The Beginning of the End of Sainsbury's ?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If a shop becomes the same, in essence, as it's competitors, can it be said to still "exist" ?

Are you saying therefore that those same competitors "do not also exist"?

 

[yorksrob]

Are you saying therefore that those same competitors "do not also exist"?

In essence, probably not if they're all the same !

 

[route101]

The in store Argos experience is still rather frustrating, they got rid of the simple stock checkers for fancy screens which can show the catalogue but are slower than treacle and unresponsive to use, order anything with an age limit and you're forced to queue up for the staffed till, who are seemingly held at gunpoint to hit their targets on flogging extended warranty and Argos cards (I appreciate not the fault of the member of staff, but annoying to be asked every single time as a customer!)

Returns can also be rather problematic depending on what mood the manager is in on the day!

They basically seem fine for lower priced goods but for larger purchases other retailers always seem the more attractive option

I would be interested to see the figures regarding same day delivery usage, I don't think I've ever been in a position where I've thought 'I MUST BUY XYZ AND HAVE IT BY THE END OF TODAY!', in fact quite the opposite I'm a tight bugger and if free delivery is on offer for 5 days I'll just select that!

Recently i needed a Laptop ASAP. Poor availability everywhere including Amazon. Thats one instance where i need it now. John Lewis got my custom.

 

[DelW]

Since covid my local Argos stores have only offered C&C and home delivery, maybe it’s proven a success. You can’t enter the stores speculatively to browse the catalogue etc.

That was the case at my local Argos (inside a large Sainsbury's) during the first lockdown, but they went back to allowing in-store ordering and payment some months ago.

That still seemed to be the case last Thursday, though I didn't look closely.

 

[Ianno87]

If a shop becomes the same, in essence, as it's competitors, can it be said to still "exist" ?

Yes.

Asda and Tesco for example, have similar offerings but they are still distinctly different as brands.

Sainsbury's I don't think was massively different to begin with.

 

[37424]

The in store Argos experience is still rather frustrating, they got rid of the simple stock checkers for fancy screens which can show the catalogue but are slower than treacle and unresponsive to use, order anything with an age limit and you're forced to queue up for the staffed till, who are seemingly held at gunpoint to hit their targets on flogging extended warranty and Argos cards (I appreciate not the fault of the member of staff, but annoying to be asked every single time as a customer!)

Returns can also be rather problematic depending on what mood the manager is in on the day!

They basically seem fine for lower priced goods but for larger purchases other retailers always seem the more attractive option

I would be interested to see the figures regarding same day delivery usage, I don't think I've ever been in a position where I've thought 'I MUST BUY XYZ AND HAVE IT BY THE END OF TODAY!', in fact quite the opposite I'm a tight bugger and if free delivery is on offer for 5 days I'll just select that!

not everybody needs same day delivery of course, but many seem to like it, your printer, kettle, microwave etc breaks and you need a new one ASAP.

They have to be strict on the age limit as if they got caught the consequences could be severe, they are frequently tested internally by the company and any shop that fails is in big trouble. Returns can be tricky because there are a number of customers who frankly take the mick, and identifying the genuine and the micky takers can be difficult.

Have they got the right strategy for Argos I don't think so, but then the decision is way above my pay grade, so my area West York's will likely go from around 15 stores to 3 stores and quite a lot of them that are left are in Retail Parks so looks like it could be the death of the Retail Park as well as the High Street.

I'm can see the shift to online and am advocate of it to degree, but I think there will still be a demand for In Person shopping admittidly with a smaller footprint and I think its a case of getting the balance right between the two and I'm not sure Sainsburys have.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes.

Asda and Tesco for example, have similar offerings but they are still distinctly different as brands.

Sainsbury's I don't think was massively different to begin with.

I think they were towards the top of the same tier.

 

[D365]

Growing up, I was always under the impression that Tesco and Sainsbury’s are broadly equivalent. Asda is cheaper than Tesco, Waitrose more expensive than Sainsbury’s, and M&S Food at the very top end.

 

[Andrew S]

I avoid those two like the plague. I don’t see the attraction. Poor checkout system, big queues, Aldi food quality is very poor in my opinion.

Absolutely agreed. I may be a bit of a snob in this respect but I'd rather pay a tiny bit more and have a pleasant shopping experience.

