The State Of Rail Travel In Lincolnshire

[Boothby97]

Still it's an awful service compared to the train and five 450 trips don't make up for the lost train which runs at night. Some people do use the train at all times. What's the next idea, cancel trains to Lincoln as there's a bus running there??

I know that, to be fair I wouldn't want the line to close (I live in Cleethorpes so if anything, I want an improvement in services).
The Grimsby-Market Rasen-Lincon bus (Interconnect 53) doesn't serve Habrough or Barnetby, so it wouldn't be a great idea to axe rail services either

 

[trentside]

When the trains used to serve Northgate from Nottingham it took about 10mins so it could run, just not from Lincoln. And besides, Lincoln won't need the Grimsby train to go to Newark when Virgin start running to Lincoln.

But doing so would defeat the object of extending the Matlock service through to Newark Castle, to speed up the Lincoln to Nottingham service. If the direct London trains are introduced, then I believe the intention is to have a two hourly service - so there will likely still be Lincoln to Newark North Gate services in between the London trains.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The tracks still look to be intact between Chesterfield and Creswell. Should that line be reopened to passengers? It looks to go through Clowne and Staveley. And there is a branch line heading strait to Sheffield via Killamarsh. Is there demand for that line?

The line from Chesterfield (Barrow Hill North Jn to be precise) to Creswell actually ends in a field about three miles west of Creswell at Oxcroft, and is disused, so in addition to requiring complete rebuilding for the final few miles it would also need complete rebuilding for the other 5~ miles to Barrow Hill.

The line via Killamarsh is I believe the Old Road, still used frequently for route retention and diversions. Intermediate services along the line may happen but not for a long, long time.
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Just had a check - Oxcroft has been OOU since 2006, and, according to Wikipedia, all track and 'structures' removed by 2013.

 

[edwin_m]

But doing so would defeat the object of extending the Matlock service through to Newark Castle, to speed up the Lincoln to Nottingham service. If the direct London trains are introduced, then I believe the intention is to have a two hourly service - so there will likely still be Lincoln to Newark North Gate services in between the London trains.

Perhaps this would be better the other way round? Extend the Matlocks to Lincoln (fast from Nottingham as proposed for the Leicesters) and cut the Leicesters back to Newark (serving most/all stations). Trouble is this would need a recast of the timetable over quite a wide area.
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There may be demand for a few people for direct trains from Nottingham and Mansfield to Retford but I can't see it ever attracting large numbers of passengers. From Nottingham, Doncaster and stations North on the ECML can just as easily be reached by changing at Sheffield or Grantham. Whilst I agree that a direct service to Retford might be a nice idea, and one I'd use very occasionally, it would not do anything to improve the even more needed better connections between Mansfield and Sheffield.

I've never actually heard many people in Mansfield asking for a direct service to Retford but I regularly hear people complaining about the dreadful long wait at Worksop for connections to Sheffield. All of the stations on the Robin Hood Line would be better served with an improved link to Sheffield, without having to pay more and travel via Nottingham, either by a direct service or better connections at Worksop. Sheffield would provide Mansfield with far more useful onward connections than Retford would, just like Derby, Crewe or Birmingham would provide better connections from Lincoln than the current situation where services from Lincoln run to Leicester.

A good place to begin would be for a little bit more co operation between EMT and Northern, whilst maintaining the current service patterns, would be better connections at Worksop from the Robin Hood Line to both Sheffield and Retford/Lincoln. Any future developments with a service via Brigg to Cleethorpes would then be an added bonus for people in the Mansfield area. It just so annoys me that whenever I want a day out by train I have to get the car out and drive to Chesterfield, and pay high parking charges, because I cannot spare the time for a 2 hour journey to Sheffield, including a long wait at Worksop, to begin my journey.

I wonder if the Robin Hood service could reverse at Worksop and continue all stations to Sheffield, with the existing Sheffield-Lincoln making fewer stops on this section. This would mess up the franchise boundaries of course!

 

[ashworth]

I wonder if the Robin Hood service could reverse at Worksop and continue all stations to Sheffield, with the existing Sheffield-Lincoln making fewer stops on this section. This would mess up the franchise boundaries of course!

