• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

The Obesity Epidemic - Causes and solutions.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,840
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
And "Eat less, move more is not that simple"


That article actually does accept that calories in vs calories out is indeed valid. It then goes on to describe ways in which each can be "tweaked", some already mentioned in the thread.
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
7,883
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
Equally, a slow cooker is a comparatively easy (and cheap) way to have a warm meal waiting for you when you get home.

They really are good. A leg or other cut of lamb can be put in the cooker in the morning or even prepared the night before and then put in some fresh cut vegetables and a bit of water and left on slow after turning on in the morning before leaving for work. Healthy and letting time be your friend.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,816
Location
Scotland
They really are good. A leg or other cut of lamb can be put in the cooker in the morning or even prepared the night before and then put in some fresh cut vegetables and a bit of water and left on slow after turning on in the morning before leaving for work. Healthy and letting time be your friend.
The long, slow cooking time also allows you to get decent results from cheaper cuts of meat, making it more affordable for people on a tight budget. Which has certainly been of benefit to me when there is more month left until payday than there is money.
 

alxndr

Established Member
Joined
3 Apr 2015
Messages
1,474
The other thing I've noticed is that most people making spag bol or chilli seem to put in a massive tray of mince, whatever the sauce ingredients are and that's that. Meat is expensive, it can be made much cheaper (and massively less calorific) by having more vegetables in there and using meat as a flavour rather than a bulking agent. Similarly chicken curry just gets chicken and the sauce.

I tend to sneak a couple of grated carrots in anything mince-based, makes it go a lot further and doesn't have much of an impact on appearance, texture, or taste (to me anyway).

Curries get whatever vegetables I have in the fridge added.
 

Albaman

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2018
Messages
90
I am not qualified in any way to comment with authority on the issue of obesity but from my knowledge gleaned from a very small sample, I wonder what part mental health issues contribute to obesity.

I appreciate that unless you are a medical practitioner and / or you are closely acquainted with the individual, it will not be evident what part, if any, mental health issues have and do contribute to obesity but , from my very limited experience, I think it is a factor that can be relevant in some cases.
 

DB

Guest
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
5,036
I am not qualified in any way to comment with authority on the issue of obesity but from my knowledge gleaned from a very small sample, I wonder what part mental health issues contribute to obesity.

Undoubtedly to an exent it can do. Also, a lot fo the drugs used to treat various mentla health issues have weight gain as a side effect.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,840
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Undoubtedly to an exent it can do. Also, a lot fo the drugs used to treat various mentla health issues have weight gain as a side effect.

I think I'd say mental health is a very big part of the issue - from comfort eating to lack of willpower. Indeed, I'd say it was the primary issue that causes people to "break" the calories in vs out equation. (And as you say, some drugs mess with the metabolism, reducing the "calories out", or as with many corticosteroids increase appetite).
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,136
Location
SE London
We all seem to have spent a lot of time arguing about the extent of the relationship to poverty and the extent to which personal responsibility bears a role.

Anyone have any suggestions for things the Government could be doing to significantly reduce obesity levels? (Seeing as this thread is called 'causes and *solutions* ;) )
 

Islineclear3_1

Established Member
Joined
24 Apr 2014
Messages
5,836
Location
PTSO or platform depending on the weather
Anyone have any suggestions for things the Government could be doing to significantly reduce obesity levels? (Seeing as this thread is called 'causes and *solutions* ;) )

Anyone who waits for the Government to come up with new initiatives could be waiting a long time...

Each and every one of us is responsible for our own lifestyle choices. Education is key.

Everyone knows that simple sugars (e.g. in fizzy pop, cake, sweets, biscuits) is bad for us if ingested regularly without exercise. However, not everyone knows that all carbohydrate reduces to sugar and nearly everything we buy today has some form of sugar (often disguised by other names). Also, not everyone knows the link between sugar and insulin resistance, the meaning of glycaemic load, the difference between low - and high-glycaemic foods, the difference between good and bad fats, how diet drinks tend to make us more thirsty and that many low fat foods have sugar subtitutes to make them taste less bland

A sugar or "fat" tax is not a solution in my opinion. Advertising sugary junk is also not the solution and TV/advertising companies need to take some responsibility.

