The Train Line

[jon0844]

You do realise that a TOC can (and does) sell tickets for other TOCs and services? You could still use XC to buy tickets for Virgin, and vice versa.

 

[wintonian]

I ment I prefer the on train service offerd by Virgin.

 

[jon0844]

What's that got to do with where you buy your ticket from?

 

[wintonian]

It was just an example of how people sometimes pay more to use a company which they perceive to offer a better service or where that service does a better job of meeting their needs.

 

[bb21]

My apologies it was
mytrainticket.co.uk

90p booking fee?
56p optional credit card fee?

 

[taxidave]

90p booking fee?
56p optional credit card fee?

Absolutely no extra charges, paid with Visa debit and collecting tickets from Cheltenham station.
XC charge £1 to collect from the station and neither them or FGW could match mytrainticket price for tickets, £9.90 each way advanced, total price £19.80.

 

[moonrakerz]

Absolutely no extra charges, paid with Visa debit and collecting tickets from Cheltenham station.
XC charge £1 to collect from the station and neither them or FGW could match mytrainticket price for tickets, £9.90 each way advanced, total price £19.80.

mytrainticket.co.uk:

"By booking ahead through MyTrainTicket you could save as much as 80% compared to buying at the station on the day of travel.
Saving calculated against cheapest fare available on the day.
Prices based on cheapest available one way Standard Class Advance ticket,including 90p booking fee," (My highlighting)

Now where have I heard those weasel words before ? Better than 43% though

 

[jon0844]

I wonder when TVMs or ticket offices will have signs to say 'Save 95% buying your ticket before travel' with a reference to being stung for a full open ticket without any railcard discount when sold one on the train.

Maybe the Trainline etc could even say 'Avoid a day in court by buying a ticket in advance and not just turning up and jumping the gateline and trying to ride for free'. They could shorten this to say 'Buy from Trainline or get a criminal record'. With the disclaimer, it will be technically true and should scare millions into buying from them.

Seriously, the fact is you can save money by buying an advance ticket, in advance. If all comparisons are going to be made against a ticket you buy at the last possible moment, then everyone is going to be able to offer 'big savings'. That would be fine, until that same discount ticket (as against discounted) gets a booking fee and maybe even a credit card charge too.

Grrr!

 

[bnm]

Absolutely no extra charges, paid with Visa debit and collecting tickets from Cheltenham station. XC charge £1 to collect from the station and neither them or FGW could match mytrainticket price for tickets, £9.90 each way advanced, total price £19.80.

I'd check your statement or booking confirmation if I were you. I cannot find anyway that mytrainticket will waive their 90p booking fee. Yes, you can avoid a delivery fee by collecting at a station and there is no transaction fee for using a debit card, but you have still paid 90p more than you would've done if you'd bought your tickets from XC (and printed at home or delivered to mobile - agreed, they do charge £1 for collection) or FGW (no charge for delivery or collection).
Also the tickets you bought would've been available from from XC and FGW at the same price.

If you really did avoid mytrainticket's 90p booking fee, could you tell us how?

 

[taxidave]

I'd check your statement or booking confirmation if I were you. I cannot find anyway that mytrainticket will waive their 90p booking fee. Yes, you can avoid a delivery fee by collecting at a station and there is no transaction fee for using a debit card, but you have still paid 90p more than you would've done if you'd bought your tickets from XC (and printed at home or delivered to mobile - agreed, they do charge £1 for collection) or FGW (no charge for delivery or collection).
Also the tickets you bought would've been available from from XC and FGW at the same price.

If you really did avoid mytrainticket's 90p booking fee, could you tell us how?

I have checked my bank statement online and have been debited £19.80 by mytrainline for my journey.
Neither FGW or XC were offering an outward journey on the direct train at 8.42 for £9.90, both quoted about £12.00 but all three had the same price of £9.90 for my return journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also the tickets you bought would've been available from from XC and FGW at the same price.

I have just had a look at the three websites for my journey which is on March 19th from Cheltenham to Manchester using the 8.42 out and 18.27 return and a senior railcard. and have found the following.
Outward FGW 12.85 MTT 12.85 XC 11.90
Return FGW 9.90 MMT 9.90 XC 9.25

So all TOC's do not charge the same fare.