I think that would be more than acceptable for passengers from the Mansfield area to Sheffield. Even allowing 5 minutes for reversal at Worksop that should cut the journey time down to under 1 hour 15 minutes. Currently the off peak journey time throughout most of the day is 1 hour 51 minutes including the 40 minute wait at Worksop for the connection to Sheffield. That has always been unacceptable when the journey can be done in under an hour by car and in 1 hour 35 minutes on the Stagecoach 53 bus which now only does 6 journeys each way per day.

There are a couple of evening journeys that can currently be done in approx. 1 hour 15 minutes because they have good connections at Worksop. This shows that it does not really need a through train as it can be done with good connections. However, if stopping a Robin Hood Line train at all stations between Worksop and Retford can help speed up Lincoln-Sheffield trains then it could be worth considering. Another way of achieving better connections at Worksop would be an increase in the number of trains on the Cleethorpes-Sheffield route via Brigg if these additional trains were to connect with Robin Hood Line services at Worksop. I do think that Worksop-Sheffield does need 2tph as many trains are very overcrowded.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Totally agree with you Ashworth. Sheffield to Worksop trains are overcrowded and making a fast Lincoln to Sheffield - express city to city link makes sense. As does running Robin Hood through to Sheffield stopping.
No Nottingham passenger is ever going to use Retford as an interchange onto East Coast Line as the journey on the Robin Hood Line would be too slow. Quicker changing onto Cross Country at Sheffield or East Coast at Grantham.
Yes Retford to Nottingham is a potential flow BUT Worksop to Nottingham doesn't appear to carry that many through passengers as north Notts seems to look more towards Sheffield (and now Doncaster) than Nottingham.

 

[Class 170101]

But doing so would defeat the object of extending the Matlock service through to Newark Castle, to speed up the Lincoln to Nottingham service. If the direct London trains are introduced, then I believe the intention is to have a two hourly service - so there will likely still be Lincoln to Newark North Gate services in between the London trains.

Is this not similar to the previous plan which saw a London to Lincoln service using HSTs every two hours but due to the long layover at Lincoln the same HST was booked to shuttle back to Newark Northgate and return to Lincoln connecting with the York service at Newark Northgate?
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Currently the off peak journey time throughout most of the day is 1 hour 51 minutes including the 40 minute wait at Worksop for the connection to Sheffield.

There are a couple of evening journeys that can currently be done in approx. 1 hour 15 minutes because they have good connections at Worksop. This shows that it does not really need a through train as it can be done with good connections.

It would be interesting to know why evening journeys do this but not daytime journeys. Of course all the evening journeys shunt via Manton Collery siding so perhaps its in use duting the day by freight trains.

Another way of achieving better connections at Worksop would be an increase in the number of trains on the Cleethorpes-Sheffield route via Brigg if these additional trains were to connect with Robin Hood Line services at Worksop. I do think that Worksop-Sheffield does need 2tph as many trains are very overcrowded.

Certainly a second train betwen Retford and Sheffield would be useful if overcrowding is an issue to / from Sheffield particularly if it creates good connections to the ECML.
I suppose the question to be asked is there sufficient growth potential to warrant a half hourly service at Shireoaks to Darnall stations inclusive for most of the day? Clearly there are interchange benefits to Worksop and Retford having a half hourly service. Beyond Retford what are the main demand centres? Grimsby and Cleethorpes? Will Kirton Lindsay and Brigg really generate that much demand?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Kirton won't, but Brigg will, it is quite a busy town for its size and features a popular market ad garden centre. Gainsborough Central would soon overtake Lea Road if they both had the same service as it's near the town centre rather than a supermarket. Don't forget Grimsby and Cleethorpes urban area has a larger population than Lincoln, so growth is very possible especially when Cleethorpes has 250,000 watching an air show like this summer.

I just don't understand why the line is only open Saturdays when it's quite busy then. Look at the trains and see how packed it gets.
A 3 hourly service would become a clone of the Grimsby to Newark service is use in my opinnion. And that service is losing passengers because its too crowded and some are left behind.

