That raises another question - for me, at least. What use are First Class Boundary Zone tickets? Presumably you won't have a 1st class travelcard - or are you OK if you have an outboundary 1st class travelcard on another route?
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Ticket Oddities, Rarities etc
- Thread starter Roverman
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That raises another question - for me, at least. What use are First Class Boundary Zone tickets? Presumably you won't have a 1st class travelcard - or are you OK if you have an outboundary 1st class travelcard on another route?
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RJ
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kieron
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TOCs don't actually pick which route an advance ticket takes. While there are lots of easements in the Central Belt, I can't see anything obvious which would allow that sort of journey.
There are VWC & Connections tickets available if you take the TPE train from Edinburgh to Carstairs and the Virgin one from there, but that may be it.
bb21
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I didn't say that was the case for definite. As already mentioned, I think the reason the fare existed can be more appropriately explained by cluster pricing.
Maybe not for this flow, there are plenty of other flows where Advances are valid on routes which are not valid with walk-on tickets.
kieron
Established Member
You didn't, no. Nor did you say that such an easement would suit Virgin better than it would TPE (who actually run most of the trains to Lockerbie).
Just as well, really.
Do you have an example? The only Virgin-specific easement I can see in the printed guide is 700249, which I don't think does anything at all.
bb21
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One example off the top of my head is Leicester - York via Birmingham, which is not a permitted route however XC Only fares are sold (or used to be the case).
There are other examples although I am on the move so will supply more details when I get a chance.
RJ
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greatkingrat
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How do you know they exist then?
LexyBoy
Established Member
You play a cruel game RJ...
We can presumably rule out:
Where's the fun in that? Put it in the Quiz forum, we might have an answer within a year!
We can presumably rule out:
- Flows within the London Zones
- Flows with origin/destination outside the NSE area
- Flows where there are no Permitted Routes via West Norwood (I know this is not a necessity for a routed ticket, but it's true in the vast majority of cases)
- Anything RJ has checked and wishes to share...
Where's the fun in that? Put it in the Quiz forum, we might have an answer within a year!
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bb21
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RJ
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Some clever person posted a list of the number of flows were used in conjunction with each route a couple of years ago (here.) West Norwood was right near the bottom of the list with 2, not 5 instances as I incorrectly recalled. Never did find out what those tickets were!
Most of the London ones with 100 occurrences or less are tricky to find.
- No idea about Lewisham, Sutton, Not Sutton or Waddon.
- "NEW CROSS N X GT" is easy enough to find flows for.
- Elmers End and Mitcham Junction are for local through tickets onto Tramlink.
- The GBP flows are all Oyster PAYG, used to issue those paper tickets for the purpose of topping up through the FasTiS machine.
- The AAA flows are all for season tickets I believe, except the AAA London Zones between 7 and 9 inclusive which are available for day tickets.
- LIPBS-CLJ NT LDN is a bit of a mystery to me as I don't know what LIPBS means, was thinking Liphook/Basingstoke.
Routing is an area of ticketing I find fascinating. If I knew how to search tickets by the route, it would open up a whole new ball game with regards to finding useful tickets.
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AndyLandy
Established Member
It's not all that uncommon for an AP ticket to be more expensive than the equivalent single walk-on fare (or more than half the cost of a walk-on return fare)
http://twitpic.com/3eak05
I remember reading something about a bus at Liphook so it may be something to do with that.
Found it: http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/liphookbordonbus.aspx
Colin 2905
Member
G'day from Down Under. 
In planning a few rail trips in a few month's time, I've come across something that strikes me as odd.....
Some advance singles on XC from BHM to YRK are £16.50, but BHI to YRK (changing at BHM to the same BHM to YRK service) is £12.
Anyone know why?
Cheers,
Colin
In planning a few rail trips in a few month's time, I've come across something that strikes me as odd.....
Some advance singles on XC from BHM to YRK are £16.50, but BHI to YRK (changing at BHM to the same BHM to YRK service) is £12.
Anyone know why?
Cheers,
Colin
Advance Purchase tickets aren't regulated or priced according to mileage or any set formula. They're set according to commercial demands.
If the TOC (Train Operating Company) who prices the ticket thinks that passengers are prepared to pay more, then the ticket price will be more. There is likely to be more demand from Birmingham than from Birmingham Int'l.
Another possibility is that the lowest priced quotas from Birmingham have sold out, but the lowest priced quotas from Birmingham Intl haven't, so you're comparing the cheapest fare from BHI with a fare from BHM which isn't the cheapest.
Because Advance tickets forbid break of journey, the Birmingham Int'l ticket cannot be used to start short from Birmingham, so the TOCs can get away with this policy.
If the TOC (Train Operating Company) who prices the ticket thinks that passengers are prepared to pay more, then the ticket price will be more. There is likely to be more demand from Birmingham than from Birmingham Int'l.
Another possibility is that the lowest priced quotas from Birmingham have sold out, but the lowest priced quotas from Birmingham Intl haven't, so you're comparing the cheapest fare from BHI with a fare from BHM which isn't the cheapest.
Because Advance tickets forbid break of journey, the Birmingham Int'l ticket cannot be used to start short from Birmingham, so the TOCs can get away with this policy.
northernman
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I have a few 'Gotham City to South Pole' Aptis type tickets knocking around somewhere, engineers test tickets I must say and not issued to the public. Always amused me, but I should probably get out more
Hyphen
Member
I have a few 'Gotham City to South Pole' Aptis type tickets knocking around somewhere, engineers test tickets I must say and not issued to the public. Always amused me, but I should probably get out more
Those stations aren't available to ticket office staff, are they? I SO want to walk up and ask for one
Colin 2905
Member
Thanks Martin, I see now.
greatkingrat
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Thanks to ATOC releasing the fares data we now know that the only flow using this route is GIPSY HILL - LONDON INTL(CIV). Quite why anyone would want to buy it is a mystery as it is considerably more expensive than the Any Permitted ticket (which is of course valid via West Norwood anyway).
A few of the other rare routes mentioned are
NOT SUTTON - used for Hackbridge/Carshalton/Mitcham Jn - London Intl
WADDON - a few routes like Bookham-Selhurst or Clandon-Norbury
VIA SUTTON - used for journeys from stations between South Merton and Sutton Common, to stations between Shoreditch High St and Dalston Junction
LEWISHAM - used for Catford/Ladywell/Bellingham/Crofton Park to Bromley North/Elmstead Woods/Grove Park/Sundridge Park
RJ
Established Member
Fantastic - would never have guessed that for the via West Norwood fare! Cheers for clearing that up
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