The Beginning of the End of Sainsbury's ?

[Busaholic]

Sometimes Chairmen/Chief Execs and the like manage to lace a bit of truth into the obfuscation of their various statements, often inadvertently, but the genuine shock that seemed to strike Sainsbury's when they were forbidden to merge with Asda by the competition authority was palpable, and the probability of direct job losses was mooted. These are (a proportion of) those losses, and come at a time when once again Sainsbury's and their ilk are being given a free pass in relation to the pandemic e.g. being allowed to continue alcohol sales without hindrance, unlike licensed premises. If they cannot make good money in these unprecedented circumstances, then when can they? The fact is, they ARE making money, but these firms always want more, on behalf of their shareholders of course, not to mention salary bonuses for the bosses.

 

[DelayRepay]

I like to use the counters because, as a single person, it allows me to buy a small quantity. But I doubt the profit margin on my two slices of ham will be missed!

Tesco closed a lot of their fresh counters, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the ever-growing trend of on-line shopping, I am sure that there are those who espouse this facility, in their own minds, totally and utterly convince themselves that the ever-growing trend of high-street retail closures is nothing to do with them.

I like to use the counters because, as a single person, it allows me to buy a small quantity. But I doubt the profit margin on my two slices of ham will be missed!

Then there are other shoppers such as us who bought a good amount of different fresh fish, cooked meats and cheeses each week from those better-quality supermarket counters totalling an average of £15-£20 per week.

 

[Ianno87]

Looking at the ever-growing trend of on-line shopping, I am sure that there are those who espouse this facility, in their own minds, totally and utterly convince themselves that the ever-growing trend of high-street retail closures is nothing to do with them.



Then there are other shoppers such as us who bought a good amount of different fresh fish, cooked meats and cheeses each week from those better-quality supermarket counters totalling an average of £15-£20 per week.

Although there has generally been a shift away from the traditional "weekly big shop", with people buying lower quantities, but more often (and from more places).

 

[maniacmartin]

Although there has generally been a shift away from the traditional "weekly big shop", with people buying lower quantities, but more often (and from more places).

When I was growing up, my parents did a "monthly big shop" on the Saturday immediately after payday for ambient goods. I still buy tins, bottles, toiletries, frozen etc only monthly (sometimes with two trolleys). I then just top up 1-2x a week for perishables from a smaller local store. The idea of having to go to a busy big supermarket every week with big queues doesn't appeal to me. My only exception is chocolate, because if I have more than one bar in the house I will just end up eating them all too quickly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Co-op seems to have quite a local presence in the local areas near to where I now live.

 

[Clip]

Looking at the ever-growing trend of on-line shopping, I am sure that there are those who espouse this facility, in their own minds, totally and utterly convince themselves that the ever-growing trend of high-street retail closures is nothing to do with them.



Then there are other shoppers such as us who bought a good amount of different fresh fish, cooked meats and cheeses each week from those better-quality supermarket counters totalling an average of £15-£20 per week.

Morrisons counters always do well they have their own farms I think for the meat too. Not sure about the fish mind.

They do good pies too

 

[PeterC]

I don't normally shop at Sainsbury's but when I have gone in it has normally been to buy something from the hot food counter in the deli. That was always far better value than going to a takeaway.

I usually buy meat from an independent butcher and fruit and veg from our street market but with no fishmonger locally I do use the fish counter in our loal Waitrose, which has the advantage of fully free parking. The nearest Sainsbury's insists on pay and display, refunded at the checkout.

 

[radamfi]

Almost all towns now have an Argos either inside a Sainsburys or standalone. That never used to be the case in the 80s. Many people had to travel to the next town to go to Argos back then.

 

[Andyh82]

So possibly everyone dropping down to the lowest common denominator, with the supermarket experience going back to something like the 1980's.

You can blame Aldi and Lidl for that. The media are constantly comparing those two with the big four, bigging up the increases of the discounters and announcing every decline in the UK four. It seems people just want the lowest prices with no fancy stuff like counters.

 

[yorksrob]

You can blame Aldi and Lidl for that. The media are constantly comparing those two with the big four, bigging up the increases of the discounters and announcing every decline in the UK four. It seems people just want the lowest prices with no fancy stuff like counters.

Indeed. I'm not keen on having all the food piled on the floor, personally.

 

[Andyh82]

Well most my colleagues at Argos are still in shock as this really is a slash and burn of Argos stores. We expected the 120 stores that haven't reopened since lockdown to be closed and maybe some of the remaining smaller stores but not this it means that many major towns with big stores will be reduced to a small inside Sainsburys stores. Most of the major Argos shops still get good footfall and I think quite a few in Argos think this is going too far too fast and a 50% cut keeping the Hub stores and a few of the other big stores would have made more sense . The Hub stores currently supply Home Delivery and click and collect and it looks like they will be replaced by much fewer dark hub fulfillment centres, which I guess is the way of the future Amazon style, but that's going to be a significant investment and cost, and whether it could be described as environmentally friendly is another debatable point as it will mean much longer delivery runs for our home delivery vans.