 

[ashworth]

It would be interesting to know why evening journeys do this but not daytime journeys. Of course all the evening journeys shunt via Manton Collery siding so perhaps its in use duting the day by freight.

I once wrote to EMT to ask that very question. Their answer was that they see the main purpose of the Robin Hood Line is to link Mansfield, Worksop and other communities along the line with Nottingham and not Sheffield. When it was originally reopened the line was heavily funded by Nottonghamshire County Council for that purpose. The timetable has also to take into account platform space and operations at Nottingham and onward connections at Nottingham. That was the main theme of their reply and there was no apology for the lack of journey opportunities north from Mansfileld or any desire to do anything about it in the future.

Interestingly Derbyshire County Council also supported the opening of the Mansfield to Worksop section of the line with Shirebrook, Langwith, Cresswell and Whitwell all being in Derbyshire. Shirebrook seems to be fairly well used for journeys to and from Mansfield and even Nottingham but I've always been surprised at how few people seem to use Langworth, Cresswell and Whitwell. Perhaps it is because these communities look far more to Sheffield or even Chesterfield than they do to Nottingham Mansfield and Worksop. It is therefore currently far more convenient to travel to Sheffiled by road.

I must stop posting in this thread now or it will need a change of heading to 'The state of rail travel in Nottinghamshire'! However, I do think that if the service from Cleethorpes via Brigg is ever to be significantly improved connections from that direction at Worksop will also become more important or will EMT continue to ignore the increased journey opportunities and potential increase in passenger numbers North of Mansfield on the Robin Hood Line. Perhaps they just want everyone to use their trains and pay the higher fares from Mansfield to Sheffileld via Nottingham. On the subject of fares in addition to journeys to Sheffield there really ought to be other via Worksop fares available from Mansfield. The current fares north from Mansfield to destinations in Yorkshire beyond the Sheffield area are very high such as the ridiculous £28 off peak return to Doncaster.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

I've filled in the survey.

An idea that I have would be to run one doubled up unit from Sheffield as far as Retford whereby you divide the two units (front to Lincoln, rear to Cleethorpes). On the way back you'd attach at Retford and run in tandem back to Sheffield.

The theory behind it would be to allow for a possible semi fast to both Lincoln and Cleethorpes alternating hourly, along with some space left for the pathing of goods.

The semi fast service to Lincoln Central is one of the questions on our survey.

Would it be acceptable to run this semi-fast to Lincoln only, and provide the Cleethorpes service as an extension of an hourly stopper to Gainsborough Central? That'd save a couple of units and make the proposal more feasible, at the cost of a slightly slower (but more reliable?) journey for the Brigg line stations. I don't know whether any resignalling is planned downstairs at Retford, or whether it'll be a straight recontrol to wherever it's going next, but there's no provision for permissive working (to join portions) there at present.

Any service for Gainsborough Central is acceptable except the current one! Personally I think a Sheffield to Lincoln and a Nottingham to Cleethorpes service pattern would be the simplest.

A town of 20000 that is going to grown to over 40000 over the next few years, a busy market area with an award winning shopping complex right next to it, and a train station thats open 1 day a week. you could not make it up.

Would that serve the demand adequately though? There's no point going to great lengths to provide a service to Nottingham, only to find that no one uses it because they all want to go to Sheffield! If there's a serious aspiration to provide a second train per hour, to allow the Lincolns to be sped up, then that'd present a decent opportunity, with the bonus that you're not transferring any work to another TOC.

I doubt a Nottingham - Cleethorpes via Brigg service is on the cards, however we are told that Lincoln Central to Sheffield Midland may go over to EMT.

There's demand for Nottingham and Mansfield to have direct trains to Retford for the town and its East Coast connections. Many in Grimsby and Gainsborough would like direct trains to Nottingham too. I'm sure if Gainsborough people want Sheffield so badly they'll change at Worksop or get on at Lea Road station. Grimsby has hourly trains to Sheffield which would have competition so TPE will moan.

If the stopper train ran to Cleethorpes hourly and Lincoln got this senifast train it might reduce passenger travel to Lincoln from places it ignores, Darnall?? But the Cleethorpes to Gainsborough line will get a much needed boost which will outweigh any loss.

