Todmorden Curve

[61653 HTAFC]

Does anyone on here know what's the most likely traction to be used on these services?

Will the Todmorden Curve be too tight for a Class 142, even though the curve will have a check rail?

I think one of the reasons the original alignment couldn't be used was that it was unsuitable for 23m stock running in more than single-car formations (155/156/158s), so the 'new' curve is at least less sharp than the original.

 

[CalderRail]

One hopes they've built it with an eye towards eventual electrification as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One hopes they've built it with an eye towards eventual electrification as well.

Do not ask for electrification, as a refusal often offends..:roll:

 

[Darren R]

One hopes they've built it with an eye towards eventual electrification as well.

Let's get the damned thing built first! Think you're getting a bit carried away with yourself on that one!

 

[driver9000]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I see the new junction on the East Lancashire line between Burnley Manchester Road and Hall Royd Junction leading onto the curve has been named Stansfield Hall Junction.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I see the new junction on the East Lancashire line between Burnley Manchester Road and Hall Royd Junction leading onto the curve has been named Stansfield Hall Junction.

Yes, that's what we used to call it when it was one.

 

[driver9000]

Yes, that's what we used to call it when it was one.

I suspected as much, spotted it in the notices

 

[IrishDave]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but I see the new junction on the East Lancashire line between Burnley Manchester Road and Hall Royd Junction leading onto the curve has been named Stansfield Hall Junction.

Interesting - the new edition of Quail track diagrams book 4 (published this week, my copy arrived yesterday) names it as Whiteplatts Jn! What's your source?

 

[NotATrainspott]

One hopes they've built it with an eye towards eventual electrification as well.

I wouldn't imagine Network Rail doing anything without passive provision for electrification now since they would be footing the bill for fixing their own mistakes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One hopes they've built it with an eye towards eventual electrification as well.

I suppose that it could be seen as an adjunct to an electrification scheme that would encompass the Calder Valley line and the Preston to Colne line.

 

[The Planner]

Interesting - the new edition of Quail track diagrams book 4 (published this week, my copy arrived yesterday) names it as Whiteplatts Jn! What's your source?

Signalling diagrams I have seen have it as Stansfield Hall Jn too.

 

[driver9000]

Interesting - the new edition of Quail track diagrams book 4 (published this week, my copy arrived yesterday) names it as Whiteplatts Jn! What's your source?

Weekly notice.

 

[Darren R]

Interesting - the new edition of Quail track diagrams book 4 (published this week, my copy arrived yesterday) names it as Whiteplatts Jn! What's your source?

Whiteplatts Junction? Where have they got that name from - it hasn't been called that since 1895!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whiteplatts Junction? Where have they got that name from - it hasn't been called that since 1895!

Was there not a Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway signal box of that name in that period which was later replaced by the Stansfield Hall signal box ?

 

[Darren R]

Was there not a Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway signal box of that name in that period which was later replaced by the Stansfield Hall signal box ?

There was indeed - situated in the V of the junction. It closed in 1895 to be replaced by a new box on the other side of the tracks. I believe that's when the junction was renamed Stansfield Hall.

 

[Sox]

There was indeed - situated in the V of the junction. It closed in 1895 to be replaced by a new box on the other side of the tracks. I believe that's when the junction was renamed Stansfield Hall.

Maybe they have reverted to an even earlier name to avoid confusion with the last name (unpurged records can be a real engineering issue, e.g. drawing title blocks, wiring diagrams etc).

 

[edwin_m]

But surely the junction is the old junction, even down to retaining the S&C for the loco siding and crossover, so renaming it will just cause confusion?

 

[Signal Head]

Maybe they have reverted to an even earlier name to avoid confusion with the last name (unpurged records can be a real engineering issue, e.g. drawing title blocks, wiring diagrams etc).

The Sectional Appendix doesn't name the junction, but the engine spur is named as Stansfield Hall. The signalling plan (for the existing layout) also doesn't give a name, presumably because it ceased to be a 'real' junction when Preston PSB was commissioned.

The siding area has always been known as Stansfield Hall since then, that's what I expect the new junction to be called, and is what is shown on the drawings I have seen.

 

[The Planner]

Just checked the version of the plans I have and it is Stansfield Hall Jn.

 

[L+Y]

it ceased to be a 'real' junction when Preston PSB was commissioned.

Ah, this is something I'd always wondered.

The original Todmorden curve was closed in 1972/73, then?

Any idea when the last trains ran over it?

 

[Signal Head]

Ah, this is something I'd always wondered.

The original Todmorden curve was closed in 1972/73, then?

Any idea when the last trains ran over it?

Not the last train, but the list of closed lines formerly held on the Rinbad site lists Todmorden East Junction to Stansfield Hall as 'taken out of use' on 31/3/73. The 'Junction' suffix seems not to have been applied to SH box, according to the naming in the Preston stage Section C notice.

The area was resignalled onto Preston PSB in October of that year.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What radius will the new Todmorden Chord be ?

 

[Welshman]

Ah, this is something I'd always wondered.

The original Todmorden curve was closed in 1972/73, then?

Any idea when the last trains ran over it?

According to this, the last local service from Todmorden to Rose Grove was in 1965:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todmorden_railway_station

I assume the curve closed for regular passenger traffic at the same time.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

What radius will the new Todmorden Chord be ?

About 180 metres

 

[Ploughman]

So by rights check rail looks like it will be required.
As the upper limit on radius is, I think, 201m?

 

[Sox]

More information available re the Holme Tunnel repairs:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10665581.Disruption_for_East_Lancashire_rail_users/

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

More information available re the Holme Tunnel repairs:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10665581.Disruption_for_East_Lancashire_rail_users/

So Saturday, 9th November is now the starting date for these works.

 

[Darren R]

So Saturday, 9th November is now the starting date for these works.

That's the plan - posters advising of the closure went up at Blackburn station last week (guessing that's where the Lancashire Telegraph journalist got the story from! )

With a stated closure period of 20 weeks that makes for a re-opening date of 31st March by my reckoning. How long will be needed for route learning, and from which depots will the crews be drawn? I'm guessing the first trains over the curve will be spotted by the end of March.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just read a posting on the Manchester - Liverpool Electrification thread, part of which is relevant here:

Originally Posted by WatcherZero
The Todmorden Curve will be completed in February, Lancashire CC has agreed to TfGM request that the new Blackburn, Accrington, Burnley, Manchester via Todmorden service will call at Littleborough offpeak however there wont be any DMU available to operate these extra services through to Blackburn until Dec 2014. So from May 2014 until Dec 2014 as an interim measure the Kirkby-Wigan-Rochdale service will be extended to Todmorden and then reverse on the curve, in addition the two evening Victoria-Rochdale services will be extended to Todmorden. From Dec 2014 the Manchester-Todmorden service would be extended to Blackburn though it isnt clear if that would continue as an extension of Wigan/Kirkby-Rochdale or an entirely new service between Manchester and Blackburn.

So it's going to be December before services start because of a lack of units. I can see there being major ructions from the local press, politicians and rail user groups.

 

[Eagle]

I'm assuming the DMUs for the service are dependent on EMUs appearing in December 2014 on the Liverpool to Manchester and Wigan lines?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So it's going to be December 2014 before services start because of a lack of units. I can see there being major ructions from the local press, politicians and rail user groups.

I can see this news raising a smile on the faces of those who are tasked with the continued operation of the X41 bus service from Blackburn to Manchester.