"Timetable's changing. You can't have one."

[theblackwatch]

And yet with my 4G smartphone I can tell instantaneously, for any station in the country:
- where my train is (in real time);
- which platform it will come in on;
- real time info on delays;
- I can read it easily in poor light due to being backlit and zoom in on small text;
- it won’t blow away in the wind;
- I can download documents to read offline;
- agreed on the battery point .

Yet you can't, at a glance (for example), look up the Leeds-Manchester times and see quickly what 2 spots provide the best stop off points to go for a quick drink in the limited time of 2 hours you have - it#s cumborsome to do so. Equally with looking up 'non connections' (ie if there is a non-guaranteed connection at places).

 

[Bromley boy]

Unless they did not have any because someone has already thrown them away . But even then that was a bit daft .

Probably because the poor sod in the ticket office knows full well that people will take those timetables, not notice the date, and then raise hell when the new timetable begins and everything is different.

You can just imagine the rant:

“I’ve missed my train!
What do you mean the timetables changed? Why the hell were you still giving the old one out last week when everything has changed this week?” etc.

Damned either way.

Keep in mind that it’s beyond many people even to interpret a departure board and make sure they get onto the right train when its platform and calling pattern is audibly announced and is displayed on a smaller illuminated board three feet away from it, let alone read a timetable.

Yet you can't, at a glance (for example), look up the Leeds-Manchester times and see quickly what 2 spots provide the best stop off points to go for a quick drink in the limited time of 2 hours you have - it#s cumborsome to do so. Equally with looking up 'non connections' (ie if there is a non-guaranteed connection at places).

That’s a fair point. I agree with comments above that making traditional timetables available in PDF form would be a good way forward - I imagine this would also make them more accessible to those with visual impairments as they can access them from a backlit device.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Probably because the poor sod in the ticket office knows full well that people will take those timetables, not notice the date, and then raise hell when the new timetable begins and everything is different.

You can just imagine the rant:

“I’ve missed my train!
What do you mean the timetables changed? Why the hell were you still giving the old one out last week when everything has changed this week?” etc.

Damned either way.

Keep in mind that it’s beyond many people even to interpret a departure board and make sure they get onto the right train when its platform and calling pattern is audibly announced and is displayed on a smaller illuminated board three feet away from it, let alone read a timetable.

They could always tell them when they handed the timetable over.

None of it matters in 1 week's time anyway as Northern's official position is they will release the new printed timetables on 1 June. So anybody wanting to travel for the week and a bit prior to that won't have a clue what time the trains are anyway.

 

[AlterEgo]

See at https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/11/top_judge_mulls_compulsory_mobile_phone_carrying/ ... cue comments on the unworldliness of judges...

But I did read a report that the security services were regarding not having a phone as suspicious.

That’s a judge making a speech. He doesn’t make the law. He might as well be someone on this forum. Next.

 

[Bromley boy]

That’s a judge making a speech. He doesn’t make the law. He might as well be someone on this forum. Next.

To be pedantic judges can and do “make law” through judicial decisions (we live in a common law jurisdiction).

But agreed, they certainly don’t make law in boring, windbaggish speeches to the law society.

 

[AlterEgo]

To be pedantic judges can and do “make law” through judicial decisions (we live in a common law jurisdiction).

But agreed, they certainly don’t make law in boring, windbaggish speeches to the law society.

They don’t write new laws though. He was not being entirely serious but was rather illustrating a point about changing perceptions.

 

[route101]

Weird experience at Preston today. Wanted to use the East Lancs but wasn't sure where exactly I wanted to go - depended on journey times and return train times. (Not an area I know well.)

Plenty of Virgin, TPE and even XC (!) timetables in the booking hall, but nothing Northern.

Went to the enquiry desk. Told "timetable's changing so they've put them away".

As I say, weird! (Still over a week to go.)

I was down in Lancashire too, couldnt get paper timetables anywhere for Northern . Thought something was up .

 

[Nevasleep]

If they were to stop printed timetables, I'd be interested to see if they continue with online PDFs, or hide everything behind journey planners/ticket systems (so they don't have to pay for a timetable booklet to be designed).

 

[Statto]

Merseytravel always change timetables over on the date itself unless there's a major shutdown on Merseyrail, like the loop last year when timetables were available well before the shutdown, even PDFs are still not up on the Merseytravel site, i expect PDFs to be up sometime this week. Oddly though Merseytravel have PDF bus timetables up before the change date as soon as they get the new bus timetable.

 

[mpthomson]

Just to throw in this snippet: A few days ago the national media were reporting a suggestion that it should soon be compulsory for everyone to carry a smartphone at all times, for the purposes of crime detection etc.! They didn't seem to have thought of the fact that the would-be criminal is probably not that bothered about breaking the 'phone carrying' law!