Improving mental health may go some way towards helping those who comfort eat. Reduce the amount of sweets and fizzy pop sold in vending machines (e.g. at stations) with more healthy options. Ensuring healthy staple food is not more expensive than a takeaway pizza or burger. Eat more dietary fibre. I'll try and think of some more suggestions as and when I get time

But for now - education and increase activity levels
 
Last edited:

Islineclear3_1

Established Member
Joined
24 Apr 2014
Messages
5,836
Location
PTSO or platform depending on the weather
My other suggestions (although not always practical in real life)

Reduce TV/PC time, get more sleep, reduce stress, move more, don't make fast food cheap, manufacturers to reduce/remove unecessary sugar in food (including rubbish like corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup and all other chemicals that masquarade as sugar), eat plenty of good fat, complex carbs and protein, reduce salt intake, stop the selling off of school playing fields

No amount of government strategy will help if people are uneducated about food and manufacturers/companies are allowed to continue to make big profits from providing mass unhealthy products often at inflated prices at station outlets/schools/motorway service stations etc
 

Neptune

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
2,490
Location
Yorkshire
I used to make poor choices with food (junk food) and drink (binge drinking on long weekends) and was woefully overweight.

Then several years ago I decided enough was enough.

I cut out the junk food, stopped drinking and started exercising. I lost 4 stone in 1 year and felt better than ever.

Nowadays I’ve become vegetarian, only drink the odd rum or gin maybe once a month (if I can be bothered) and go to the gym 5 times a week (well not since March so my Rocky style garden gym has had to do).

You certainly get a much better buzz from a good gym session than sitting watching TV.

I’ve saved pots of cash by buying healthy food. A common excuse i often hear is that it’s cheaper to eat McDonalds than to eat healthily. Try Aldi fruit and veg, it’s far cheaper and fills you up for far longer reducing the wish to snack between meals. Sugar free drinks like Pepsi max are also a better option and in my opinion are much nicer as they aren’t really sweet.

My weekly shop at Aldi for 2 of us is around £30 a week and none of it is brown food. When we were buying crap food with not enough greens the shop was nearer £40 a week and that’s nearly 10 years ago.

I do enjoy the odd naughty snack (you should still allow for this in moderation) once a week at most.

I also ensure I have an appropriate amount of sleep each night. This makes sure my body is rested properly to take on whatever the following day throws at me whether it’s a 0400 start at work or going out with the family.

My BMI is perfect for my height, I very rarely feel tired, I’m fit and strong and would never go back to how i was.

Health and fitness is so important to quality of life and I’ve actually been told by an obese colleague who regularly eats 2 McDonalds during a shift that my way is wrong as I couldn’t possibly be happy with how I eat. Well I’m happy that I’m nearly 50 and have the fitness of someone more than half my age.
 

GRALISTAIR

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2012
Messages
7,883
Location
Dalton GA USA & Preston Lancs
I think I'd say mental health is a very big part of the issue - from comfort eating to lack of willpower.
Absolutely no doubt in my mind from experience and reading about the issue over the last 30 years. Depression etc can often result in comfort eating and generally not caring so why worry about calories etc. Sometimes (much more rarely) it affects people the other way and they cant eat. I know in 1989 when I suffered clinical depression I lost 4 stones in weight in less than 2 months. Really did not want to or care about eating. I looked gaunt according to my mother. OTOH 3 people I know very well and currently suffering mental health issues/depression - each one of them have put on well over 5 stones.
 

Techniquest

Veteran Member
Joined
19 Jun 2005
Messages
21,674
Location
Nowhere Heath
I've been reading everyone's replies with interest, as physical fitness and a sensible diet (I say this after having had some cake while reading this thread, but eating an apple while replying) are two fascinating topics.

Some of you on here may already be aware that cycling is one of my most enjoyable activities these days. So you'd think I'd be good at looking after the body, feeding it what it needs etc. Yeah, well, no. Sometimes, yes I do really well with that, not perfect but it's still a relatively new thing to me and I'm getting used to it. Sometimes, however, no I'm dreadful for it.

Like the other week, I rode from Bromsgrove to Worcester following Route 46 on the National Cycle Network. By the time I got to Worcester I was shattered, although it's worth pointing out by the time I reached Shrub Hill I'd done 19 miles. For a novice cyclist I'd say I did OK there. So I jumped on the train to Malvern Link, for a same platform 15 minute wait. Which was fine until I realised it was actually 40 minutes.

Perfect, time to try out the local pizza place then. It had been on my list to do for a long time, and I needed a good feed. As they were cash only under £10, and letting people in without a face covering, I settled for Dominos instead. A decent size Meateor pizza really filled me up, worth waiting 20 minutes for. Especially as it was my first Dominos since, I believe, 2018!