Looking at the title of this thread, how many website members actually believe that this is "The beginning of the end for Sainsbury's"?

No, of course it isn't. They'll adapt. I can imagine some re-branding and marketing of their "taste the difference" cooked meat, cheese etc products to fill the perceived gap left by the counters.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are you saying therefore that those same competitors "do not also exist"?

In essence, probably not if they're all the same !

On that basis, Avanti, Cross Country and East Midlands all run near identical 22x trains. Do these not exist?

I know a few people on here would hope that was the case!

 

[richw]

That was the case at my local Argos (inside a large Sainsbury's) during the first lockdown, but they went back to allowing in-store ordering and payment some months ago.

That still seemed to be the case last Thursday, though I didn't look closely.

my local is a stand alone store. The doorman only lets you in if you’ve got a order number to collect

Absolutely agreed. I may be a bit of a snob in this respect but I'd rather pay a tiny bit more and have a pleasant shopping experience.

I am happy to be a self confessed snob when it comes to where I shop. I like quality and a pleasant shopping experience. Aldi doesn’t offer either in my opinion.
I tend to use Sainsbury’s and scan as shop as I find the checkout on scan as shop effortless. Everything already packed and a 30 second checkout at most. Asda and Waitrose both offer scan as you shop near me and I will use either of those, but Sainsbury’s is my first choice due to in recent times very favourable nectar offers through their app

 

[tbtc]

This is a bit of a confusing thread - e.g. as it becomes easier and easier to copy the best practices of other retailers, I'm not sure how many shops actually "exist" any more in the eyes of the OP? Did Tesco cease to "exist" once other supermarkets copied the Clubcard idea and launched their own versions? Did ASDA cease to "exist" when other supermarkets copied the "George" idea of having branded clothing ranges? (or whoever was first to have "value"/ "special" ranges)

Given that the majority of Sainsburys shops (by number of branches, if not "floor space") were smaller, the removal of Deli Counters won't affect many shoppers. It's a loss leader, a "nice to have" - a bit like a train buffet - it's a selling point to attract some people but one that requires a disproportionate amount of staffing compared to the revenue it brings in.

Sainsbury's have obviously had a history of trying to be different things to different people - from the "Savacentre" days to the increasing number of convenience shops - from taking on non-core business like Homebase to flogging them on - any business of their size needs to cater to different types of people at the same time to survive - I think that their recent changes seem to be making the business relatively future-proof - integrating Argos stores, using Argos to take up space in larger shops that don't need to be so big nowadays. They've invested a few quid in their delivery business, they have the deep pocketed Quataris keeping the business funded, they look a decent bet for the 2020s.

The problem is that, whilst Aldi and Lidl are great at what they do, Aldi and Lidl are already filling that gap in the market. Retailers like Sainsbury's aren't able to slash costs to that level and shouldn't need to - the market is huge and not everyone is wanting an austere shopping environment where there's only a choice of a couple of things in each category. Don't get me wrong, I like the German chains but if Sainsbury's can charge a premium to a certain number of punters then why slash everything? There seems a bit of a Forum insistence that not every pub needs to try to be Wetherspoons and not every clothes shop needs to be Sports Direct/ Primark - not everything has to be simplified to the Lowest Common Denominator - sure - but I think that, even in these polarised times, there's plenty of market share for a shop catering for people who want a few more frills/options than you'd get at an Aldi but without having to do the full M&S Simply Food price ticket.

If anyone should be worried it might be ASDA under new ownership - a couple of petrol station magnates from Blackburn might not be able to match Walmart when it comes to buying power etc.

 

[Typhoon]

Poor checkout system, big queues, Aldi food quality is very poor in my opinion.

I am surprised at that, I am always hearing 'we are opening checkout number three for you' then something about starting to put the items on the conveyor belt at my local Aldi. I also find the checkout staff welcoming and positive, by and large. At my nearest Sainsbury's I hear 'will Karen Smith' (or whoever) report to checkouts repeated for up to ten minutes because people are queuing (meanwhile I will have passed several staff members just chatting). One reason why I use self service (plus the usual assistant is actually pretty good). Customer service very much can be influenced more by local management.