If you actually read the Register link, no-one was proposing that at all. It was raised as a hypothetical situation, and purely as an example of a possible possibility, by a senior judge, and preceded with a very big 'If the legislators decided to...'.

Not a serious proposal in any way, shape or form and with no time scale (as it's not a proposal).

 

[DarloRich]

“I’ve missed my train!
What do you mean the timetables changed? Why the hell were you still giving the old one out last week when everything has changed this week?” etc.

Damned either way.

Keep in mind that it’s beyond many people even to interpret a departure board and make sure they get onto the right train when its platform and calling pattern is audibly announced and is displayed on a smaller illuminated board three feet away from it, let alone read a timetable.

That’s a judge making a speech. He doesn’t make the law. He might as well be someone on this forum. Next.

two correct answers!

 

[Wombat]

Unfortunately some models (iphones) don’t have user-changeable batteries so you are forced to carry a mains charger (and find a socket) or lug a bulky power pack around.

A bit off-topic, but it may be useful to some: I got one of these the other day at Poundland. Fits easily in my pocket and costs £1 (which you'd think is obvious but sometimes stuff does cost more at these places).

 

[muz379]

Probably because the poor sod in the ticket office knows full well that people will take those timetables, not notice the date, and then raise hell when the new timetable begins and everything is different.

You can just imagine the rant:

“I’ve missed my train!
What do you mean the timetables changed? Why the hell were you still giving the old one out last week when everything has changed this week?” etc.

Damned either way.

Keep in mind that it’s beyond many people even to interpret a departure board and make sure they get onto the right train when its platform and calling pattern is audibly announced and is displayed on a smaller illuminated board three feet away from it, let alone read a timetable.

I appreciate that , but it would have been no hardship to explain to the limited number of people who came and asked for a timetable . Either way if someone is too daft to check the date that the timetable is in operation then that is their problem .I guess being dim is another thing that places people at a disadvantage

A bit off-topic, but it may be useful to some: I got one of these the other day at Poundland. Fits easily in my pocket and costs £1 (which you'd think is obvious but sometimes stuff does cost more at these places).

Personally I would not trust cheap lithium cells like this .

 

[AlterEgo]

A bit off-topic, but it may be useful to some: I got one of these the other day at Poundland. Fits easily in my pocket and costs £1 (which you'd think is obvious but sometimes stuff does cost more at these places).

There’s no way I’d trust a cheap power bank.

 

[jon0844]

There’s no way I’d trust a cheap power bank.

There's a guy on YouTube that hacks these things apart and judges them, and I think he's actually been quite complimentary to some of the £1 chargers, adapters and LED lights (torches etc).

They'd likely be safer than buying on eBay, but the point is that it's 1250mAh and with the losses you'd get when charging, that's probably not even going to charge many modern phones even once, let alone more. Plus the output will likely be incredibly slow (5V 1A at most).

So for those reasons alone, go onto Amazon and buy something around 5,000mAh and with a decent output (2A) and if you use a reputable brand like Anker, you'll be fine and able to keep your phone topped up with no risk.

 

[Megafuss]

Looking through this thread I am reminded of the time i bought a month pass from a bus enquiry office. I noticed all the timetable leaflets were behind the desk, not free to pick one.

I asked why they were there and not on the "customer" side. "People keep taking them" was the dry response

 

[PeterC]

This all reminds me of National Express in pre internet days. I was told that the new timetable would be available on the day that it started. As I was trying to plan journeys to take place soon after the new timetable started and about a week after my enquiry I borrowed my mum's car instead.

However, having worked in a number of customer facing roles in my life I know that there is a section of the public who seem to make a point of misunderstanding any information put in front of them.

 

[jamesr]

The other forgotten bunch of people here are those without UK SIM cards and data roaming. As one of those people, it can be a real nuisance to have to pick up an excessive data roaming charge when I'm stood somewhere, the service has gone up the spout and I need to find a plan B!

There must be plenty of tourists and business people travelling around every day in a similar predicament!

 

[theironroad]

The other forgotten bunch of people here are those without UK SIM cards and data roaming. As one of those people, it can be a real nuisance to have to pick up an excessive data roaming charge when I'm stood somewhere, the service has gone up the spout and I need to find a plan B!

There must be plenty of tourists and business people travelling around every day in a similar predicament!

Well at the moment at least data roaming is no more expensive when roaming in an EU country than using the data plan in your eu home country, which covers a lot of tourists and business people when roaming. For the rest, buying a local SIM card is usually one of the first things they do if going to be in a country for more than a few days. I'd imagine the number of people from overseas on a visit wanting to get on RTT or NRE is pretty slim.

