The Budget..I'm Gasping !!!

[SS4]

And nothing abotu the 24 million other people who will also be paying less tax - thats a good thing is it not?

Liberal Democrat policy.

How many of those 24 million are unemployed due to the obvious failure of the private sector to create jobs like a certain party said they would?

 

[IanXC]

I remember when the 50% tax rate was introduced - it was only a temporary measure and wouldnt be in place for long......

But then income tax started life as a temporary measure!

And nothing abotu the 24 million other people who will also be paying less tax - thats a good thing is it not?

I could not agree more. Much more efficient and effective than tax credits for incentivising work.

 

[Ivo]

How many of those 24 million are unemployed due to the obvious failure of the private sector to create jobs like a certain party said they would?

And Labour would have done any better in ensuring this? I think not.

 

[Clip]

Liberal Democrat policy.

How many of those 24 million are unemployed due to the obvious failure of the private sector to create jobs like a certain party said they would?

Doesnt matter whose it maybe the facts are they are 'in it together' so its been done and its usefull.


well to answer your second question - none of them are unemployed. They are all working people. The unemployed dont pay income tax so they cant pay any less now can they

Jobs dont come out of thin air - I think you're sensible enough to know that - but jobs are being created still in the private sector - Nissan, for starters - so dont sit there and try and say they are not. It takes more then 2 years of being in government to make 2 million jobs available.

 

[yorksrob]

Yet another assault on the great institution synonymous with the warp and weft of British life that is the pub.

 

[Ferret]

Yet another assault on the great institution synonymous with the warp and weft of British life that is the pub.

Ridiculous part of the budget that was, and it annoyed me far more than the 'granny tax'. When will Politicians get a grip on this country's relationship with alcohol? I'd much rather people drank a few bevvies in the controlled environment of a pub than on the streets. Ah yes, and when was the law on being drunk and disorderly repealed?

 

[gswindale]

5% more though will be quite a considerable figure.
40% of £35000 being £14000
45% of 1.5mill being £675000 50% being £750000, so an extra £75000 that 5% will equate to

However it is 0% of the first 8k (rising to 9k next year) followed by 20% on any salary up to 35k (or whatever the threshold is) - making you pay 20% on approx 27k. Then from 35k to 150k you are paying at 40% but only on that section of your salary, so it is 40% on 115k tops.

If you happen to be paid 160k now, you'll be paying tax at 50% on 10k which amounts to 5k and will reduce to 4.5k as a result of this change. Thus you will be £500 better off at the top end plus whatever we've all gained from the tax free allowance increase.

Sent by Androids

 

[Butts]

As for the OP, it should be pointed out that smokers are an easy target.

Despite the price going up significantly every year and the smoking ban stopping people lighting up inside commercial/public premises, people still smoke in large numbers.

The only thing that would stop Chancellors (of any party) from raising the cost of a packet of fags would be for large numbers to stop smoking. But as they are too addicted, they don't. Hence it being a simple tax to raise each year.

Personally I'd have predicted five years ago that the smoking ban would have seen the number of smokers come down significantly, but the reality is that its had nothing like as big a different in numbers as was intended, people can't quit.

About the only consolation is that even an £8 packet of twenty is only 40p per fag. Not much compared to some of life's "luxuries"...

With reference to your earlier posts, perhaps you should consider the fact that excise duty on cigarettes is effectively a regressive tax. As most smokers are poor wealth is being redistributed from poor to rich people which I suspect in any other area of taxation you would disapprove of.

By the way I did mention smokers were an easy target in my opening post.

 

[Kneedown]

Maybe you should try this.

Never mind the quitkit. Mine just had a few leaflets and a toothbrush. Didn't help at all.

I've cut down about 75% on tobacco in the last fortnight just by investing in an electronic cigarette. They look and taste like the real thing, give you the same "hit", and replacement cartridges (equivalent of 20-30 cig's) cost about a £1 each if you buy in bulk.
I'd recommend to anyone trying to cut down or quit.

 

[LE Greys]

Ridiculous part of the budget that was, and it annoyed me far more than the 'granny tax'. When will Politicians get a grip on this country's relationship with alcohol? I'd much rather people drank a few bevvies in the controlled environment of a pub than on the streets. Ah yes, and when was the law on being drunk and disorderly repealed?

Agreed there. Put the retail price per unit in supermarkets/offies up to the same level as in pubs. Would people then choose to drink at home or on street corners? No, I think the pub atmosphere would draw them in.

 

[Butts]

Never mind the quitkit. Mine just had a few leaflets and a toothbrush. Didn't help at all.

I've cut down about 75% on tobacco in the last fortnight just by investing in an electronic cigarette. They look and taste like the real thing, give you the same "hit", and replacement cartridges (equivalent of 20-30 cig's) cost about a £1 each if you buy in bulk.
I'd recommend to anyone trying to cut down or quit.

Do they really give you the same "hit" as a proper cigarette - the "lung blast" not the nicotine effect

 

[Yew]

Agreed there. Put the retail price per unit in supermarkets/offies up to the same level as in pubs. Would people then choose to drink at home or on street corners? No, I think the pub atmosphere would draw them in.