Obviously, I probably *should* have waited until Hereford and got something there. However, that was a long way off and my legs were screaming. Riding the bike back to Malvern Link station was challenging, I was in need of plenty of protein and a shake was no longer going to cut it. I needed a ton of carbs and something sweet too. The sweet would wait, as I had some homemade cake at home. The rest of it was needed as a matter of urgency.

This was a case of doing right for doing wrong really. Right for giving the body what it wanted, even if the bank account was unamused at spending £10. Wrong for eating such a ton of processed meat for the protein. Wrong for all the fats. However, right for the brain in terms of giving it something really enjoyable as a special treat. It's gone through a lot in the last year, and it has delivered results that I've been asking from it for a long time. So now and again, it's nice to listen to it and just indulge in something incredibly unhealthy.

Which leads me nicely onto the mental health side of things. Anyone who read my trip reports from 2019 will know I spent a LOT of time rewiring the brain. 2018 was no better, but yeah...Eventually though, some of my life's worst choices were finally fixed in September 2019, January 2020 and summer 2020. It's been a lot to deal with, but I am happy and my mental health is slowly catching up with my physical health.

I still don't eat well when I'm stressed, but who does? It's too easy to grab the chocolate etc when that happens. So I do my best to avoid such a situation. Even when I'm feeling at my peak for good eating, you still won't find me eating much of the stuff listed in this thread! I don't eat super healthily, gosh no, but I do a lot of exercise almost every single day. Today is not one of those days, but it is the first such day all month so I think that's fair. I overdid the exercise yesterday, so I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself but not so much where there's no healthy food intake. Lunch was a big plate of potatoes, carrots and petis pois for example!

Oh, and to touch on the point someone made about how not all ready meals are unhealthy, I hear you there. There's two ready meals in Asda's chilled ready meals section that come to mind. It's been a while since I last looked, so forgive me for not remembering which ones they are. The one that sounds like it should be unhealthy is actually much better for you than the one that sounds like it'll be healthy. Similar applies to the Smart Price chicken curry and rice ready meal. For the price, you'd think it would be totally unhealthy, but for what it is, the values are actually really good. I used them a fair whack in 2018 during the massive excess mass shredding mission, as I found that overall it was pretty much perfect for my needs at the time.

So, I've rambled on explaining how even someone who loves to keep fit still eats less than amazingly. I'm sure someone else out there will be of similar mindset, so they'll get it. What's my solution then?

Well my cursory stroll through the brain doesn't really reveal a solution. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to the obesity crisis. Let's say, for example, the government puts a huge tax on an unhealthy food. In this case, let's say processed meat like sausages and burgers. Going to the chippy, for example, and having a large sausage and chips could currently cost you £3.10, with the sausage priced at £1.30. Let's chuck a 25% tax onto that sausage.

That sausage would then cost £1.63. Suddenly the price of a quick and easy meal jumps up from £3.10 to £3.43. That may not sound like much, but if that stops people buying a processed meat item from their chippy (let's not go into how that isn't necessarily a bad thing) then that will have a knock-on effect in the food industry. People stop going so often, and eventually the local independant business starts losing too much money to keep the doors open.

Can you imagine the impact the same sort of thing would have on anything battered in a chippy? That would have a big effect on the UK economy for sure, and as I see today there's a recession going on that sort of thing we can't do.

So, taxes being applied to unhealthy food, that's a no-go. What else can we try? We've already tried a sugar tax and that's not made that much of a difference really. Someone suggested better education on things like saturated fats and sugars, and that I would support. I don't know a whole ton of the various bits and bobs, but I know enough to make a sensible choice. It doesn't mean I always do, but until I break the link between sugary foods and my brain, it will forever be something to deal with.

Other than that, I guess all we can do is continue to make outdoor exercising safe and easy to do. With a social media-focused society, getting some influencers on board might not be the worst idea? Get them to promote even basic exercise, like walking to the shops and back instead of driving the car. Maybe instead of streaming services advertising junk food, have them advertise exercise-related stuff. Not just gyms either, something that promotes people to get inspired. Models sweating away on gym equipment will not do that, but someone that represents the average person having fun with walking/cycling/hiking can surely only help?
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,136
Location
SE London
Everyone knows that simple sugars (e.g. in fizzy pop, cake, sweets, biscuits) is bad for us if ingested regularly without exercise. However, not everyone knows that all carbohydrate reduces to sugar

I thought carbohydrate being reduced to sugars wasn't an issue because (a) it doesn't reduce to sugars till it gets to the stomach, so your teeth don't get damaged by it, and (b) it takes time for your stomach to break it down to sugars, which means complex carbohydrates don't give you the sudden rush of sugar just after you've eaten - which is the thing that causes the health problems with sugar? Am i mistaken?

A sugar or "fat" tax is not a solution in my opinion. Advertising sugary junk is also not the solution and TV/advertising companies need to take some responsibility.

I would disagree about a sugar tax. It's very well known that higher prices discourage consumption of almost any product. Economically there's a perfectly good justification for taxing sugar, to the extent that sugar consumption imposes external costs on society (through the health problems it causes), so a tax can be seen as a way of redeeming those costs. The thing I'm less clear of is how to practically implement at tax. The tax on soft drinks suffers from the problem that it imposes arbitrary limits at which the tax comes in, incentivising manufacturers to produce drinks that are still unhealthy but fall just outside the limits. Plus it only applies to drinks, not to other equally unhealthy food: Really you need something that targets all processed sugar (and perhaps some processed fat too), and charges a tax that's basically directly proportional to how much sugar/fat is in each product. But I'm unsure how that could work at a practical level - bearing in mind that you probably don't want to accidentally start taxing things like fresh fruit.

I agree with you that misleading or irresponsible advertising needs to be tackled too, along with greater public education about diet and exercise.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,991
Location
Yorks
We all seem to have spent a lot of time arguing about the extent of the relationship to poverty and the extent to which personal responsibility bears a role.

Anyone have any suggestions for things the Government could be doing to significantly reduce obesity levels? (Seeing as this thread is called 'causes and *solutions* ;) )

It could task someone to invent 'healthy' food that tastes like junk food.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,455
Location
UK
I thought carbohydrate being reduced to sugars wasn't an issue because (a) it doesn't reduce to sugars till it gets to the stomach, so your teeth don't get damaged by it, and (b) it takes time for your stomach to break it down to sugars, which means complex carbohydrates don't give you the sudden rush of sugar just after you've eaten - which is the thing that causes the health problems with sugar? Am i mistaken?

That's correct, it's the peaks and troughs which are bad, causing more insulin to be produced to regulate the blood glucose concentration, after a while the body becomes resistant to insulin and that leads to type 2 diabetes.
Complex carbohydrates give a smoother increase and decrease meaning less insulin is needed.

Our bodies need glucose, as that's our main source of energy.
It's true that fats and muscles can metabolised, but these are less efficient than sugar and are only used as a last resort.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,816
Location
Scotland
That's correct, it's the peaks and troughs which are bad, causing more insulin to be produced to regulate the blood glucose concentration, after a while the body becomes resistant to insulin and that leads to type 2 diabetes.
Complex carbohydrates give a smoother increase and decrease meaning less insulin is needed.
Totally correct as far as diabetes is concerned. As far as obesity goes, complex carbs are almost as harmful as simple.
 

Sweetjesus

Member
Joined
15 Jun 2019
Messages
149
I used to be very obese.

What made me to lose weight wasn't exercise. As people say, 90% of your weight loss happens at your kitchen, not at a gym.

Unhealthy foods are essentially a comfort food, so if you make it harder for people to get it, it's no longer a comfort food.

I sincerely believe that the best way to reduce obesity is reducing portion sizes. It's in our human nature that we finish whatever is in front of us and that includes finishing snack bags that are meant to be shared between 5 or so people.

Confining snacks, sweets, etc to sweets shops only and ban it from a supermarket would be also a good idea.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,816
Location
Scotland
Confining snacks, sweets, etc to sweets shops only and ban it from a supermarket would be also a good idea.
Generally speaking, bans on the bad thing aren't as effective as making the alternative more accessible and more attractive.
 

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
And "Eat less, move more is not that simple"


Couldn't agree with this quote from the article

No one wants to be fat. The obese know they’re obese. They’ve had “calories in, calories out” drummed into their heads for years. If it were really as simple as eating less and moving more, they wouldn’t be obese. And yet here we are. That might be the biggest danger of the continued propagation of these myths — they convince people that they’ve failed at something simple, basic, and central to being a healthy, moral human being.

I like the writings of Paul McKenna, you have rather learnt some bad habits, so let's change them.

For example, when you eat, concentrate entirely on your food. Chew thoroughly. Your stomach will signal when it has had enough, but comfort eaters have learnt to override the signals and carry on eating. Were you brought up to be a good boy and eat everything on your plate? No, if you are full, stop eating.

I'm also a big fan of slow cookers and home cooking, such as homemade soups. The big danger lies in processed food - for example who would think that "roasted chicken, ready to eat" contains sugar unless you read the label
 

Sweetjesus

Member
Joined
15 Jun 2019
Messages
149
Generally speaking, bans on the bad thing aren't as effective as making the alternative more accessible and more attractive.

Agreed, that's true in almost all situations.

However my point was that availibility of such food made it easier for people to become obese. I mean the availability of healthy food has not changed in the past 20 years.

It's only that unhealthy foods' availability that have changed and it's now far more easier to get now than before. Portion sizes used to be smaller, so whatever you bought, it would be for you only.

The suggestion is that we counter this trend. Perhaps I should have stated this rather than stating the main purpose of my suggestion was to make it difficult for people to get unhealthy food.

This situation isn't the same as illegal drugs whose usage depends on other factors, so making it illegal and difficult to get wouldn't prevent its use.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,816
Location
Scotland
Buffets cause people to overeat. Fortunately they are not as common in the UK as USA. Human nature is - well I have paid xyz so I might as well get my money’s worth.
There's nothing wrong with buffets as for most people they are an occasional thing. The problem is continual snacking and poor meal choice on a day-to-day basis. For example, people joke about getting fat around Xmas because they stuffed themselves at large family dinner, but really it's the chocolates, alcohol and sweets over a period of a few weeks that really does it.
 

C J Snarzell

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2019
Messages
1,506
I think there are all sorts of issues to the obesity problem and much of it is a change in social behaviour and people's attitudes to what they eat & how they eat.

When I was a kid, McDonald's was only found in the high street of larger towns and cities (no drive thru's until about 1990) and I only went there once every blue moon for a birthday or something special and it was considered a treat. Nowadays, children live off McD's everyday and people of every walk of life pass through there.

I still regularly dine at the table away from the TV and I'm one of these people who religiously has to eat my food sat down properly on a plate (not on my lap either). Many members of my family are old school and refuse to eat fast food - a traditional meal with fresh vegatables and meat/fish is very often cooked in favour of something out of the freezer.

What I do see is the era of old fashion values dying out slowly and modern families are less likely to gather around the meal table at 6pm and have a decent meal away from the box. Many people simply eat on the go or slob out in front of the TV eating frozen pizza or a ready made lasagne (ping meals my dad calls them).

I'm personally in favour of Jamie Oliver's programme in encouraging our children to eat healthily at school, but the problem sometimes rests with the parents who don't instill enough discipline in their children. If a 30 odd year old mother lives off takeaways and crisps herself - she is hardly going to be giving her 7 year old fruit and Rivita's in his lunchbox.

Only the other day, outside the local Tesco Express, I saw Vicki Pollard's sister giving her 4-year-old child (who looked like a mini Augustus Gloop) a 100g Areo bar to eat - I couldn't believe it at first & I actually thought maybe that is some form of child cruelty.

Over the years, I've seen bars of chocolate & bags of crisps reduce in size - but all people do now is simply buy two and eat two together. I've grown up in a town renown for pie eating where a local bakery sells 2 x full size pies for £1.50 - again people buy 2 pies and eat 2 pies for their lunch!!!!

The government is simply deluding itself if it thinks it can add a fat tax to certain foods to make people slimmer & healthier. Adding taxes to cigarettes and withdrawing packs of 10 has failed to stop certain members of society from smoking so why would taxing sugary/fatty foods be different.

I also believe alot of people don't exercise enough and less children walk to school now than they did in my era - some parents actually drive their children such at short distance it takes them longer than walking!!!!

Another aspect of obesity is the UKs alcohol problem. Its fair to say that the UK is one the world's worst countries for binge drinking which is a problem in itself but clearly excessive boozing goes cap in hand with excess weight and health problems like diabetes.

CJ
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,816
Location
Scotland
What I do see is the era of old fashion values dying out slowly...
You mean "old fashioned values" like sending children up chimneys to clean them? Be careful about harking back to the 'good old days' because they never existed.
Only the other day, outside the local Tesco Express, I saw Vicki Pollard's sister...
Adding taxes to cigarettes and withdrawing packs of 10 has failed to stop certain members of society from smoking so why would taxing sugary/fatty foods be different.
That kind of talk will get you called classist.

In any case, cigarette taxes and banning packs of ten were never intended to stop people from smoking. Both measures were intended to make smoking less attractive so that fewer people would take up the habit - you might be tempted if a packet only costs £5, but less likely to if the cheapest you can get is closer to £20, and also to make quitting seem like good value. As I noted above, two of my friends quit mostly because it was just so expensive.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top