 

[Dougal2345]

What would be useful (if it doesn't exist already) would be an app. that stores the entire UK timetable database locally on your device (just downloading changes and updates when online) allowing timetable queries to be made when offline. It could also handle either 'journey planner' queries or display times for a route in a tabular form - ie like a traditional booklet.

The other thing I'd like to see is for the National Rail website to be available through on-train WiFi without the need to log in to the train company's WiFi gateway...

 

[Steve Harris]

To be pedantic judges can and do “make law” through judicial decisions (we live in a common law jurisdiction).

But agreed, they certainly don’t make law in boring, windbaggish speeches to the law society.

I think you will find that those very important politicians in the Palace of Westminster make the "law".


Judge's decide how it should be interpreted and applied !

 

[randyrippley]

I was down in Lancashire too, couldnt get paper timetables anywhere for Northern . Thought something was up .

Whats the point of issuing timetables when there's a high probability of cancellation or bustitution?
Northern haven't a clue what services they can run each day, so there's no point giving passengers false hope by issuing times of trains that won't run

 

[bnm]

I think you will find that those very important politicians in the Palace of Westminster make the "law".

Judge's decide how it should be interpreted and applied !

They also set precedents with judgements. These precedents are then used in subsequent cases to determine if a law is broken.

That's the common law, set by judicial precedent and distinct from the statute law drafted by Parliament.

So yes, judges do 'make' laws.

 

[theironroad]

I think you will find that those very important politicians in the Palace of Westminster make the "law".


Judge's decide how it should be interpreted and applied !

I seem to recall from school that in England it is a combination, sure parliament makes lots of statute law and currently EU law is absorbed into UK law automatically, which is what the 'take back control' brigade want to bring back to the UK parliament.

However, courts and judges do also make law in the common law system through the setting of precedents.

 

[Bromley boy]

They don’t write new laws though. He was not being entirely serious but was rather illustrating a point about changing perceptions.

I take back my previous comment.

Reading the speech in full, it’s well observed and rather amusing.

 

[mmh]

A pdf timetable and a printed timetable can only give an indication of train times. They don't take into account changes due to disruption or engineering work. Even before the internet, you still couldn't rely on printed timetables 100% and you had to telephone the station or look on Teletext for changes to train schedules. Those without a suitably equipped television or home phone were at a disadvantage and their only choice was to visit a staffed station.

Oh really, are you suggesting no timetables should be provided because they might sometimes be wrong? Bus stops with none? (Unfortunately lots of those do exist, but they shouldn't)

Many countries have long stopped issuing printed timetables although they will probably give you a printed itinerary at a staffed station on request. Even before the internet, some countries only sold full network books rather than giving away individual route timetables. In some countries, the timetable book was a national best seller.

Let's not aspire to do the same as those countries then.

 

[TUC]

see reply #13. With life expectancy supposedly ever increasing; 53% of over 55s is a hell of a lot of "holdouts"

The position is rapidly changing. According to Deloittes, 71% of 55-75 year old have smartphones, from only around 26% five years ago.
https://www.deloitte.co.uk/mobileuk/#hi-ho-silver-swiper
https://www.deloitte.co.uk/mobileuk/#smartphone-and-tablet-penetration

For those arguing about signal quality at some locations, remrmber that what is bring focussed on above is timetable availability, not real time updates. The latter aren't available through print timetables either, but online timetables can be stored on phones in advance, so a signal at the station isn't necesssry.

 

[TUC]

Yet you can't, at a glance (for example), look up the Leeds-Manchester times and see quickly what 2 spots provide the best stop off points to go for a quick drink in the limited time of 2 hours you have - it#s cumborsome to do so. .

That's exactly the kind of thing you can do more easily with smartphones isn't it? I'm not aware of many print timetables thst tell you the nearest pub!

 

[ivanhoe]

Printed timetables are great for point to point journeys. Travel Loughborough to Birmingham and I’m afraid you need larger pockets because it requires change of trains and different companies. As a 65 year old who has had smart phones since they first came on the scene( as many of my age group have,contrary to opinion on here)the smart phone tells me when my next train home is, whether I go via Derby or Leicester, and if I miss this one, when the next one after is. Such is progress. Indeed, come to think of it, I’ve enough rubbish in my pockets.

 

[radamfi]

Oh really, are you suggesting no timetables should be provided because they might sometimes be wrong? Bus stops with none? (Unfortunately lots of those do exist, but they shouldn't)



Let's not aspire to do the same as those countries then.

Printed information at the station or at the bus stop and pdf timetables also exist outside the UK. There's no problem producing those to show an indication of the service. It can never be a replacement for real time information.