As for Sainsburys it seems to me that they aren't really sure where they are in the market place and really they need to decide on that before they do anything. The changes today seem to be about simplifying the business which is all very well but I think Sainsburys really need to decide what level in the market place they want to be at.

Argos stores have been quite strange for years

Quite big units in high profile locations, but when you go inside it’s just the tables with the laminated catalogues. All the rest of the space is taken up with displays of products, that I don’t think anyone ever looks at. With the increase of the Internet, you don’t even need all the massive space where people browse through the catalogues anymore.

 

[route101]

As a Glaswegian, I tend to frequent Sainsbury's (the city has tons of them!) so I hope that they stick around. I've never used the meat/deli counters before though.

Much better than the company they tried to merge with 2 years ago - there's one of them in my town and it creeps me out.

Yes, there was a explosion of Sainsburys Locals in Glasgow City Centre in early 2010s. First one in the City Centre was Buchanan Galleries. The big Sainsburys around Glasgow always seem quieter than the Asdas, Tesco and Morries.

Always think Sainsburys tries too hard, its neither here or there, seen as it bit uppity by the Asda/Morries crowd.

 

[37424]

Argos stores have been quite strange for years

Quite big units in high profile locations, but when you go inside it’s just the tables with the laminated catalogues. All the rest of the space is taken up with displays of products, that I don’t think anyone ever looks at. With the increase of the Internet, you don’t even need all the massive space where people browse through the catalogues anymore.

Customers still look at the jewelry counter, and pre covid customers could look at particular products if requested.

It did make sense to put some stores in the smaller towns into Sainsburys, and in the bigger towns that may have had more than one store, up to now one store has frequently gone into Sainsburys but with the other store retained, but now some very large towns/cities will only get a small In Sainsburys Argos, some small towns will get a collection point or even nothing in a few cases. The shops that closed yesterday were under scrutiny before covid so it came as no surprise, but I think they should have held off on some of the others because I think if we do find a solution to covid soon I think there will be some bounce back in high street retail. Of course some of the closures are at least a couple of years away they can not really close the hub stores until they setup the new fulfilment centres so who knows there may be a change of policy by then.

 

[SteveM70]

Sainsbury’s want to shift Argos to as much click and collect as possible. That way they can offer the full range to all stores without having massive amounts of money tied up in stock in every store

 

[py_megapixel]

Customers still look at the jewelry counter, and pre covid customers could look at particular products if requested.

Yes, but did the sales from customers who used facilities only available in larger stores outweigh the difference between the costs of using a Sainsbury's store and renting/operating a large standalone store? Possibly.
Do they now? Almost certainly not.

Don't forget, in many cases it is cheaper for a business to lose out on custom from a minority of customers than to make special provisions to attract them.

I also wonder how many of the people looking at the jewelry counter were seeking inspiration for what to buy elsewhere...

 

[C J Snarzell]

Argos stores have been quite strange for years

Quite big units in high profile locations, but when you go inside it’s just the tables with the laminated catalogues. All the rest of the space is taken up with displays of products, that I don’t think anyone ever looks at. With the increase of the Internet, you don’t even need all the massive space where people browse through the catalogues anymore.

I remember the Argos in the Galleries in Wigan was turned into a Argos 'Extra' back in the early 1990s which I thought was a privilege as only selected towns were honoured with an Argos Extra!

The Extra catalogues were huge too. I know this is a very sad confession - but one of my childhood memories is taking home the new season catalogue from Argos (which came out twice a year), and exploring all the toys and computer games they had.

Moving on slightly to my late teens, I actually went through a phase of wearing sovereign rings and a cheap gold bracelet from the Elizabeth Duke range in the late 1990s/early 2000s when it was fashionable along with cheese cloth shirts and gelled hair parted in the middle. Does the ED jewellery range still exist?

Those were the days before the Internet when Argos and Index had a molopoly on catalogue shopping. I also remember the little pens which always ended up popping up in my Nan's house and being used for crosswords and the pools coupons.

CJ

 

[Darandio]

I know this is a very sad confession - but one of my childhood memories is taking home the new season catalogue from Argos (which came out twice a year), and exploring all the toys and computer games they had.

Sad? It was a ritual for many of us!

 

[Mojo]

I think the advantage of the standalone shops is that they are more likely to have the product you want in stock, and ready for immediate collection.

Saying that, I've found their supply chain very efficient. I once ordered a product to collect at a Sainsburys Local (ie. a location with no dedicated Argos counter and no stock stored locally) at 12.33, and had an email at 15.12 saying it was ready to collect. Only thing I find a bit awkward in collecting at Locals is that it always seems a bit of a rigmarole, with the checkout staff inevitably having to leave their posting for a good few minutes and go into the back of house area.