 

[jon0844]

Did you compare the tickets at the same time? We tried some simply fare checking in the office earlier (for a colleague going to Bristol this weekend) and found that if you pick the tickets on one site, they're 'reserved' for a short time (to stop them being sold by the time you enter your details/payment) - and once he'd done that on Trainline, he couldn't then find them on EC.

Thus, if there were only 1 or 2 cheap tickets left, you may have inadvertently made them unavailable yourself! If you didn't go ahead and then tried later on another site, it may well have shown the tickets again after the original (failed) purchase timed out.

 

[telstarbox]

Am I right in thinking it's always cheaper to buy via a TOC website than Rail Easy, Red Spotted Hanky and TheTrainLine?

 

[island]

Am I right in thinking it's always cheaper to buy via a TOC website than Rail Easy, Red Spotted Hanky and TheTrainLine?

Cheaper or the same price. Usually cheaper.

Certain TOC websites may have special reductions on tickets for their own services.

 

[moonrakerz]

Cheaper or the same price. Usually cheaper.

Certain TOC websites may have special reductions on tickets for their own services.

............and sometimes reductions if you buy through them but actually travel with another TOC.
FGW did this, giving £5 vouchers to use against any ticket purchased through their website.

 

[alloneword100]

Only just read this thread, very interesting. There was a comment further up about 'getting into the mind of a TTL user', so here are the thoughts of another...

I started using TTL back in it's early days, when my recollection is that it didn't have a booking fee. I used to travel a lot of different routes by train then and I discovered fare splitting for myself by using it.

When they added the booking fee, I still went on using it, because of the ability to collect tickets from the self-service terminals. I am disorganised, and always used to be in danger of leaving the tickets at home when they were posted to me.

I probably now only make half a dozen journeys a year that aren't covered by my season ticket or where the tickets aren't provided by my employer. Having read this thread, I'll certainly look at using the TOC, but presumably I have to use the one running the mainline station I am leaving from (my trips invariably start from London) if I want to collect from the self-service terminal? Frankly, for six quid a year, I might well just stick with TTL because I have never had any problems with them. However, the possibility of getting cheaper ticket prices will at least make me look, and I agree that TOCs should be advertising more aggressively about why they are better.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'll certainly look at using the TOC, but presumably I have to use the one running the mainline station I am leaving from (my trips invariably start from London) if I want to collect from the self-service terminal?

No you can pick up from any station you want (that offers collection facilities) regardless of who operates it and who you bought the tickets with.

 

[Greenback]

(Sorry, didn't see ainsworth84's reply!)

No you don't have to use the TOC that runs the station where you want to collect the tickets from the TVM.

TBH, the idea that 'I'll stick with them because I've never had any problems' is one that a lot of companies rely on. Some one like TTL will rely on regular customers staying with them as much as they rely on their slick, technically correct but deliberately misleading adverts to attract new customers.

The fact that a lot of people use TTL does not alter the fact that they are never going to be any cheaper than the alternative methods of buying the same tickets despite their clever claims that are designed to make people think that they are.

 

[moonrakerz]

Frankly, for six quid a year, I might well just stick with TTL because I have never had any problems with them.

The problem is that IF you do get a problem with a remote ticket seller it becomes more difficult to resolve it.
Practically all my journeys are with FGW or SWT. I always buy my tickets from these two TOCs and usually collect from my local station (FGW managed). If I get a problem I can go and talk to the friendly and helpful staff at my station rather than sending e-mails to who knows where.
Also I know from personal experience in a couple of cases, that if I have to write to FGW HQ I do get an individual response from someone who works for a rail company - not someone getting a rake-off from selling someone else's product - and in both cases I was sent rail vouchers - Well done FGW !

 

[Mojo]

The fact that a lot of people use TTL does not alter the fact that they are never going to be any cheaper than the alternative methods of buying the same tickets despite their clever claims that are designed to make people think that they are.

I agree. It's not as if you have to go on a really slow website, install any software, visit any office or call a premium rate phone number to get these cheaper tickets. In fact you wouldn't even have to learn a new interface as you can find one or two that are exactly the same!

 

[yorkie]

The best thing to do is stick to ONLY TOC sites, and to 'shop around' using the TOC site that is best for your particular ticket. Recently I have used:

East Coast
CrossCountry
TransPennine.