You will never get an hourly service on the Brigg Line, best to look at a 2hrly service with extra peak services turning around at Gainsborough Central

Mansfield I can understand desiring better connections to Retford, because AIUI, there is a lengthy connection at Worksop. However, I don't buy the argument for Nottingham, as there is 2 trains an hour to Grantham (simple cross platform change) and 1 train an hour to Newark (I admit, this does involve a hike across town). The biggest problem with the Brigg line (and I have said this before), is that it goes to the wrong towns and cities for the villages/towns on the route. Brigg's main town is Scunthorpe, the same for Kirton Lindsey. However, Gainsborough is in the middle of a triangle (Doncast, Lincoln and Scunthorpe) and needs better links to all 3. EMT need to intorduce a clockface 1tp2h on both the Lincoln - Grimsby/Cleethorpes and Lincoln - Doncaster routes so that demand from all the towns can be accurately accounted for before anything is done.

The demand for Sheffield - Grimsby is adequately catered for by TPE with the intermediate stops covered by Northern (change at Scunthorpe). The route via Brigg is a lot slower is a lot slower (especially on an all shacks service) with Brigg, Kirton Lindsey and Gainsborough recieving an adequate bus service from Scunthorpe.

If the Sheffield Midland - Cleethorpes via Brigg Line was made semi fast, it would take the same time as the Sheffield Midland - Cleethorpes TPE service.

I still don't see the reason why there should be a Nottingham - Retford direct service, as there are plenty of options for that route already (it's valid via Sheffield, or via Mansfield, or via Newark and even via Grantham/Newark). Introducing a direct train IMO is not viable, and looks to me as though it's someone asking/demanding it because they can ....

Yes, the line via Brigg does deserve a better service than what it currently gets, but apart from Gainsborough, after leaving Retford, the first sizable town of note is Grimsby. It's not worth the effort to implement some of the fantasy schemes I've seen through out this topic, possibly 1tp3h M-Sa from Sheffield to Cleethorpes using a 153, so they can swap if needed with the 153 on the Barton branch.

This idea has been put forward as well to Northern and all the new bidders for the franchise.

 

[Grimsby town]

It is good to see that the Manchester to Cleethorpes train is remaining. It's a well used service and is generally full by Scunthorpe when I've used it.

I think the Barton line should be run by the East Midlands franchise. They could share the Cleethorpes depot with Transpennine so later trains can run from Lincoln/Newark/Nottingham to Cleethorpes. Seeing the thread about connecting bus travel got me thinking and I believe Lincolnshire could be perfect. For example a buses could run from Market Rasen to Louth, Spalding to Bourne, Habrough to Immingham and Horncastle to Methringham.

I think 3 hourly is a fair frequency for the Brigg line hopefully it will get this in the next franchise

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

It is good to see that the Manchester to Cleethorpes train is remaining. It's a well used service and is generally full by Scunthorpe when I've used it.

I think the Barton line should be run by the East Midlands franchise. They could share the Cleethorpes depot with Transpennine so later trains can run from Lincoln/Newark/Nottingham to Cleethorpes. Seeing the thread about connecting bus travel got me thinking and I believe Lincolnshire could be perfect. For example a buses could run from Market Rasen to Louth, Spalding to Bourne, Habrough to Immingham and Horncastle to Methringham.

I think 3 hourly is a fair frequency for the Brigg line hopefully it will get this in the next franchise

I like your ideas, except for East Midlands getting the Barton Line.
What will happen to the early service from Doncaster to Grimsby?
Will some Barton line trains end at platform 3 in Grimsby Town?
What's wrong with Northern and what's so good about Stagecoach?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

It is good to see that the Manchester to Cleethorpes train is remaining. It's a well used service and is generally full by Scunthorpe when I've used it.

I think the Barton line should be run by the East Midlands franchise. They could share the Cleethorpes depot with Transpennine so later trains can run from Lincoln/Newark/Nottingham to Cleethorpes. Seeing the thread about connecting bus travel got me thinking and I believe Lincolnshire could be perfect. For example a buses could run from Market Rasen to Louth, Spalding to Bourne, Habrough to Immingham and Horncastle to Methringham.

I think 3 hourly is a fair frequency for the Brigg line hopefully it will get this in the next franchise

Market Rasen to Louth & Bourne to Spalding are already connected by bus. The level of demand is such that it is restricted to one or two a day or certain days only. Horncastle is linked to Sleaford & Lincoln by bus. Can't see the demand for a Horncastle to Metheringham link when the journey is possible through by bus.

 

[Rich_D3167]

I like your ideas, except for East Midlands getting the Barton Line.
What will happen to the early service from Doncaster to Grimsby?
Will some Barton line trains end at platform 3 in Grimsby Town?
What's wrong with Northern and what's so good about Stagecoach?

I doubt that the loss of the 05:29 Doncaster to Cleethorpes service would be too much of a bad thing. From what i've seen & heard, you struggle to get more than one handful of passengers on that service. All it is is a glorified empty stock move, anyway.

Just because EMT terminate most of their Lincoln/Newark services at Grimsby Town doesn't mean that if they ran the Barton services, they would cut them short. If they did run them, they would more than likely be the same as they are now. If anything, it makes more sense for EMT to run the Barton services rather than Northern, as apart from the aformentioned 05:29 Doncaster to Cleethorpes service & the Saturdays only Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Gainsborough Central services, the Barton line is the only service they run, separated from the rest of the Northern Rail network.

 

[Grimsby town]

This was the reason behind my thinking, Cleethorpes is cut off from the rest of the northern franchise. Even with a daily northern services on the Brigg line, a crew depot at Cleethorpes will not be justified. If it is given to the East Midlands franchise, with an improved service to Lincoln, a crew depot may be justified.

I would even go as far as saying the depot should be improved at Cleethorpes to cover light maintenance. There is room to build a small shed. You'd then have the cost savings of running trains empty to Nottingham from Lincoln and Sheffield from Barton. Stock would be in the correct position to cover flows. For example the morning flows are mainly Grimsby -> Lincoln -> Nottingham and vice versa in the evening.

I also think that if the East Midlands Franchise took over the running of stations like Habrough, Healing and Stallingbrough they may be encouraged to invest in real time information screens, free parking (Habrough) and increase services at the latter. This investment isn't really justified for the rural Barton service but could be if the Lincoln line is included.

I believe that the Grimsby to Lincoln route has real potential. I've been on a full and standing class 156 before but demand is suppressed by lack of advertisement, no clock face timetable and unsuitable stock. The line under central was run by class 170's, 158's and 156'. Now it's almost always 153's. Hopefully with the Lincoln 2 hourly London service, the Grimsby trains will be run to Nottingham/Derby with connections at Lincoln for London. What is really needed is a group for the line to demand a better service. There is the Market Rasen rail users group but I feel they'd have more success if the whole line was represented to get more people involved and a more clear set objectives thought out similar to the Brigg Line group.
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Market Rasen to Louth & Bourne to Spalding are already connected by bus. The level of demand is such that it is restricted to one or two a day or certain days only. Horncastle is linked to Sleaford & Lincoln by bus. Can't see the demand for a Horncastle to Metheringham link when the journey is possible through by bus.

You may be right with Horncastle it may not have the demand as I don't think there is a particular flow. My proposal is different to a bus service though. Rural bus services are usually slow and try to serve as many community's as possible. The service I propose would be limited stop, connect into the train service, be included in the timetable and would use through tickets. It would basically be a train service run by buses. For example the Louth service would connect into services heading towards Lincoln at Market Rasen. The bus would be of similar comfort level to a train. You would get on buy your ticket to were you want to go. Nottingham, London, Birmingham even Paris and Brussels.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Northern share the crewbase at Cleethorpes with TransPennine already. What my fear is, and also Humber Transport blogsite's is that the 153 will come from Lincoln if East Midlands got the line. The train from Doncaster is needed for anyone who works nights in Scunthorpe or Doncaster from Grimsby, my brother needs it!