I do agree with the quality of food. There are some items I will buy from Aldi and some I won't (try them once, if no good, don't buy again). Sainsbury's - the only thing that puts me off is the price. I know I can buy identical items elsewhere for (much) less.

 

[dgl]

Our local Lidl has self checkouts but no-one to man them so if you have an issue you generally have to wait for the one cashier to finish serving the current customer before you get any assistance.
Admitedly if more people packed their bags in Aldi/Lidl at the packing shelf then the queues would go down much faster, if you want cheaper prices you have to put up with what that entails.

 

[Butts]

The Co-op seems to have quite a local presence in the local areas near to where I now live.

Who else can remember when J Sainsbury were NO 1 , it's not that long ago - 20 years ?

Talking of the Co-op, a first for me was seeing a Co-op Branded Filling Station attached to a small Co-op Supermarket on The Isle of Skye yesterday.

 

[Bald Rick]

Who else can remember when J Sainsbury were NO 1 , it's not that long ago - 20 years ?

Tesco took no1 spot in 1995. Although they had been no1 in the 80s too.

 

[yorksrob]

How is "no 1" calculated ? Tesco was definitely high up in the era of Sir Terry Leahy.

 

[richw]

I am surprised at that,

My local Aldi has only 4 checkouts. Often queues half way up the aisles.

 

[Class465pacer]

Tesco got rid of "in-house" cafes some years ago - the space is usually rented to Costa or somebody instead.

The existence of a Tesco cafe in most if not all Extra stores in London disagrees.

 

[richw]

The existence of a Tesco cafe in most if not all Extra stores in London disagrees.

Theyre all outsourced. Compass group run the ones trading as Tesco cafe in my area, only evidence of this so only realise this is the case is printed on the receipt. Others have seen the space rented out to Costa and other chains.

 

[tbtc]

Who else can remember when J Sainsbury were NO 1 , it's not that long ago - 20 years ?

My memory of it is that the purchase of Wm Low was what pushed Tesco ahead of Sainsbury's - before then both retailers had had fairly low presence in Scotland (given the way that Wm Low/ Presto/ Safeway all seemed to have presence)

Talking of the Co-op, a first for me was seeing a Co-op Branded Filling Station attached to a small Co-op Supermarket on The Isle of Skye yesterday.

There's a few Co-op petrol stations around here, or have been at least - I'm not getting out so much these days!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How is "no 1" calculated ? Tesco was definitely high up in the era of Sir Terry Leahy.

It's by market share measured, I think, by turnover.

 

[yorksrob]

It's by market share measured, I think, by turnover.

Ah yes, all boils down to market share !

 

[317 forever]

Surely when all said and done this is probably a good thing (except for those staff that are directly affected). Not only does it allow for more retail space but more importantly further increases the importance of local butchers/fish mongers.

It will at least allow more retail space once the area is rebuilt with the metal etc removed.

Not so very far from where we now live, in the area known as Cheadle Royal, there is a large John Lewis store conjoined to a large Sainsbury's store by a glass atrium area that fronts onto a very large car park. Sainsbury's expanded their store some years ago and it was then their cafeteria was opened and it was noticeable that people working on the nearby Cheadle Royal business park came to that cafeteria for breakfast before starting work and at lunch time, in addition to the people shopping at Sainbury's. After 1130, there was a choice of 10 full cooked meals were served at very reasonable prices. One such meal being Salmon fillet, minted baby potatoes and long-stemmed brocoli for only £6.00 (the local garden centre cafeterias would think naught of charging £11.95 for such a meal). Many shoppers, I am informed, used that cafeteria for Sunday lunch rather than patronising the garden centre cafeterias.

I've used that Sainsbury's a few times as it's accessible by bus for me. As it's quite a big one the cafe is a comparatively long walk from the entrance. The one at Hazel Grove has the cafe nearer the entrance and the one at Manchester Fallowfield only just inside the store.

Despite being the largest Sainsbury's within my vicinity, Cheadle Heath has on my visits been more prone than average to run out of things.

Sainsbury's has always been very forgettable to me. I'll go in if it's there, but otherwise I wouldn't notice if it vanished. The one unique selling point for me is free air in the petrol stations, which is increasingly rare elsewhere.

