Ticket machines

[chrisg]

Hi,

I often travel on the 10.02 train from Earlsfield to Walton on Thames. I can't buy my tickets from a machine before 10.00am (I wish to use my YP card) as it says the fare will be £12 with my YP card (yet £5.90 without), so I always need to queue at the ticket window, which is normally ok. However there have been times recently when the window is closed for half an hour at a time, around 9.45 to 10.15.

Anybody got any advice on what to do? SWT trains have announcements and there are posters up clearly saying that you must be in possession of a valid ticket to travel on a train and I'm not risking getting fined by a member of staff on board when trying to buy one. I understand that there is a need to prevent people buying YP tickets and using them before they are allowed to, but you would think the ticket machines would sell them after 9.45 or something like that - 2 minutes is not long enough to buy your tickets from a machine and go all the way to the other side of the station and not miss your train!

Cheers.

 

[causton]

If you get to the ticket office at 9:45 and it says it's closed till after your train comes, there should be no problem with buying a ticket that goes partway towards your journey from the TVM and then exchanging that on board for your full ticket

You could probably do it with no ticket at all, but then you could be seen as trying not to pay any fare at all!

 

[chrisg]

If you get to the ticket office at 9:45 and it says it's closed till after your train comes, there should be no problem with buying a ticket that goes partway towards your journey from the TVM and then exchanging that on board for your full ticket

You could probably do it with no ticket at all, but then you could be seen as trying not to pay any fare at all!

Aaaah, hadn't thought of that! Will the guard definitely accept it and not try to charge me higher prices?

 

[causton]

Aaaah, hadn't thought of that! Will the guard definitely accept it and not try to charge me higher prices?

I'm not the guard so I can't possibly comment!

The guard should accept that - I presume there isn't a 'Permit to Travel' machine (usually red and black, looks like a car park ticket one) around? You could also put some money in that and exchange it for a ticket but I don't think there's many of those round still...

 

[Urban Gateline]

Just to add some facts to this debate, SWT services from Earlsfield only have Non-Commercial Guards who cannot sell tickets, so if the OP did wish to buy a ticket and later exchange it, the best opportunity is at the Ticket Office in Walton on Thames which is open long hours. Definitely better to have a ticket than no ticket at all though.

In reality the Ticket Office in Earlsfield should be open longer, it is possible that the staff member takes their break at the time the OP mentioned as the shift is normally from 6am to 2pm or something similar, so a break at 10am would be reasonable.

Earlsfied is undergoing refurbishment at the moment, hence the lack of a proper ticket office and barriers. There are Oyster validators by the stairs to the platform and 4 TVM's on the platform.

 

[swt_passenger]

...I presume there isn't a 'Permit to Travel' machine (usually red and black, looks like a car park ticket one) around?

There won't be one, as SWT removed them all except at minor stations without full TVMs... PTT machines are not a DfT requirement anymore.

 

[island]

There won't be one, as SWT removed them all except at minor stations without full TVMs... PTT machines are not a DfT requirement anymore.

I like PERTIS machines. They are in many senses more useful than full TVMs.

 

[trevmonk]

This problem has come up before on the forum with another operator. First Capital Connect ticket office staff often won't sell a railcard discounted ticket until 10.00 and the ticket machines are programmed likewise.

The way I got round it was to buy a railcard discounted ticket online and pick it up from the machine at the station. You can pick it up at any time of the day, or even the day before. Also if you buy online with South West Trains going via the Quidco cashback site you get 2.6% of your money back!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If the ticket office is closed, the clerk *should* inform their control centre, who *should* contact all RPIs (or similar) to inform them of the closure.

If the office is closed and the ticket machines available cannot issue the ticket you require (or a permit to travel) you should purchase a ticket for atleast part of your journey, which you must then change for the correct ticket at the first reasonable opportunity. If you fail to buy any ticket you can receive a penalty fare.

Staff should take their break at a point that causes the lease inconvenience to passengers, however, some inconvenience will be caused where a frequent service is in operation. In my opinion any break taken around 1000 is going to cause inconvenience and should be avoided.

 

[EM2]

In my opinion any break taken around 1000 is going to cause inconvenience and should be avoided.

On an eight-hour shift, the break must be taken between the third and fifth hours. If the shift starts at 6am, it must therefore be between 9am and 11am.

