The London Midland Staff Shortage and Cancellation/Bustitution Thread

[A-driver]

I'm not saying they should invest in training drivers to see them leave, I'm saying they should invest in keeping drivers-make themselves desirable to work for to compete with the other TOCs which drivers appear to be leaving to work for.

And I doubt that is the only reason. If LM is run like certain other govia TOCs I know if then there is a good chance half the drivers and guards are sitting off track for months on end following very minor (not even safety of the line) incidents. This will not be helping and is purely poor management. I don't know if that is the case here but knowing other govia TOCs I have a strong suspicion...

 

[embers25]

Got caught up in the canx today although the additional issues with OHLE at Crewe proved rather useful as that meant Virgin accepting tickets between Liverpool and Euston..the guard from Stafford was not impressed though when I showed him my Great Escape with Network Card discount!!!! He first said that Virgin weren't taking tickets from LM as a result of their staff shortage cancellations. I said fine but acceptance was due to Crewe and showed him National Rail confirming it. He called control and argued a bit that it was only meant from Liverpool to Euston direct and not from Stafford but following debate he finally accepted it and then questioned my Network Card before accepting it and then commenting that LM were on the way down due to them screwing their drivers and they needed all the extra Great Escape revenue they could get!

 

[Eagle]

It is time DfT discuss the option of taking away the Franchise

What, and add another imminent refranchising to the current maelstrom that is the franchising review?

 

[Ferret]

I'm not saying they should invest in training drivers to see them leave, I'm saying they should invest in keeping drivers-make themselves desirable to work for to compete with the other TOCs which drivers appear to be leaving to work for.

Which they can't really do owing to the nature of their work - whether you vary the work or not, it's still stop-start all day. Sure, they could pay more, but I've already highlighted why that isn't a viable option.

 

[A-driver]

Stop start work is unlikely to be an issue. It's the intensity of it. I have worked for 2 suburban TOCs with stop start work. Certain depots have far more intense work than others and they quickly move out those depots causing similar problems. Kings cross and Selhurst for example both have very intense stopper work and so have more drivers leaving them than other depots.

What I'm saying is that LM can improve the work in many ways weather reducing the number of trips on diagramms, incresing turn arounds etc. i dont know anything about the company or if this is the issue but am saying there are ways to improve work anywhere.

I don't know where this thing about stop start work comes from. I almost prefer doing stoppers to Hertford and welwyn than doing cruisers to Cambridge all day, I find suburban stoppers more enjoyable and relaxing personally. Intercity style high speed mainline runs are boring as far as im concerned. 30mins sitting staring at a needle pointing to 100 on a speedo whilst watching green lights fly past not doing bery much. But each to their own.

 

[Trains06]

They do need to do something about the issue...

The number of cancellations and delays today due to no train crew member being available has been ridiculous..

 

[dvboy]

Could they do anything to offer overtime to drivers who have left them recently for other companies, as they would surely still be able to drive the routes?

 

[Rich McLean]

Could they do anything to offer overtime to drivers who have left them recently for other companies, as they would surely still be able to drive the routes?

From a source, they have already asked SWT and at a hazard of a guess other TOC's as well. The SWT driver in question response was "Why the hell do I wan't to work up there"

 

[A-driver]

From a source, they have already asked SWT and at a hazard of a guess other TOC's as well. The SWT driver in question response was "Why the hell do I wan't to work up there"

Out of interest what have they asked SWT exactly? For drivers or to borrow drivers? Seems a bit desperate!

And in response to the question on overtime, when you leave a company you automatically sign off the routes and traction. Even if you move to another TOC with the same traction or route many TOCs will insist on you relearning and re assessing you to some extent. I can't see it ever being allowed for you to 'moonlight' with other companies. Too many grey areas-if you have an incident on one TOC what happens to you on the other, who deals with it etc. Also could cause problems with hidden regs and the main point-why would your current employer want to loan you to a rival?

 

[Rich McLean]

Out of interest what have they asked SWT exactly? For drivers or to borrow drivers? Seems a bit desperate!

And in response to the question on overtime, when you leave a company you automatically sign off the routes and traction. Even if you move to another TOC with the same traction or route many TOCs will insist on you relearning and re assessing you to some extent. I can't see it ever being allowed for you to 'moonlight' with other companies. Too many grey areas-if you have an incident on one TOC what happens to you on the other, who deals with it etc. Also could cause problems with hidden regs and the main point-why would your current employer want to loan you to a rival?

LM were trying to borrow other drivers from other TOC's for a limited period, until LM had enough qualified drivers. Of course, they would have to train them up on the traction and the road, but it was planned to be a stop gap measure.

 

[Pumbaa]

First I've heard of it.
LM did successfully manage to poach some more ex FL and DBS crews, though not nearly enough to cover the shortfall.

Manglement are so deluded - they seem to be blaming the current situation on having a shared messroom at New St, making it easier for other West Midlands based TOCs to pinch traincrew. I think we've all heard the age old story of an old hand going round handing out application forms, and when told to shove off by a Central director replied "not just your messroom!" I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but if management don't face up to the fact that you need to constantly recruit to negate turnover, then they're stuffed really.

And this is having a massive impact on driver training for the December timetable. If anyone wants to sample the new 110 service via Weedon, forget about it for the first few weeks is the message!

Crewe are to be signed up to London (they currently only go to Northampton) and Northampton top link are to sign to Crewe (about half do currently). On top of that, Northants, Bletchley, Crewe, Coventry, New St and Wolves crews all need 110 training. It ain't going well so far...

Crew diagrams still need to be passed by union councils as they've gone back to the drawing board twice (although that they may have been done in the last week and I missed it), the new unit diagrams in their first draft assumed 100% availability of 350/1 (human error we're told...) and Wolves men are going to gain the Liverpool/Crewe work being lost by New St, although quite who and when this was decided is anyone's guess as no-one seems to have told New St :roll: seems to be a damage limitation exercise by concentrating depots on core routes to avoid further cancellations come December.

It's all crap on the west midlands front... What a way to (not) run a railway. Complete and utter shambles.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

all this Bull from LM does make me laugh their management seem to forget the golden rule


You treat your staff right, and they will do the same

You treat them poorly and...oops!

 

[ainsworth74]

You treat your staff right, and they will do the same

You treat them poorly and...oops!

Surely this is less about treating staff right and more about just not having the staff to treat nicely in the first place!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Surely this is less about treating staff right and more about just not having the staff to treat nicely in the first place!

They would have had the staff in the first place, then they got poached! as I have said Northern tend not to have this problem and all we do is start stop with in a lot of cases ancient trains, we lose the odd one but thats all

 

[dvboy]

Wolves men are going to gain the Liverpool/Crewe work being lost by New St,

Will this mean many Liv/Crewe trains starting from/termingating at Wolves if that's where the drivers are based?

 

[A-driver]

Will this mean many Liv/Crewe trains starting from/termingating at Wolves if that's where the drivers are based?

Doubt it very much, either a crew change there or a wolves driver would take it to new street and back to Liverpool.

 

[SF-02]

Got caught up in the canx today although the additional issues with OHLE at Crewe proved rather useful as that meant Virgin accepting tickets between Liverpool and Euston..the guard from Stafford was not impressed though when I showed him my Great Escape with Network Card discount!!!! He first said that Virgin weren't taking tickets from LM as a result of their staff shortage cancellations. I said fine but acceptance was due to Crewe and showed him National Rail confirming it. He called control and argued a bit that it was only meant from Liverpool to Euston direct and not from Stafford but following debate he finally accepted it and then questioned my Network Card before accepting it and then commenting that LM were on the way down due to them screwing their drivers and they needed all the extra Great Escape revenue they could get!

Blimey he sounds like a right tool!

 

[Pumbaa]

Will this mean many Liv/Crewe trains starting from/termingating at Wolves if that's where the drivers are based?

Doubt it very much, either a crew change there or a wolves driver would take it to new street and back to Liverpool.

Pretty much - no changes to services at all, just changing the depots who crew the services. Currently the Liv - Brum work is shared by Crewe, New St and Wolves fairly evenly. Crewe do the lions share of early and lates on the services, less during the middle of the day.

New St are losing the work north of Wolves and Wolves is picking it up. This is being spun as a result of Crewe men now working down to London, and is easier to get a whole depot to cover the old work rather than ensuring some links at two depots do it. Wolves are losing some of their all shacks working and being given to New St, meaning that New St effectively loses their express workings other than those to Northampton and becomes a dedicated all shacks...

Although of course don't expect this to have happened or working well by December, just expect more en masse cancellations! As drivers knowledge lapses they aren't getting it back, and the drivers getting the knowledge aren't getting it quick enough.

 

[87015]

Plus the drivers course is still suspended whilst they try and find someone willing to do the traction training to the required level...

 

[HH]

Manglement are so deluded - they seem to be blaming the current situation on having a shared messroom at New St, making it easier for other West Midlands based TOCs to pinch traincrew. I think we've all heard the age old story of an old hand going round handing out application forms, and when told to shove off by a Central director replied "not just your messroom!" I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but if management don't face up to the fact that you need to constantly recruit to negate turnover, then they're stuffed really.

Manglement! I love it, whether deliberate or no.

And yes, this is just a classic example of "If you fail to plan, then you are planning to fail".

 

[jizzer]

Every year some drivers will

Leave to go to other companies
Retire
Get sacked
Become medically restricted
Move to other jobs within the same company
Go on long term sick

Management should plan for this and if you don't this is what happens.
Larger depots should have a rolling programme of driver training because when it starts to cancel trains there is also no road learning, traction training, safety briefs being done. And lets not go down the 'drivers being poached route', its called freedom of movement.

