The inspector took my ticket and railcard, what exactly are waiting for me?

[bb21]

I find it intriguing that you say you are an international student, yet you do not appear to have sufficient funds to allow you to carry out your studies without resorting to working in this country? How did you demonstrate that you had sufficient funds when you applied for your visa?

I am also interested to know how you would have paid for your fare had you selected the correct Railcard.

I don't think any speculation from other forum members as to how many times you may have underpaid in the past is helpful, and should be simply ignored, but on this occasion, it would appear to me that you were unable to pay for the correct fare and this may well be interpreted as an intention to not pay the correct fare in a court of law, should this proceed that far, and that is an outcome you should strive to avoid.

So in all, I think your best option is try to negotiate an out-of-court settlement with Northern, typically £80, and make sure that you pay the correct fare from now on.

If you want to still benefit from the 16-25 Railcard discount on your travels, you need to buy a new one, as you will almost certainly not see your current one again.

The Guard shouldn't have offered an excess. He should have sold a new, full fare standard single ticket. Missing Railcards should never be excessed.

Technically yes.

But the sticking point in this case is that fundamentally the ticket was only invalid due to a time restriction (1000), so offering an excess up to the correct fare is an entirely reasonable course of action.

 

[najaB]

How did you demonstrate that you had sufficient funds when you applied for your visa?

Not all international students need to obtain a visa.

I am also interested to know how you would have paid for your fare had you selected the correct Railcard.

I share your concern about this point.

So in all, I think your best option is try to negotiate an out-of-court settlement with Northern, typically £80, and make sure that you pay the correct fare from now on.

If you want to still benefit from the 16-25 Railcard discount on your travels, you need to buy a new one, as you will almost certainly not see your current one again.

Agree with both points.

 

[sweetlove07]

Well I do need a visa and of course the Home Office/UKBA had approved my application and finance status therefore I gained my leave to remain for a few years. In order to carry on my study, I always pay all the tuition fees when the term starts, and I have permission to work in the UK so normally money is doesnt matter to me but it's life, sometimes you go up and you go down. I am a bartender as a part time job so it's a bit difficult to keep the money-flow nice and tidy to be honest.

I gonna buy a new railcard 16-25 asap and I think now I am full aware of the time restrictions and just want to make myself clear to you guys, I haven't never ever tried to dodge a fare or intended to do anything which abuse your country's laws and systems.

When I receive the letter from them, I will try to make an out-of-court settlement and hopefully you guys can advice me later on or proof-read at least and of course I gonna pay the fare whatever it costs because I want to get rid of this

And last but not least, someone above mention about the ticket conductor gonna write a report about my case and the prosecution teams gonna make a decision whether to issue a fare on me/put it on the court or not so are there any chance they gonna forget about it because they think my case is waste their time? And the question is IF they are working on my case, am I able to buy/renew my railcard?

Thanks you guys a lot for reading and advices. Cheers.

 

[221129]

Well I do need a visa and of course the Home Office/UKBA had approved my application and finance status therefore I gained my leave to remain for a few years. In order to carry on my study, I always pay all the tuition fees when the term starts, and I have permission to work in the UK so normally money is doesnt matter to me but it's life, sometimes you go up and you go down. I am a bartender as a part time job so it's a bit difficult to keep the money-flow nice and tidy to be honest.

I gonna buy a new railcard 16-25 asap and I think now I am full aware of the time restrictions and just want to make myself clear to you guys, I haven't never ever tried to dodge a fare or intended to do anything which abuse your country's laws and systems.

When I receive the letter from them, I will try to make an out-of-court settlement and hopefully you guys can advice me later on or proof-read at least and of course I gonna pay the fare whatever it costs because I want to get rid of this

And last but not least, someone above mention about the ticket conductor gonna write a report about my case and the prosecution teams gonna make a decision whether to issue a fare on me/put it on the court or not so are there any chance they gonna forget about it because they think my case is waste their time? And the question is IF they are working on my case, am I able to buy/renew my railcard?

