The end of signal boxes

[crewmeal]

Network Rail will have their work cut out in the Worcester area. I don't think there is a single light to be seen!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19435464

 

[oversteer]

So if they are easy to move, where can I buy one?

 

[John Webb]

There's also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19464080 which lists the ten best boxes, which to my great pleasure includes St Albans South, where I'm one of the members of the preservation trust - indeed two of the three pictures in the article mentioned by crewmeal are also of our box.
Now for the plug - we're open 10am-5pm this coming Saturday and Sunday (8th/9th September) in connection with the national Heritage Open Days event. See http://www.sigbox.co.uk for further details,location map etc.

 

[yorksrob]

A nice selection of boxes, although I'm a bit disappointed they didn't include one of the Southern Railway's Odeon style ones.

 

[Tiny Tim]

It's going to be a very long time before the last signal box is decommissioned, and they'll still be plenty to see on heritage lines. Meanwhile, groups such as that at St Alban's South will have the opportunity to preserve a representative sample, or move them to heritage line locations. It won't be possible to preserve everything, and not really necessary.

 

[CockneySparrow]

It's going to be a very long time before the last signal box is decommissioned, and they'll still be plenty to see on heritage lines. Meanwhile, groups such as that at St Alban's South will have the opportunity to preserve a representative sample, or move them to heritage line locations. It won't be possible to preserve everything, and not really necessary.

NR won't never be able to decommissioned, there will be at least one box somewhere where they will have a problem getting rid of

 

[lordhinton]

Narborough station for example if they got rid of that (highly unlikely as the whole stations old) they'd still have to build another building to house the crossing equipment seems unreasonable to me..

Sent from my ST18i using Tapatalk 2

 

[mallard]

Quite. Just because a box is decommissioned doesn't mean it'll get immediately (or ever) demolished. Some will need to be retained to house equipment, some will almost certainly find further use, such as storerooms, break rooms, etc.

There are already a good number of decommissioned boxes still standing, some of which have been decommissioned for many years.

 

[Robsignals]

NR won't never be able to decommissioned, there will be at least one box somewhere where they will have a problem getting rid of

These are the traditional small boxes. NR have started on a scheme to control the entire network from 14 Route Operating Centres, ROCs, housed in modern office blocks.

 

[Rick1984]

The shrewsbury severn bridge junction must be hard work for the two operators. 300 trains a day!

 

[CockneySparrow]

These are the traditional small boxes. NR have started on a scheme to control the entire network from 14 Route Operating Centres, ROCs, housed in modern office blocks.

Yeah I know its the small boxes, I live along the breckland line so know what they are doing

Law of averages says that they won't be able to get rid of all boxes, one will be a problem to them

 

[Metroland]

NR seem to be pushing ahead quite quickly. Building work has already started on the York and Three Bridges ROCs. I suspect Romford, Manchester, Rugby and Basingstoke won't be far behind. The buildings at Didcot, Saltley, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Derby are already there. In the case of the West Midlands SCC, by 2020 virtually all the West Midlands will be controlled by it. The Kidderminster line has just gone over, followed by the Wallsall and Cannock lines next year, Wolverhampton the following year, then Banbury/Leamington area (unless it's slipped again), the Cross city North and South recontrol and resignalled, and Birmingham New Street area in 2016-18.

The East Midlands area is also coming on a pace, with Trent PSB closing next year after Nottingham resignalling, probably followed by the Grantham and Lincoln lines, Leicester to Peterborough and Derby area.

There's a complete list here

http://www.signalbox.org/sectionc.php

Though it's very subject to change, the joint line between Peterborough and Lincoln has already accelerated ahead.

Also changing is the control software. More details here

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/news/2...nagement-system-for-a-more-efficient-railway/

 

[Welshman]

Quite. Just because a box is decommissioned doesn't mean it'll get immediately (or ever) demolished. Some will need to be retained to house equipment, some will almost certainly find further use, such as storerooms, break rooms, etc.

....and some may have a preservation order slapped on them, like the one at the west end of Rhyl station!

 

[lincolnshire]

....and some may have a preservation order slapped on them, like the one at the west end of Rhyl station!

Also one at Howden is a Listed Building on the line from Hull to Leeds, its a typical example of an NER railway signal box. Its now a few years since it was taken out of use.

 

[phil8715]

Birmingham New Street?

In that case why Isn't Preston, Carlisle and Warrington PSB's not listed?

 

[dave55uk]

I am amazed to read that Kings Cross-Hitchin will be controlled from Three Bridges.

 

[D1009]

Birmingham New Street?

In that case why Isn't Preston, Carlisle and Warrington PSB's not listed?

Because Birmingham New Street box has
“A real sculptural quality in the ribbing of its pre-cast concrete panels which are suspended from a concrete frame, and was specially designed to fit a restricted site.”

I think it's an eyesore, but others know more about this than me.

