and they made a clear colour distinction between the Southeastern to Gilligham via Greenwich, vs the other lines.

Easing us in to changes about to come??