I'm never quite sure who it caters to. If I think of supermarkets I think:
Cheap - Aldi and Lidl
Standard - Tesco and ASDA
Expensive - Waitrose and M&S
The other two - Sainsbury's and Morrisons

I don't dislike it like I do Morrisons, or avoid it like the expensive two, I have absolutely no feelings towards it whatsoever and have never thought of doing a full shop there.

I tend to think of Asda, Tesco & Morrisons as level, but with Asda often and Morrisons sometimes cheaper. I also think of Tesco as an originally southern and Morrisons an originally northern mid-range supermarket. Morrisons is not as expensive as Safeway, which they took over, was.

Yes, there was a explosion of Sainsburys Locals in Glasgow City Centre in early 2010s. First one in the City Centre was Buchanan Galleries. The big Sainsburys around Glasgow always seem quieter than the Asdas, Tesco and Morries.

Always think Sainsburys tries too hard, its neither here or there, seen as it bit uppity by the Asda/Morries crowd.

In Manchester city centre at least 2 Sainsbury's locals have closed, the one at Piccadilly just outside the station and the other just down the road from Exchange Square. The Piccadilly one only opened early last year. Likewise the one just outside Stockport station, again a recent opening, closed earlier this year.

Talking about Stockport closures, the recent platform 0 seems to have closed to trains recently as whenever I have been there its former trains have always used platform 1.

 

[Typhoon]

My local Aldi has only 4 checkouts. Often queues half way up the aisles.

A serious miscalculation I would have thought, particularly at this time. My local Aldi, (East Kent) not that large has 8 (I think), ideal in the current situation. There are two others fairly nearby, both have lots of checkouts, and they do seem to be monitored for queue length. As I inferred before, Sainsbury's do seem to monitor queue length but do not seem to be that good at getting the staff to the checkouts at the nearest two I go to, the reason why I use self service, if practical. I don't know whether the nearest Morrison's and Asda do. Morrison's don't appear to, and leave people waiting at the self service for ages (I usually look out for someone with a name badge but not in uniform and ask them, knowing that they probably won't have a clue but are senior enough to find someone who has). They seem to have 'duties' which are fairly inflexible. My nearest Asda has changed some of its checkouts to self service recently so can't comment on the new arrangements.

Since I only ever do (fairly) small shops - need to carry the stuff some way home - I wouldn't use Aldi if there were only four checkouts. There is not much I buy there (I certainly got quite a bit of change from a tenner when I went there yesterday).

 

[Bald Rick]

I’ve just realised, that when I used to shop at Aldi nearly 30 years ago, it was at the UK’s first branch. I didn’t like it then either, and after about a dozen visits quickly transferred to Tesco!

 

[Snow1964]

I don’t really get Sainsbury’s policy, when they opened the Argos section, where I lived (in SW London) they retained the stand alone Argos store half a mile away. I suspect all they achieved was similar sales volume, but spread over 2 sites, and with additional costs.

Also the main store is not as busy as it used to be as there are now a number of Sainsbury’s locals which opened within mile of it, so seems to me it would be better closing the big store (or part the site) and selling it off (or building and renting out) apartments which is what has just been built on adjacent site.

I suspect certain stores should be closed altogether as the large site is no longer profitable. Presumably Sainsburys HQ has details of sales vs floor area size for each store, so it knows which ones are deadweight

 

[KevinTurvey]

I think Sainsburys will be fine. The deli counter thing is a cyclical fashion across all retailers, every 5 years it seems they rip them out then put them back, whether it be traditional deli, fish, pasta or pizza or curry.

How different now is Argos to Amazon, if they move in to the Sainsburys store they have ditched the high street rents and so are on a more level playing field to Amazon. They can ditch the duplication of ranges i.e. pans and kettles and TV's. and sell these in the Argos bit. Also Argos has the advantage you don't have to wait in for delivery men.

 

[richw]

As I inferred before, Sainsbury's do seem to monitor queue length but do not seem to be that good at getting the staff to the checkouts at the nearest two I go to

My local Sainsbury’s has scan as shop, which is my preferred choice, never takes more than 30-60 seconds from entering the queue to payment. Packing as I shop, I find it the most stress free shopping option

 

[birchesgreen]

My local Sainsbury’s has scan as shop, which is my preferred choice, never takes more than 30-60 seconds from entering the queue to payment. Packing as I shop, I find it the most stress free shopping option

I might try that next time, usually works well?