But the government seems to think my generation have an alcohol problem, desipite us following the average for the last 500 years. The problem was in the 50's they didnt drink enough

High pricing, and regulations on driving dont help, meaning people drink in the evenings, and will often go out once a week and get plastered, instead of the 2/3 times a week and get a bit 'buzzed' that would happen in the past. And since people dont drink at lunch, they are forced into the evenings, where there is more temptation to keep going until they go to bed.

Overall, every measure to reduce the so called drinking 'problem' makes it worse.

 

[SS4]

But the government seems to think my generation have an alcohol problem, desipite us following the average for the last 500 years. The problem was in the 50's they didnt drink enough

High pricing, and regulations on driving dont help, meaning people drink in the evenings, and will often go out once a week and get plastered, instead of the 2/3 times a week and get a bit 'buzzed' that would happen in the past. And since people dont drink at lunch, they are forced into the evenings, where there is more temptation to keep going until they go to bed.

Overall, every measure to reduce the so called drinking 'problem' makes it worse.

I was under the impression the amount being drunk was in decline. Can't find any stats to back it up though so correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think pricing will work, the price of drink is increasing massively. Spirits are about £20 per 700ml bottle and drinking in pubs is too expensive (Wetherspoons excluded). I'd like to see a cut in duty but it won't happen for the same reason tbtc said for smokers.

Something has to be done though but exactly what I don't know

 

[Kneedown]

Do they really give you the same "hit" as a proper cigarette - the "lung blast" not the nicotine effect

They work for me, same blast, same hit, and can still blow smoke rings!
I'm a long time smoker and was amazed at how good they are. If you're not convinced, Tesco have disposable ones at £5.99 a go so you can give a basic model a go.
My rechargable one has a choice of many different brands, as well as nicotine strength.

 

[mickpop]

I wish I was a Member of Parliament or indeed Chancellor - I would have aboloished excise duty on Tobacco from midnight tonight.

When Eleven Billion Pounds disappeared from the tax chest and an alternative source of funding had to be found all the whingeing "ash brigade" may have sat down and thought perhaps those "smoking suckers" were not quite such bad chaps after all

Ok we save a few billion on the NHS but as they will be living longer a lot of that will be negated by the extra benefits and pensions they will now be able to collect.

As for the pensioners moaning about their tax allowances being curbed , I would have removed the differential immediately instead of gradually. If they get enough to pay tax they are not poor. While were at it lets make them pay 50p for each bus journey and free up the bus service for the workers

Well you're all heart - but maybe not a very healthy one. At the present cost of ciggies you will probably end up mugging pensioners to afford the addiction so keeping them wealthy is probably a good idea.

 

[tbtc]

With reference to your earlier posts, perhaps you should consider the fact that excise duty on cigarettes is effectively a regressive tax. As most smokers are poor wealth is being redistributed from poor to rich people which I suspect in any other area of taxation you would disapprove of.

By the way I did mention smokers were an easy target in my opening post.

Aye, I was just making the point that, despite all the price rises, most smokers I know still smoke, and still smoke as much as they did five years ago.

The 50% tax rate saw people shift their earnings around to avoid paying tax (dropping their salary in lieu of shares, changing pension contributions etc). However, despite eye watering increases in the cost of smoking most smokers carry on doing it. Most tax rises see a change in behaviour but not smokers.

 

[Butts]

Well you're all heart - but maybe not a very healthy one. At the present cost of ciggies you will probably end up mugging pensioners to afford the addiction so keeping them wealthy is probably a good idea.

Did I mention I was Chancellor in a "Monster Raving Loony Party" coalition with Plaid Cymru :roll:

 

[tbtc]

Did I mention I was Chancellor in a "Monster Raving Loony Party" coalition with Plaid Cymru :roll:

I think the Loonies have had more of their policies become law than the LibDems

 

[SS4]

I think the Loonies have had more of their policies become law than the LibDems

Unless Lib Dem policy is to agree with everything the Tories say. Events bear this out

 

[Zoe]

Unless Lib Dem policy is to agree with everything the Tories say. Events bear this out

What choice do they have though? If they break out of the coalition and an eleciton ends up getting called (due to a vote of no confidence and no government formed within two weeks) they will likely be decimated.

 

[yorksrob]

Ridiculous part of the budget that was, and it annoyed me far more than the 'granny tax'. When will Politicians get a grip on this country's relationship with alcohol? I'd much rather people drank a few bevvies in the controlled environment of a pub than on the streets. Ah yes, and when was the law on being drunk and disorderly repealed?

Indeed. They would be better off tackling the ridiculously cheap booze in supermarkets.

I must admit, I didn't see the pasty tax coming either Bad news for the pie sellers at amatuer sports clubs.

 

[SS4]

What choice do they have though? If the break out of the coalition and an eleciton ends up getting called (due to a vote of no confidence and no government formed within two weeks) they will likely be decimated.