Here's the article from Humber Transport:
It's worth a read despite being a long article.

http://humbertransport.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/are-east-midlands-trains-really.html?m=0

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Northern share the crewbase at Cleethorpes with TransPennine already. What my fear is, and also Humber Transport blogsite's is that the 153 will come from Lincoln if East Midlands got the line. The train from Doncaster is needed for anyone who works nights in Scunthorpe or Doncaster from Grimsby, my brother needs it!

Here's the article from Humber Transport:
It's worth a read despite being a long article.

http://humbertransport.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/are-east-midlands-trains-really.html?m=0

In that submitted link, mention is made about the possibility of First TPE being divested of their Cleethorpes service, but has it not very recently been officially said that First TPE are to retain that service?

 

[Tomnick]

Northern share the crewbase at Cleethorpes with TransPennine already. What my fear is, and also Humber Transport blogsite's is that the 153 will come from Lincoln if East Midlands got the line. The train from Doncaster is needed for anyone who works nights in Scunthorpe or Doncaster from Grimsby, my brother needs it!

Here's the article from Humber Transport:
It's worth a read despite being a long article.

http://humbertransport.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/are-east-midlands-trains-really.html?m=0

Northern don't share the traincrew depot at Cleethorpes, other than possibly the messroom facilities - they don't have any staff based there, which is why the whole Barton service is operated by TPE crews. I agree that transferring the Barton line alone to EMT isn't going to make much difference in that respect though. Dare I suggest that the whole of the South TPE route might be a better fit with EMT? They'd inherit the traincrew depots at Cleethorpes and Sheffield, solving the Barton 'problem' (if indeed it is really a problem) and reducing the need for long ECS moves for their existing Liverpool service. A small depot at Manchester Picc could probably be justified too, if necessary.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

In that submitted link, mention is made about the possibility of First TPE being divested of their Cleethorpes service, but has it not very recently been officially said that First TPE are to retain that service?

It's an old story but still applies as it is becoming likely EMT will get the line. The TPE link has been saved, but the invitations to tender have been delayed til next year, so all other details are secret now.
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Northern don't share the traincrew depot at Cleethorpes, other than possibly the messroom facilities - they don't have any staff based there, which is why the whole Barton service is operated by TPE crews. I agree that transferring the Barton line alone to EMT isn't going to make much difference in that respect though. Dare I suggest that the whole of the South TPE route might be a better fit with EMT? They'd inherit the traincrew depots at Cleethorpes and Sheffield, solving the Barton 'problem' (if indeed it is really a problem) and reducing the need for long ECS moves for their existing Liverpool service. A small depot at Manchester Picc could probably be justified too, if necessary.

Interesting, the DfT were asking to put the Liverpool to Nottingham with TPE south, and this is thing you suggest is a better deal in theory.
However, EMT has worse trains and this will eliminate competition between Sheffield and Manchester so service levels won't be a priority.
They will also have all routes out of Grimsby so might reduce service to the brink.

 

[Tomnick]

Given that EMT's fleet is already stretched, additional trains would have to be sourced from somewhere, so I wouldn't worry too much about the existing stock. The obvious choice would be releasing some 170s or 185s from the TPE franchise, since they'd have a roughly correspondingly smaller number of diagrams to cover. I don't know how the service quality out of Grimsby would be affected either - there's little opportunity to reduce the service on any of the individual routes!

 

[MisterWhippy]

Market Rasen to Louth & Bourne to Spalding are already connected by bus.

Technically speaking yes, but the Bourne to Spalding bus is on Tuesday morning and afternoon for the market in Spalding, the other services are effectively school busses. I have actually asked Delaine about whether running a service like the Stamford service (every 2 hours), and there isn't the demand.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Given that EMT's fleet is already stretched, additional trains would have to be sourced from somewhere, so I wouldn't worry too much about the existing stock. The obvious choice would be releasing some 170s or 185s from the TPE franchise, since they'd have a roughly correspondingly smaller number of diagrams to cover. I don't know how the service quality out of Grimsby would be affected either - there's little opportunity to reduce the service on any of the individual routes!