 

[37424]

Yes, but did the sales from customers who used facilities only available in larger stores outweigh the difference between the costs of using a Sainsbury's store and renting/operating a large standalone store? Possibly.
Do they now? Almost certainly not.

Don't forget, in many cases it is cheaper for a business to lose out on custom from a minority of customers than to make special provisions to attract them.

I also wonder how many of the people looking at the jewelry counter were seeking inspiration for what to buy elsewhere...

Its a valid argument but its also the loss of a differentiator, they are heading down the route towards Amazon, and reckon it will allow them to compete with Amazon better and offer 90% coverage same day delivery against Amazon current 48% but of course Amazon aren't going to stay still and Amazon are much bigger.

 

[Mojo]

Its a valid argument but its also the loss of a differentiator, they are heading down the route towards Amazon, and reckon it will allow them to compete with Amazon better and offer 90% coverage same day delivery against Amazon current 48% but of course Amazon aren't going to stay still and Amazon are much bigger.

One thing that Amazon are not very good at is bulky, but cheap items.

 

[Gloster]

One thing that Amazon are not very good at is bulky, but cheap items.

Another thing Amazon is not very good at is paying tax.

 

[Hadders]

Sainsbury's and their ilk are being given a free pass in relation to the pandemic e.g. being allowed to continue alcohol sales without hindrance, unlike licensed premises. If they cannot make good money in these unprecedented circumstances, then when can they? The fact is, they ARE making money, but these firms always want more, on behalf of their shareholders of course, not to mention salary bonuses for the bosses.

I can assure you it's not exactly a free pass. For example:

- Sales of most products strong (good for profitability)
- Staff absence running at over twice normal levels (bad for profit)
- More generous paid sick schemes introduced - up tp 12 weeks on full pay for vulnerable staff who were shielding (bad for profit)
- More staff being employed (the 'admin' costs of this is huge) (bad for profit)
- More generous bonus schemes introduced for staff in recognition of their key worker role (bad for profit)
- Cost of enforcing social distancing, e.g checkout screens, additional cleaning, staff to enforce queues etc (bad for profit)
- Inefficiencies in stores and especially depots caused by social distancing (bad for profit)
- Sales of General Merchandise and clothing significantly impacted. Stock in these areas is ordered on 6+ month lead time. Where does this stock go in the meantime if it cannot be sold? (bad for profit)
- Closure of restaurants means more eating from home (good for profit)
- Petrol and diesel sales massively down (bad for profit)
- Massive expansion of online business (online sales cost more to process due to the technology involved, cost of labour to pick orders and delivery infrastructure)

 

[johntea]

The in store Argos experience is still rather frustrating, they got rid of the simple stock checkers for fancy screens which can show the catalogue but are slower than treacle and unresponsive to use, order anything with an age limit and you're forced to queue up for the staffed till, who are seemingly held at gunpoint to hit their targets on flogging extended warranty and Argos cards (I appreciate not the fault of the member of staff, but annoying to be asked every single time as a customer!)

Returns can also be rather problematic depending on what mood the manager is in on the day!

They basically seem fine for lower priced goods but for larger purchases other retailers always seem the more attractive option

I would be interested to see the figures regarding same day delivery usage, I don't think I've ever been in a position where I've thought 'I MUST BUY XYZ AND HAVE IT BY THE END OF TODAY!', in fact quite the opposite I'm a tight bugger and if free delivery is on offer for 5 days I'll just select that!

 

[C J Snarzell]

Another thing Amazon is not very good at is paying tax.

I don't think they treat their employees very well either. I think Ken Loache's 2019 film 'Sorry We Missed You' is based on Amazon in all but name.

CJ

 

[richw]

You can blame Aldi and Lidl for that. The media are constantly comparing those two with the big four, bigging up the increases of the discounters and announcing every decline in the UK four. It seems people just want the lowest prices with no fancy stuff like counters.

Indeed. I'm not keen on having all the food piled on the floor, personally.

I avoid those two like the plague. I don’t see the attraction. Poor checkout system, big queues, Aldi food quality is very poor in my opinion.

Sainsbury’s want to shift Argos to as much click and collect as possible. That way they can offer the full range to all stores without having massive amounts of money tied up in stock in every store

Since covid my local Argos stores have only offered C&C and home delivery, maybe it’s proven a success. You can’t enter the stores speculatively to browse the catalogue etc.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the title of this thread, how many website members actually believe that this is "The beginning of the end for Sainsbury's"?

 

[Mojo]

Looking at the title of this thread, how many website members actually believe that this is "The beginning of the end for Sainsbury's"?

Not me.

 

[Mag_seven]

Looking at the title of this thread, how many website members actually believe that this is "The beginning of the end for Sainsbury's"?

Only if they get taken over.

 

[yorksrob]

Looking at the title of this thread, how many website members actually believe that this is "The beginning of the end for Sainsbury's"?

If a shop becomes the same, in essence, as it's competitors, can it be said to still "exist" ?