Nowadays yes and they're merely postponing the inevitable annihilation at the next election (they'll be lucky to get decimated and hold onto 90% of their seats). If they had a backbone at the election they'd have been able to save themselves as a party and vote on policy where it suited them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. They would be better off tackling the ridiculously cheap booze in supermarkets.

I must admit, I didn't see the pasty tax coming either Bad news for the pie sellers at amatuer sports clubs.

Ridiculously cheap?! Compared to what? Distilling it yourself?

 

[Butts]

What choice do they have though? If the break out of the coalition and an eleciton ends up getting called (due to a vote of no confidence and no government formed within two weeks) they will likely be decimated.

The main problem is that people in the UK (as a whole) have little experience of a Coalition Government.

You are not going to get everything you want as you have to compromise, but at least you get a little more than if outside of power. It is unrealistic to expect the LD's to be able to implement everything they would wish to, and to blame them every time they have to back peddle on something is ludicrous.

 

[Zoe]

Nowadays yes and they're merely postponing the inevitable annihilation at the next election (they'll be lucky to get decimated and hold onto 90% of their seats). If they had a backbone at the election they'd have been able to save themselves as a party and vote on policy where it suited them.

I had a LibDem knock on the door last year and I talked to him about this and he said that they had no choice. Basically it wasn't possible to form a coalition with Labour and command the majority of the house so as soon as it was clear Brown couldn't get the support he needed he would have resigned and Cameron would have been called to form a government. The danger here was that Cameron would have just called another election which the Tories may well have resulted in a Tory majority and the LibDems would then have had absolutel no say in the decisions.

 

[yorksrob]

Ridiculously cheap?! Compared to what? Distilling it yourself?

Compared to the pub of course.

Not that the sort of beer I drink is ridiculously cheap in supermarkets of course. I'm thinking more those big bottles of cider that end up strewn about the place.

 

[tony_mac]

Most tax rises see a change in behaviour but not smokers.

I'm not sure there is much evidence to support that - although high taxes dissuading people from starting may have more effect.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i62.full

Results: Tobacco company documents provide clear evidence on the impact of cigarette prices on cigarette smoking, describing how tax related and other price increases lead to significant reductions in smoking, particularly among young persons.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-03-27-tobacco-tax_N.htm

"There's very good evidence that adolescents are the most price-sensitive," Klein said.

New York state, which has among the highest tobacco tax rates in the nation, has seen a decline in teenage smoking. States with lower taxes have not, Klein said.

 

[Butts]

I'm not sure there is much evidence to support that - although high taxes dissuading people from starting may have more effect.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i62.full

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-03-27-tobacco-tax_N.htm

What you will find is the "grey market" for smuggled tobacco will increase as a result of the duty hike.

It is estimated the exchequer loses £2 Billion per year to the smugglers.

Forget any moral argument about reducing consumption and health concerns it is a pure revenue raising exercise on the part of the government. If they really wanted to depress sales they would have whacked a pound on a packet of 20. Although the market is almost inelastic this measure would have forced sales down and decreased their yield. They are staying just the right side of maintaining income from the excise duty and vat on smokes.

 

[Ferret]

I had a LibDem knock on the door last year and I talked to him about this and he said that they had no choice. Basically it wasn't possible to form a coalition with Labour and command the majority of the house so as soon as it was clear Brown couldn't get the support he needed he would have resigned and Cameron would have been called to form a government. The danger here was that Cameron would have just called another election which the Tories may well have resulted in a Tory majority and the LibDems would then have had absolutel no say in the decisions.

That was pretty much how I saw it at the time. Alas the LibDems have received no credit for doing the best thing for the Country at the time. The tuition fees farce robbed them of their core support too, but looking at things pragmatically, would the NHS bill not have been worse without Lib Dem involvement, and would the income tax threshold have been raised towards £10k with a majority Tory government? Probably not.

The one issue I have with the Lib Dems is their refusal to talk sensibly about Europe despite a large swathe of public opinion wanting changes. While I'd not be at all happy (for that read furious!) if the extreme right-wing had their way and pulled us out, our Parliament should have far more control over our affairs. I honestly think that Europe could be a deciding factor at the next election...

 

[IanXC]

If you happen to be paid 160k now, you'll be paying tax at 50% on 10k which amounts to 5k and will reduce to 4.5k as a result of this change. Thus you will be £500 better off at the top end plus whatever we've all gained from the tax free allowance increase.

Except that the point at which 40% tax is payable has been reduced/not increased to ensure that higher rate tax payers do not benefit from the increased personal allowance.

 

[Madge Wildfire]

I really cant see why the media keep banging on about a granny tax. They have not taxed grannies, just not raised the their tax free allowance which is almost double the amount of the state pension anyway, so it is not affecting a majority of pensioners.

Why should old folk have a higher tax threshold than working people?

They already get free prescriptions, free eye tests, free off peak bus travel in most areas, cheap train travel if the buy a railcard, reduced entry fees to most events or historic properties and extra money to pay for winter fuel bills.

:roll: