"Timetable's changing. You can't have one."

[Bromley boy]

However,the current and ongoing issues of online journey planners not being updated in decent time isn't a great advert for online planning, though obviously a paper timetable changes just as much.

Indeed.

A recent conversation I had with a passenger who came up to my cab went as follows:

Him: “does this train stop at X?”
Me: “no, I’m afraid not”.
Him: “well my app says it does.”
Me: “well my diagram says it doesn't, and I’m driving it, so it won’t”.

 

[47271]

I spend quite a bit of time each week on Virgin or Transpennine trains sat in Preston station and it's absolutely true that the mobile signal is terrible there.

 

[radamfi]

A pdf timetable and a printed timetable can only give an indication of train times. They don't take into account changes due to disruption or engineering work. Even before the internet, you still couldn't rely on printed timetables 100% and you had to telephone the station or look on Teletext for changes to train schedules. Those without a suitably equipped television or home phone were at a disadvantage and their only choice was to visit a staffed station.

Many countries have long stopped issuing printed timetables although they will probably give you a printed itinerary at a staffed station on request. Even before the internet, some countries only sold full network books rather than giving away individual route timetables. In some countries, the timetable book was a national best seller.

 

[6Gman]

Yes, very odd. Perhaps they'd run out of the current ones, but if that's the case why not just apologize and say so? Why would they "put them away"? Normally, stations are very keen to hand out remaining stocks of timetables that are about to expire; so there are less copies to be thrown in the skip (or, hopefully these days, the recycling bin).

Quite. "They've run out and it's not sensible to print new ones so close to the timetable change" would have been a reasonable answer. So would "we take them off display but I can give you one but bear in mind it's only valid until the 19th".

"They've put them away because people are too thick to read the dates!" (I paraphrase) isn't!

And in the case of Northern it is worth noting that a couple of weeks ago at Hyde Central they were still displaying the May - December 2017 timetable ...

 

[randyrippley]

Given Northern's current problems they're probably loathe to hand out ANY timetables. That way they can't be criticised for cancelling trains.
To be truthful, at the moment at Preston you'd be better off walking to the bus station if you wanted to get to Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley or Bolton. At least you know the buses will have a driver available.

 

[jon0844]

I'm out today and have two phones on me. Both dual SIM and with access to three networks. There's also Wi-Fi on the train. Connectivity isn't a problem.

But a printed timetable or itinerary is always useful when traveling. It's quicker to access and show to others in a group. The phone is good for getting live running info, of course.

GTR only got limited stock of the May 20 timetable last week, so initially they're not being put out (people like to grab a few, or take one today, another tomorrow because they left it at home etc) and available on request only.

Once more arrive, they'll be on the racks.

 

[duffield]

Just to throw in this snippet: A few days ago the national media were reporting a suggestion that it should soon be compulsory for everyone to carry a smartphone at all times, for the purposes of crime detection etc.! They didn't seem to have thought of the fact that the would-be criminal is probably not that bothered about breaking the 'phone carrying' law!

 

[Bromley boy]

"They've put them away because people are too thick to read the dates!" (I paraphrase) isn't!

Yet I expect that’s a big part of why they have been removed.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just to throw in this snippet: A few days ago the national media were reporting a suggestion that it should soon be compulsory for everyone to carry a smartphone at all times, for the purposes of crime detection etc.! They didn't seem to have thought of the fact that the would-be criminal is probably not that bothered about breaking the 'phone carrying' law!

Citation needed on that one I think.

 

[bearhugger]

Citation needed on that one I think.

Indeed! I know a couple of people who have smartphones but have their 3G / 4G / wifi connections turned off. I know that doesn't stop tracking of everything (like which cell tower the phone has connected to as you travel about). There's a heck of a lot of information that could be retreived from a smartphone by Police etc. But that's going off topic. There are times I prefer to use a paper timetable, there are times i prefer to use my phone / tablet to find information.

 

[theironroad]

Citation needed on that one I think.

Probably don't need one it was bound to be something crazy in the Mail or Express.

 

[Dentonian]

what are you on about? This isnt 1953 anymore!

No. More like "1984"

 

[Dentonian]

And yet with my 4G smartphone I can tell instantaneously, for any station in the country:
- where my train is (in real time);
- which platform it will come in on;
- real time info on delays;
- I can read it easily in poor light due to being backlit and zoom in on small text;
- it won’t blow away in the wind;
- I can download documents to read offline;
- agreed on the battery point .

I can only assume pts 1 & 3 are far more accurate in Bromley than they are "oop North".

 

[Dentonian]

No, they’ll just be disadvantaged, like you would be if you didn’t have a telephone number or an address to send post to.

I’m fascinated by people who staunchly refuse to get mobile or online. They’re like the Japanese holdouts of World War Two. Who will be the last one to emerge from the jungle, emaciated and insane?


.

see reply #13. With life expectancy supposedly ever increasing; 53% of over 55s is a hell of a lot of "holdouts"

 

[AlterEgo]

see reply #13. With life expectancy supposedly ever increasing; 53% of over 55s is a hell of a lot of "holdouts"

Most of them won’t be regular train users though.

 

[6Gman]

Most of them won’t be regular train users though.

I see a lot of over-55s on trains. Indeed, I am one!

 

[Dentonian]

Most of them won’t be regular train users though.

True - but apart from the fact that applies to the population in general (outside the Home Counties), the comments put forward here by the likes of DarloRich seem to be lauding the fact that smartphones and computers are increasingly controlling everybody's life. My brother works in IT and is far more Computer literate than me, and he has massive misgivings about such things as Internet banking (prompted by RBS closing ALL branches within about 6 miles of here) and the fact that signals are so poor. Indeed, there was something on the News this morning about 9% of the population still can't get an mobile phone signal AT ALL. Where do these 5 million people figure in your Brave New World?

 

[DarloRich]

And yet with my 4G smartphone I can tell instantaneously, for any station in the country:
- where my train is (in real time);
- which platform it will come in on;
- real time info on delays;
- I can read it easily in poor light due to being backlit and zoom in on small text;
- it won’t blow away in the wind;
- I can download documents to read offline;
- agreed on the battery point .

and your evil smart phone wont fall apart immediately if it gets wet

You’ve clearly never downloaded a PDF timetable onto your phone or taken a screenshot...

WITCH! personally i would cut the number of printed timetable booklets produced and transfer the cost of printing onto the user. Download and print at home. If you don't have a computer public libraries often offer really good IT facilities and basic training.

No. More like "1984"

I don't understand your point? Are you suggesting that smart phone ownership is part of some vast conspiracy to introduce a totalitarian surveillance state? It is a good job there are hold outs like you standing up for liberty and freedom. It isnt as if the government can't monitor you via the very medium you are using to interact with this board.........................

 

[AlterEgo]

I see a lot of over-55s on trains. Indeed, I am one!

I think the majority of train users over 55 have a smartphone. There are of course some people who don’t.

The figure quoted up thread, don’t forget, will include the significant number of very elderly people who don’t or can’t use trains. Many are housebound or in care.

People who are over 55 and don’t have a smartphone and who moan at being “left behind” should, well, get a smartphone. It makes your life a lot easier. People who were slow to get home computers and internet access, and people who were late to even get a basic mobile telephone, were placed at a disadvantage.

There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have any method of technology that the large majority of socially active people have, but don’t moan about feeling excluded.

 

[AlterEgo]

True - but apart from the fact that applies to the population in general (outside the Home Counties), the comments put forward here by the likes of DarloRich seem to be lauding the fact that smartphones and computers are increasingly controlling everybody's life. My brother works in IT and is far more Computer literate than me, and he has massive misgivings about such things as Internet banking (prompted by RBS closing ALL branches within about 6 miles of here) and the fact that signals are so poor. Indeed, there was something on the News this morning about 9% of the population still can't get an mobile phone signal AT ALL. Where do these 5 million people figure in your Brave New World?

So you agree that not having a smartphone places a person at a disadvantage then?

 

[6Gman]

There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to have any method of technology that the large majority of socially active people have, but don’t moan about feeling excluded.

I've already explained that I do have an I-phone but a paper timetable would have been preferable.

I have no intention of telling technophiles that they shouldn't use their technology; it would seem reasonable for that courtesy to be returned.

If the TOCs decide to stop issuing paper timetables at some future date fair enough. In the meantime they shouldn't lock them away.

 

[6Gman]

If you don't have a computer public libraries often offer really good IT facilities and basic training.

Funnily enough Preston station doesn't have a public library ...

 

[etr221]

Just to throw in this snippet: A few days ago the national media were reporting a suggestion that it should soon be compulsory for everyone to carry a smartphone at all times, for the purposes of crime detection etc.! They didn't seem to have thought of the fact that the would-be criminal is probably not that bothered about breaking the 'phone carrying' law!

Citation needed on that one I think.

See at https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/11/top_judge_mulls_compulsory_mobile_phone_carrying/ ... cue comments on the unworldliness of judges...

But I did read a report that the security services were regarding not having a phone as suspicious.

 

[DarloRich]

Funnily enough Preston station doesn't have a public library ...

you are being silly.

If the TOCs decide to stop issuing paper timetables at some future date fair enough. In the meantime they shouldn't lock them away.

No they shouldn't. However the current issues with releasing the NW timetbales may well have played a part

 

[Dentonian]

WITCH! personally i would cut the number of printed timetable booklets produced and transfer the cost of printing onto the user. Download and print at home. If you don't have a computer public libraries often offer really good IT facilities and basic training.



I don't understand your point? Are you suggesting that smart phone ownership is part of some vast conspiracy to introduce a totalitarian surveillance state? It is a good job there are hold outs like you standing up for liberty and freedom. It isnt as if the government can't monitor you via the very medium you are using to interact with this board.........................[/QUOTE]


In case you hadn't noticed, Libraries are closing right, left and centre and others (like ours) have transferred to the voluntary sector and only open for about 4 hours a day 2-3 days a week.

I hadn't thought of the conspiracy theory, but now you mention it................... Point being that the "totalitarian surveillance state" could be based anywhere in the world. No, my point was more the demand to conform with the norm - and a norm dicatated by big business and the younger generation. I've always found it ironic that the free market only benefits those that conform to the norm; you must have private transport; you must have modern technology (and the education to use it); you must travel to/in London more than anywhere else in the UK (or beyond); you must never travel and require accomodation as a single person; you must have good (physical) health etc etc.

 

[Dentonian]

So you agree that not having a smartphone places a person at a disadvantage then?

Er, yes. Just like not having a car puts people at a disadvantage; not having a job puts people at a disadvantage (and not having a car puts people at a disadvantage in the jobs market!); not having good health puts people at a disadvantage and so on. The point being that everything nowadays is based on "instead of" rather than "as well as".

 

[Dentonian]

See at https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/11/top_judge_mulls_compulsory_mobile_phone_carrying/ ... cue comments on the unworldliness of judges...

But I did read a report that the security services were regarding not having a phone as suspicious.

I'd better warn my 85 year old uncle (via landline, of course) to except MI6 to come banging the door down soon then.

 

[6Gman]

you are being silly.

This thread is about a passenger (which happened to be me) being told at Preston that East Lancs paper timetables were unavailable because the timetable in ten days time would be changed.

It then went rather off-topic into discussing the various merits of paper v online timetables during which you suggested printing timetables at libraries. Which - I would suggest - was irrelevant to somebody standing on Preston station ...

That's all.

 

[muz379]

If the TOCs decide to stop issuing paper timetables at some future date fair enough. In the meantime they shouldn't lock them away.

completely agreed . The justification here does seem a bit daft . They could have given you the timetable and told you to be wary that it only runs until next Saturday . Unless they did not have any because someone has already thrown them away . But even then that was a bit daft .

 

[Mugby]

Interesting about Derby because I picked up both the new EMT and XC timetables 2 weeks ago in which both the current and new times are available to pick up since then.

Yes, I got some this evening. Very surprising, there must have been a change of policy!