Thanks you guys a lot for reading and advices. Cheers.

I would say it is unlikely to be forgotten about. Yes you can buy a new railcard whilst they decide the outcome of your case.

 

[bb21]

Unless I am very much mistaken, a condition for the granting of a Tier 4 student visa is that you are able to support yourself without resorting to working. If you are heavily relying on money from your part-time job to get you through the academic year then questions will surely be raised as to whether you had sufficient funds to support yourself or not. If you did, the ups and downs of the job market should have little impact on your ability to support yourself. The main purpose of a Tier 4 visa is to study and not to work. The permission on engaging in part-time work is on the premise of allowing students to gain work experience, not as a main source of income.

We are not an immigration forum so I have no real interest in what your situation is in that respect, but the way you described it raises important questions which you may wish to ponder over should you wish to extend your stay in the future.

When you receive a letter from the company and drafted a reply, you are free to post it (leaving out confidential bits) and I am sure there will be people willing to proofread it for you.

 

[222007]

Missing Railcards should never be excessed.

Unless your travelling on CrossCountry who's policy it is to excess

The OP states that they did not know of the minimum fare before 10am. Actually it is in the terms and conditions of your railcard which should ALWAYS be read and railcard signed.

 

[sheeldz]

Unless I am very much mistaken, a condition for the granting of a Tier 4 student visa is that you are able to support yourself without resorting to working. If you are heavily relying on money from your part-time job to get you through the academic year then questions will surely be raised as to whether you had sufficient funds to support yourself or not. If you did, the ups and downs of the job market should have little impact on your ability to support yourself. The main purpose of a Tier 4 visa is to study and not to work. The permission on engaging in part-time work is on the premise of allowing students to gain work experience, not as a main source of income.

We are not an immigration forum so I have no real interest in what your situation is in that respect, but the way you described it raises important questions which you may wish to ponder over should you wish to extend your stay in the future.

I personally believe that you're out of line for even suggesting this. Not only is it immaterial to the subject at hand, it's arrogant to say the least. If the visa allows working during studies (which it does) who are you to judge someone on their choice to work during their studies, and then to suggest they consider not staying in the UK because of it?

 

[bnm]

Indeed.

The interjections on visa status are unwarranted, based on assumptions (lots of 'ifs') and way off topic. Totally unnecessary, adding nothing to help the OP with his rail ticketing issue, and, had they come from a 'normal' forum member, would likely have been subject to moderation for both their content and for being off topic.

The forum rules apply to all don't they?

We are not an immigration forum so I have no real interest in what your situation is in that respect, but the way you described it raises important questions which you may wish to ponder over should you wish to extend your stay in the future.

Enough interest to bring it up apparently and to direct the OP to consider his position. :roll:

I don't think any speculation from other forum members as to how many times you may have underpaid in the past is helpful, and should be simply ignored

I don't think any speculation from forum moderators on the OP's visa status is helpful, and should simply be ignored.

(That's me in trouble)

 

[najaB]

(That's me in trouble)

But worth it though. Fight the power!

 

[Tetchytyke]

a condition for the granting of a Tier 4 student visa is that you are able to support yourself without resorting to working.

Sort of, but in reality how it works is a student must have a set amount of cleared funds in their bank account on their day of arrival in the UK. There are obvious loopholes in this policy. Financial struggles for international students are not uncommon, especially as international students find it very hard to access hardship funding from universities for the reason you've stated.

But to get back to the OP's situation, they bought a fare that was less than what they should have paid and, when offered a chance to sort the situation out, refused. I'll let others decide whether this was due to genuine financial hardship or whether the OP expected the matter to be quietly forgotten about because they were not a permanent UK resident.

I would expect the TOC to offer an out-of-court settlement (on Northern it is £80, TPE may offer a similar amount or they may not). This will be significantly more expensive than buying the correct ticket in the first place, as it should be.