If I was to travel with EMT I'd book with them as they also offer a discount now.

I use Print @ Home if it is available as it is more convenient and I have a 'backup' in case I misplace the ticket!

I've never paid a fee to collect from a machine or have tickets posted as I will either use another website or find a way round it.

 

[Greenback]

Indeed, there always ways to avoid fees. I use different websites as well, depending on the trip and whether they are offering any extra discounts!

I wonder if some of the people who are happy with TTL say so because they were convinced by the advertising, and don't want to admit that they thought it was the cheapest way to buy rail tickets?

 

[bnm]

Return FGW 9.90 MMT 9.90 XC 9.25
So all TOC's do not charge the same fare.

He's right, you know. I've just checked MAN-CNM 19th March on the 1827. FGW quoting £9.90. XC quoting £9.25 (Railcard prices). That's without selecting the service to avoid the chance of the fare 'selling out'. Besides I checked FGW first. I'm not aware that XC are offering a discount on fares on their routes if bought from their website. So why the 7% difference?

EDIT:
Hmm... thetrainline are also quoting £9.25 for this fare. With EMT quoting £9.90.

Curiouser and curiouser. Can anyone explain what's going on?

 

[Mojo]

FGW is selling the ticket route AP XC ONLY WVH which is £9.90 whereas XC are selling the route XC ONLY which is £9.25.

[Railcard prices given]
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Edit: it appears that it isn't; upon clicking ''Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available'' it is showing an XC Only at £9.25 for which is not available, an AP XC ONLY WVH for £9.90 which is not available, and a £9.90 XC ONLY. Which does not exist according to Avantix.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Manual says the correct price for the MCS ticket is £9.90.

 

[bnm]

So we are in the realms of a systems error, rather than one retailer charging less than another???

 

[GodAtum]

I was wondering if anyone has done a scientific study on this? There must be some uni thesis out there!

 

[Mojo]

Surely theTrainline has got to be the best example of the persuasive power of marketing! How to get people to pay more for exactly the same product.

 

[OwlMan]

FGW is selling the ticket route AP XC ONLY WVH which is £9.90 whereas XC are selling the route XC ONLY which is £9.25.

I think it is to do with their price freeze (only available at XC?).
In the last edition of Avantix the WVH flow did not exist.
It was introduced in NFM08. If you put in an enquiry for December it is priced the same as the normal XC flow. Since the increase some bands of advance faes have increased & some have stayed the same.
Where the Route XC fare has increased, the Route XC WVH fare has not and is the same as the pre-rise XC fare.

Peter

 

[Mojo]

It could be. From the XC website: "now you can enjoy CrossCountry train journeys in 2011 at 2010 prices - when you book your Advance tickets at crosscountrytrains.co.uk." East Coast, EMT Trains, NXEA and others offer cheaper tickets when booking through their own websites but there aren't 2 types. Saying that it's not uncommon, as FGW offer AP SLOUGH and GREAT WESTN ONLY for the same flows, but I don't think it has anything to do with sales through different websites.

I've just checked on Avantix NFM07 and the archive for NFM07 of the Manual and they both did exist but were the same price.

 

[LexyBoy]

I have an example of different pricing... A year or two ago, I was i hunting around for cheap Advances for an Oxford-Manchester return. Most sites gave a few options, with one nice cheap ticket. However, when I tried to buy it they came up with an error- except one site (i think Qjump, but I might be wrong). At the time I thought this was a bit strange, but thought maybe this site had reserved the last tickets at the time.

When i came to collect the tickets, just before boarding, only the tickets were printed. No reservations. I boarded with these tickets and the booking reference, and never did get to find out what happened. I guess the booking engine thought those tickets were available so sold them, but was unable to issue the necessary reservations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The tickets were issued as "x of y coupons", and I had all of the tickets issued and none of them was a reservation. Can't remember what was on the tickets- whether there was a "only valid with xxxxxxx" or not.

 

[cuccir]

Very odd lexyboy: how long ago was this? Sounds like you managed to break the booking engine somehow!


I think the message from the above posts is that if you want to guarantee the absolute cheapest deal, you should at least check the TOC with whom youre travelling, even if you don't usually use them.