 

[VP185]

The company I work for is seriously short of drivers, there are probably a handful of cancellations a day due to driver shortage.

They can only take on as many trainee drivers as they have instructors and getting instructors is tough work.
5% more on top of your basic salary, a ton of paperwork to complete everyday often outside your working hours, any incident you have with a trainee goes on your driving record and the risk of being landed with an idiot for 250+ hours... it just isn't worth the extra 5%.

As far as retaining drivers. London depots are always going to find it difficult, near impossible to keep drivers due to the high cost of living. Outside of London, conditions and style of management are bigger influences for me than the type of work and money.
A driver has to give 4 weeks notice when leaving, given how much covering of the backside there is nowadays it takes upto 18-24 months to recruit and train new drivers and even after that amount of time it possible that they could still fail.

 

[transmanche]

Crew diagrams still need to be passed by union councils

Seriously? Unions have the final say? Wow. How very 1970s...

 

[HH]

Seriously? Unions have the final say? Wow. How very 1970s...

Don't know about LM, but the normal course is for local reps to have an advisory role. But management would be foolish to simply ignore what they say.

 

[A-driver]

Seriously? Unions have the final say? Wow. How very 1970s...

Of course they do-that's exactly what unions are there for. Otherwise companies would take they mick. Plus generally those in train planning don't see things realistically, just on paper. Getting drivers to look over them and agree them ensures they are kept realistic. It has happened that train planning have sent diagrams with illegal pnbs or 2 minute turn arounds etc which will just lead to constant delays.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

From London Midlands website

Timetable alterations on*Thursday 1 November

The following list shows the trains at risk of cancellation on 1 November. There are currently 6 shifts uncovered, which means 37 of the 1,311 trains we are scheduled to run are affected. All other routes are expected to run as normal.

Where there is a significant wait for the next train we will try to provide road transport or stop faster trains at intermediate stations – please listen for announcements or see the information screens on the station. However, if your travel plans are flexible, we suggest avoiding the affected times.

Remember, if you are delayed by 30 minutes or more as a result of these alterations, you can claim compensation at*londonmidland.com/DelayRepay.

THE FOLLOWING TRAINS ARE CANCELLED unless otherwise stated.

Birmingham to London

from Birmingham
0713 Birmingham New St - Coventry
0853 Birmingham New St - London Euston starts at Coventry
1613 Birmingham New St - Coventry
1753 Birmingham New St - London Euston starts at Northampton
1833 Birmingham New St - London Euston starts at Northampton
1853 Birmingham New St – London Euston starts at Northampton
2033 Birmingham New St - Northampton terminates at Coventry
2313 Birmingham New St - Coventry

to Birmingham

0811 Coventry - Birmingham New St
1346 London Euston - Birmingham New St terminates at Coventry
1711 Coventry - Birmingham New St
1554 London Euston - Birmingham New St terminates at Northampton
1849 London Euston - Birmingham New St terminates at Northampton
1913 London Euston - Birmingham New St terminates at Northampton
2046 London Euston - Birmingham New St terminates at Northampton

Please note that passengers with London Midland tickets travelling from London to the West Midlands may also use Virgin departures from London Euston at 1903 and 1923.

Coventry to Nuneaton

Rail replacement road transport will run until 1330hrs

Redditch - Lichfield via Birmingham New St

towards Lichfield
1957 Redditch*- Lichfield Trent Valley
1722 Longbridge - Four Oaks terminates at Birmingham New St
1754 Longbridge - Four Oaks terminates at New St
2252 Longbridge - Lichfield City

Towards Redditch

1817 Four Oaks*- Redditch starts at Birmingham New St
1847 Four Oaks - Redditch
2130 Lichfield Trent Valley*- Redditch starts at Birmingham New St
2223 Birmingham New St - Longbridge

 

[Rich McLean]

It's been better this week

 

[Swirlz]

37 trains cancelled today according to the BBC.

Interesting stats too, about salary:

London Midland..........£42,619

Arriva Cross Country...£53,171

Virgin Trains..............£49,620

Chiltern Railways........£45,305

(ASLEF)

For an extra £10,000 I would be moving to CrossCountry or Virgin if I was qualified and they were taking on!! Not surprised they are losing drivers, paying the least.

The only other company operating in West midlands is Arriva (Trains Wales) and they pay less (£41,150), but I reckon their staff passes must be worth a few £££.

 

[the sniper]

The only other company operating in West midlands is Arriva (Trains Wales) and they pay less (£41,150), but I reckon their staff passes must be worth a few £££.

They don't have a depot in the West Mids though.

 

[Roverman]

I'd live in Wales for £41k (or more) a year!