 

[najaB]

But to get back to the OP's situation, they bought a fare that was less than what they should have paid and, when offered a chance to sort the situation out, refused.

AIUI, they were willing but unable to pay it. I don't know if that makes much difference in the grand scheme of things though.

I would expect the TOC to offer an out-of-court settlement (on Northern it is £80, TPE may offer a similar amount or they may not). This will be significantly more expensive than buying the correct ticket in the first place, as it should be.

I pretty much agree with your assessment there - I'd be surprised if, in the end, it costs less than £50 or more than £100 to sort this out.

 

[tony6499]

Maybe the bank card was online transactions only hence it being refused when offered to pay the excess to the RPI/Conductor ? So the OP maybe had the funds but unable to process the transaction which is unfortunate as it would have been done and dusted for £1.85

 

[najaB]

Maybe the bank card was online transactions only hence it being refused when offered to pay the excess to the RPI/Conductor ? So the OP maybe had the funds but unable to process the transaction which is unfortunate as it would have been done and dusted for £1.85

They have posted that they didn't have the funds in their account, so it wouldn't matter if it was an online-only card.

 

[tony6499]

They have posted that they didn't have the funds in their account, so it wouldn't matter if it was an online-only card.

I got confused with the bit about being surprised it was declined, which it would have been if there had been no money in there

 

[najaB]

I got confused with the bit about being surprised it was declined, which it would have been if there had been no money in there

Perhaps they were hoping that they had just enough. I know I've been there a few too many times - a roulette wheel has nothing on waiting to see if it comes up 'Approved' or 'Declined'.

 

[PermitToTravel]

But surely an Avantix won't ever decline a transaction because of a lack of funds as it can't go online to check how much funds there are in the account?

 

[najaB]

But surely an Avantix won't ever decline a transaction because of a lack of funds as it can't go online to check how much funds there are in the account?

As I understand it (and this is way outside my area of expertise) if someone has an offline-capable card, but uses it in their own bank's ATM when their account is overdrawn, it is possible for the ATM to set it to online-only mode for subsequent transactions. Agreed though that it is more likely that it was an online-only card and would have declined either way.

 

[bb21]

I personally believe that you're out of line for even suggesting this. Not only is it immaterial to the subject at hand, it's arrogant to say the least. If the visa allows working during studies (which it does) who are you to judge someone on their choice to work during their studies, and then to suggest they consider not staying in the UK because of it?

There is a very important reason why I mentioned these points. If I can ask these questions, which are reasonable questions to ask given the OP's account of the incident, then so can the Home Office. Dealings with the Home Office are full of minefields, and any reason they can use to question the ability of an applicant to support himself will be used against the applicant. This emphasises the importance of trying to keep the matter out of court, perhaps more so than for many other people who come on here, for whom a simple Byelaw conviction (which we all know may mistakenly be recorded in some cases) may just mean burning a small hole in the pocket.

If you think I am judging the OP, then I apologise, as that was not my intention, but not having even a couple of pounds, if found out by the Home Office, will cause problems, and these are the inferrences that the Home Office will draw, unless a good reason can be given, which the OP may or may not have. How do I know? From experience. That is a factor the OP does have to take into account.

That is all I will say on this matter. I feel these are quite important factors that the OP would need to take into account in deciding how to proceed with the matter, and most definitely not irrelevant or off-topic.

 

[PermitToTravel]

As I understand it (and this is way outside my area of expertise) if someone has an offline-capable card, but uses it in their own bank's ATM when their account is overdrawn, it is possible for the ATM to set it to online-only mode for subsequent transactions. Agreed though that it is more likely that it was an online-only card and would have declined either way.

That does sound possible, though I agree with your assessment of the probabilities

 

[plastictaffy]

But the sticking point in this case is that fundamentally the ticket was only invalid due to a time restriction (1000), so offering an excess up to the correct fare is an entirely reasonable course of action.

Depends on the Guard, to be honest!!!!