If EMT want this route, why should they not have the same difficulty in sourcing rolling stock as other TOC face. It is so easy to say "Let First TPE divest themselves of Class 185 units", which noting the seemingly ever-extending starting date for the cross-Pennine electrification project, will still be required by that franchise for a considerable period of time.

Incidentally, where did EMT receive rolling stock from to strengthen their services on the Liverpool to Norwich route to 4-car operation? Were these not from Northern Rail, who cannot find any rolling stock to run the fiasco that has entered the annals of railway folklore known as "The Todmorden Chord"...

Are not the Class 170 of the First TPE fleet already spoken for by another TOC when the lease period ends? Those Class 185 units would fill in there as their replacements on routes serviced by their Class 170 fleet?
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Technically speaking yes, but the Bourne to Spalding bus is on Tuesday morning and afternoon for the market in Spalding, the other services are effectively school busses. I have actually asked Delaine about whether running a service like the Stamford service (every 2 hours), and there isn't the demand.

Be careful, demands will soon be made for the reinstatement of the rail service to Theddlethorpe and Mablethorpe....

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Technically speaking yes, but the Bourne to Spalding bus is on Tuesday morning and afternoon for the market in Spalding, the other services are effectively school busses. I have actually asked Delaine about whether running a service like the Stamford service (every 2 hours), and there isn't the demand.

Market Rasen to Louth is a Monday to Friday shoppers bus from Rasen at 1000 & 1340 returning from Louth at 1310. Its run by TC Mini Coaches.

Should also point out that most journeys mentioned are available by prebooking on call connect.

 

[Mugby]

Havn't the majority of South TPE services now been turned over to Class 170 operation and doubled up to provide four cars instead of 3 car Class 185s?

 

[Tomnick]

Paul, my point was that the suggestion - often made on these fora - that a TOC taking over a route or a whole franchise will result in rolling stock previously used by that operator descending upon that route or franchise area is usually not valid! In the vast majority of cases, the stock and crews simply transfer over to the new TOC, and I see no reason why this would be any different. After all, and notwithstanding the separate issue of the potential loss of the 170s, TPE would have x fewer diagrams to cover each day, so the loss of approximately x number of units shouldn't affect them!

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Havn't the majority of South TPE services now been turned over to Class 170 operation and doubled up to provide four cars instead of 3 car Class 185s?

From what I see in Grimsby most are still 185's and 170's are seen quite less often. It might be just the times I travel

 

[bunnahabhain]

Most do seem to be 185s, with a few 4 car 170s during the daytime, and some 2 car 170s appearing during the early mornings and late evenings.

 

[lincolnshire]

From what I see in Grimsby most are still 185's and 170's are seen quite less often. It might be just the times I travel

Most times I travel they have been 185.s yet most times travelling from Hull they have been nearly always 170.s.

When you consider they started running them ( 185.s) from Hull to Manchester Airport with great hullabaloo about a wonderfull service they was starting only for them to be nicked to run up service up the West Side instead. Only to be replaced by secondhand 170 2 car sets and Manchester Airport service deleted.

Also all the money that was spent at Hull for 185 serviceing etc.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Is it possible, in theory, to have a Cleethorpes - Lincoln - Spalding - Peterborough semi fast service? I'm thinking mostly of better utillisation of rolling stock plus Northern could always extend their Sheffield stopper to Barton via Market Rasen, thus cutting out a potential ECS movement.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Is it possible, in theory, to have a Cleethorpes - Lincoln - Spalding - Peterborough semi fast service? I'm thinking mostly of better utillisation of rolling stock plus Northern could always extend their Sheffield stopper to Barton via Market Rasen, thus cutting out a potential ECS movement.

Cleethorpes-Lincoln-Splading-Peterborough and a service to Stratford in London via Cambridge was once proposed by Humber Coast and City railways which was backed by First. The Grimsby to Newark train runs quite fast to Lincoln, twice as fast as the more direct bus. They aren't many stops on both lines you mention so it wouldn't need to skip more stops.

The Sheffield to Lincoln line uses 142's not 153's. Pacers should not be used on Barton services as the extra room is not needed often. And wouldn't the Scunthorpe one be a better choice to use to change the unit?