 

[Terrafire]

In situations like this machines like those found in Tokyo would be useful. All the machine sells is a ticket at a price of your choosing, and it's your responsibility to find your destination on the fare charts by the machine and pay your money. Of course, it helps that all stations are barriered and there's no penalty for adjusting your fare at your destination (and in fact machines to do it for you).

 

[Mojo]

A similar thing happened to me on SWT. A TVM at Kew Bridge (unstaffed) tried to apply the £12 minimum fare for an Off-peak Day Travelcard issued at 09.32. This is incorrect, so I bought an SDS to Waterloo. When I arrived I approached an RPI on the gateline who advised me that I did not need to do this (contrary to the advice of the NRCoC) and could have just bought my Travelcard from him.

I went to the ticket office (on his advice) and was told that it would only be possible to get a refund (he filled in a carbon copy form) which could take up to 3 weeks, and to buy the correct ticket from him. This is obviously unsatisfactory as it either requires the customer to contravene the NRCoC, or to carry over 50% more funds than required on the day. I have written to SWT for advice on what to do.

 

[John @ home]

A TVM at Kew Bridge (unstaffed) tried to apply the £12 minimum fare for an Off-peak Day Travelcard issued at 09.32. This is incorrect

Are you sure?

The Manual -> London -> London Area Travelcards

Minimum Fares on Railcard discounted Day Travelcards

Off-Peak Day Travelcard

A minimum fare applies to Railcard discounts on adult Off-Peak Day Travelcards at all times (including during July and August). The minimum fare is £5.30 until 01 January 2012. From 02 January 2012 the minimum fare is £5.60.

• The minimum fare also applies to a discounted Zones 1-6 ‘Inboundary’ Off-Peak Day Travelcard. (Note: Railcard discounts are NOT available on any other zonal combinations of Day Travelcards)
• Where a Railcard has its own minimum fare rules, e.g. Network Railcard, the higher minimum fare amount applies. (Note: Network Railcard holders therefore should be issued with the appropriate full price ‘Inboundary’ Off-Peak Day Travelcard.)

 

[yorkie]

Well, as is often the case, it's a question of which rule 'trumps' the other rules. The 16-25 Railcard states "London Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard (subject to a minimum fare of £5.30) Some ticket types offered by individual train companies. Please enquire locally for details" (£5.30 is out of date)

What does The Manual say in the section on 16-25 Mininum Fares? Does it list 'ODT' as one of the ticket types that has a £12 minimum fare or does it list the £5.60 minimum fare? Not all ticket types are subject to a minimum fare e.g. Advance.

 

[route:oxford]

Hi,

I often travel on the 10.02 train from Earlsfield to Walton on Thames. I can't buy my tickets from a machine before 10.00am (I wish to use my YP card) as it says the fare will be £12 with my YP card (yet £5.90 without), so I always need to queue at the ticket window, which is normally ok. However there have been times recently when the window is closed for half an hour at a time, around 9.45 to 10.15.

Not entirely the same thing, but when I used to take the 09.02 service from Oxford to Reading, the Ticket Machines would sell me the off-peak Reading/London ticket once the previous service was timetabled to depart.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well, as is often the case, it's a question of which rule 'trumps' the other rules. The 16-25 Railcard states "London Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard (subject to a minimum fare of £5.30) Some ticket types offered by individual train companies. Please enquire locally for details" (£5.30 is out of date)

What does The Manual say in the section on 16-25 Mininum Fares? Does it list 'ODT' as one of the ticket types that has a £12 minimum fare or does it list the £5.60 minimum fare? Not all ticket types are subject to a minimum fare e.g. Advance.

I can't check The Manual 'til I get in to work next, but the 16-25 Railcard website says....

Minimum fares / Time restrictions

Please remember that for all journeys made at or before 10am Monday to Friday, a £12 minimum fare applies. If you travel regularly before 10am then a weekly or monthly season ticket may be more appropriate (a Railcard discount will not apply). However, there is NO minimum fare on Public Holidays and during July or August. For full details of minimum fares, please ask at your local staff station or National Rail licensed Travel Agents.

So it is fairly clear that any travel made before 10am (Monday to Friday, not Bank Holidays or in July and August) is subject to the £12 minimum fare.