 

[TheBigD]

I am amazed to read that Kings Cross-Hitchin will be controlled from Three Bridges.

A lot of the services will be going onto the Thameslink route, which will also be controlled by Three Bridges.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't worry. It's just the greater Southern Region flexing it's muscle

 

[Robsignals]

I'm not sure if all full barrier crossings will be CCTV operated from the ROCs or if some gate boxes (Road Interface Supervision Centres - RISCs?) will remain. I believe an 'object detection' system is being developed to automate these crossings but it would be very brave, or foolish, to not have an operator visually check that each crossing is clear. Imagine large darkened rooms with 30 - 50 operators hunched over screens jumping rapidly from one 'xing to another as soon as they press 'Clear'.

 

[DarloRich]

I am amazed to read that Kings Cross-Hitchin will be controlled from Three Bridges.

why? It could just as easily be controlled from Inverness or York

 

[CockneySparrow]

I'm not sure if all full barrier crossings will be CCTV operated from the ROCs or if some gate boxes (Road Interface Supervision Centres - RISCs?) will remain. I believe an 'object detection' system is being developed to automate these crossings but it would be very brave, or foolish, to not have an operator visually check that each crossing is clear. Imagine large darkened rooms with 30 - 50 operators hunched over screens jumping rapidly from one 'xing to another as soon as they press 'Clear'.

These types of crossing have just been introduced on the Breckland line

 

[DJ737]

G'day
The Melbourne-Sydney mainline runs past my house here in the suburbs of Melbourne and is controlled from Adelaide 700km away.

There isn't really any reason why railway signalling can't be outsourced to cheaper countries these days, Most of the British mainlines could be run from a signalling centre in an office block in India for example.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[iphone76]

Please no!

 

[dave55uk]

Please no!

Absolutely. God forbid if it did. <shudders>

 

[Metroland]

There isn't really any reason why railway signalling can't be outsourced to cheaper countries these days, Most of the British mainlines could be run from a signalling centre in an office block in India for example.

Apart from strategic reasons! I don't think having our water, energy and critical transport infrastructure controlled from other countries is a good idea "because it's a bit cheaper!".

Although I think there's a plan for all European airspace (including the UK) to be controlled from Maastricht.

 

[Toots]

I'm not sure if all full barrier crossings will be CCTV operated from the ROCs or if some gate boxes (Road Interface Supervision Centres - RISCs?) will remain. I believe an 'object detection' system is being developed to automate these crossings but it would be very brave, or foolish, to not have an operator visually check that each crossing is clear. Imagine large darkened rooms with 30 - 50 operators hunched over screens jumping rapidly from one 'xing to another as soon as they press 'Clear'.

The object detection crossings won't be visually checked Rob,it's a system that is apparently already being successfully worked in Germany and has already been trialled here in Bridlington.What I would say however is that if these type of crossings are misused to the extent that some of the present one's are,both manned and unmanned,then this could cause a few problems in regards to performance.
As to whether the whole scheme will end with all the signalling done from fourteen signalling centres?..if you had have asked me last year I would have doubted the prospect,but now?,yep I think it well might do...

 

[tsr]

Do people think we can see a future when station adoption scheme members use signalboxes near to the relevant stations as storerooms and staff facilities? I think there are a few cases where this is already done, but I can't remember where! I feel that volunteers who prove themselves capable of helping to maintain a station to a good standard should be allowed to do this if they have the time, requirements and inclination to do so.

 

[lincolnshire]

The object detection crossings won't be visually checked Rob,it's a system that is apparently already being successfully worked in Germany and has already been trialled here in Bridlington.What I would say however is that if these type of crossings are misused to the extent that some of the present one's are,both manned and unmanned,then this could cause a few problems in regards to performance.
As to whether the whole scheme will end with all the signalling done from fourteen signalling centres?..if you had have asked me last year I would have doubted the prospect,but now?,yep I think it well might do...

The crossing been trialed is at Filey , between Bridlington And Seamer , its not a busy line and no trains on a sunday and its Cinderella railway too up there.
( That is the railway closes overnight) .

I think you will find its full steam ahead now the Olympics is finished to get rid of signal boxes, not to improve the train running but to cut the wages bill permanently, reduction in staff and wages big time.

 

[Tomnick]

Do people think we can see a future when station adoption scheme members use signalboxes near to the relevant stations as storerooms and staff facilities? I think there are a few cases where this is already done, but I can't remember where! I feel that volunteers who prove themselves capable of helping to maintain a station to a good standard should be allowed to do this if they have the time, requirements and inclination to do so.

Operational signal boxes? Definitely not! Otherwise (as I suspect you mean), I think it'd be a good idea if it helps to keep the structure looking cared for and hopefully less attractive to vandals. The main problem would be access in some cases, and maintenance on the outside of the structure unless the railway continued to provide this.