Too many bikes on train

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[.n]

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First time this has actually happened to me. Guard refusing to allow my train to depart as too many bikes on train and aisles all blocked.

They are a hazard but it does highlight the lack of space for bikes, prams etc.

Anyway all resolved and we only 4 minutes late departing!
 
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LowLevel

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I do it frequently. I'm not being held up as accountable if people can't move out of a carriage if a fire starts because I've allowed 10 people to wedge their contraptions into the vestibules. Their contempt is shown when they happily leave them across the bog doors as if the other passengers should just suck it up and deal with it.

They often get very nasty if refused as well.

Same goes for pushchairs. No amount of screaming and shouting will allow them to be left in an unsafe position on board my trains (like the ludicrous ones that are at least 5 feet long for 2 children and basically totally block wherever they park - wheelchairs and scooters that size are barred). If they're not able to be stowed safely they don't go.

Key out of the doors and walk off to avoid conflict until the matter resolves or the police arrive, whichever is first. It's a criminal offence to refuse the guard's safety instructions, and it's liable to result in consequences for the guard if they allow the train to depart loaded unsafely and something happens.
 

TheEscapist_

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it's liable to result in consequences for the guard if they allow the train to depart loaded unsafely and something happens.


That's what people don't realise! They think you're just being awkward but it's your job. It's like when I shout at the train huggers saying goodbye to stand back and they just give me a dirty look. Yesterday I went up to them after refusing to stand back and told them if they don't stand back the train doesn't move. Got called a jobsworth but not risking my job for these idiots.

Anyway, people but some really huge prams, they're fine if you're not using public transport. I've seen prams not been able to fit through class 158 doors!
 

mbreckers

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There is currently an ongoing "thing" up my way because the new Class 385's will only have two spaces for bikes on the main Edinburgh-Glasgow route.

But its not an issue because cyclists just use the wheelchair spaces then refuse to move their junk when a wheelchair boards.
 

Bletchleyite

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But its not an issue because cyclists just use the wheelchair spaces then refuse to move their junk when a wheelchair boards.

Which is why multipurpose space is a terrible solution. Wheelchair space for wheelchairs, bicycle space for bicycles, and no tip-up seats in either. It takes up hardly any space if you use the vertical type.
 

mbreckers

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Which is why multipurpose space is a terrible solution. Wheelchair space for wheelchairs, bicycle space for bicycles, and no tip-up seats in either. It takes up hardly any space if you use the vertical type.

Unfortunately the services im thinking about do have dedicated cycle storage, but that means walking down to the next carriage
 

mbreckers

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Ah.

Time for a change in the law for Penalty Fares to apply to improperly stowed bicycles (or bicycles on peak services where banned), perhaps?

As far as I know we don't have Penalty Fare's up here in Scotland at all, we seem to have hardly any power to deal with fare evaders either.
 

HarleyDavidson

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We've had over 40 on a 4 car. On the seats in the gangways and aisle and they wouldn't get off either.

That's thanks to Boris Johnson and the London - Surrey classic, the response from control, well you deal with it, they didn't give a damn.:roll:
 

The Ham

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The problem often boils down to:
- people make a choice to stop driving and so use the train or need to start using the train for another reason
- driving to the station is prohibitively expensive (i.e. they are better of driving to where they are going) so they look at other ways of getting to the station
- walking takes too long and there are few or no buses or the buses are prohibitively expensive so they cycle
- they then struggle to find a suitable place to store their cycle at the station and/or they need a bike at the other end (for the same reasons as above)
- they then take the bike on the train
- folding bikes are expensive compared with non folding versions and so few use these

Some of the number of cycles on trains could be removed by the TOC's providing suitable cycle parking, however that costs money and so they leave it to their staff to deal with the problem of there being too many cycles on the trains (especially on routes where it may only be one or two trains a day over which it happens).

The more rural the places served the more likely it is to be a problem as buses and/or walking are not viable (i.e. no bus service or very infrequent bus service or no footway over lengths of their route or needing to walk 2 or 3 miles to the station), especially if they are travelling between two rural locations.
 

HarleyDavidson

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Some of the worst are in and around Portsmouth.

Loads have bikes, they go to Fratton because they know that they don't need a ticket to travel, then travel to Hilsea get off and wait for the next one to get to either Cosham or Bedhampton to avoid paying up, some will do the few minutes ride to Cosham to reboard there unchallenged and free.

They go to Bedhampton because of the barriers at Havant.
 

Bletchleyite

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Some of the number of cycles on trains could be removed by the TOC's providing suitable cycle parking

TOCs in the South East tend to manage this perfectly well, and it is very common practice to have a cheap bike stored at the destination for use on arrival. This is far more practical than everyone taking their bike on the train - normally it is the case that one end of the journey, typically the destination, will be quite a short trip.

Providing a row of Sheffield stands (the best, most secure type of non-locker bicycle parking) is not an expensive nor difficult undertaking. I can see no reason why every station, however small, should not be provided with these.

It is then perfectly viable to either ban bicycles from peak trains (as in the SE) or to levy a small charge to encourage parking your bicycle at the station (it needn't be huge - a couple of quid would suffice - remember how much difference the 5p bag tax has made, and how much people go out of their way to avoid paying small parking charges in towns).
 
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LowLevel

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To be fair in many places TOCs are providing facilities for cycle storage at stations - I know round here all the old Victorian/slightly later stations are having any spare spaces converted into large cycle hubs with shops and repair facilities included - Leicester's old parcels office basement, Sheffield's buildings on platform 1, Kettering as well etc, and where they aren't blessed by vacant disused spaces, larger storage areas with CCTV etc. Though I can't help but think Mansfield Woodhouse is a bit optimistic in terms of any stored bikes being there on the return of their owner. The problem is people wanting to cart about a bike costing as much as a small car rather than having two cheaper ones at either end, while moaning about the European way of doing things and how we don't support green transport etc. Happily I've travelled throughout Europe and when they mention Dutch Railways enjoy putting them right about the peak time on board cycle ban, and additional charge off peak for cycles AND unfolded pushchairs.
 

Bletchleyite

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Indeed. If you want a fancy 2 grand road bike by all means have one (cycling is after all to be encouraged), but for a daily short commute you're best with a hybrid costing a couple of hundred if that. Such bikes are not desirable and rarely get nicked.

I'm in a way surprised that anyone with a 2 grand road bike wouldn't have a second "daily hack" bike anyway. Most people who are genuinely enthusiastic about cycling subscribe to the adage that the best number of bicycles to own is N+1, where N is the current number owned.
 
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DarloRich

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The more rural the places served the more likely it is to be a problem as buses and/or walking are not viable (i.e. no bus service or very infrequent bus service or no footway over lengths of their route or needing to walk 2 or 3 miles to the station), especially if they are travelling between two rural locations.

this is a problem we have on the Marston Vale. It is rural and people cycle to the station for a 1 car 153. It is often very full of bikes which cause obstructions and delays in loading and unloading.

Cycle storage might help but the investment needed on a line like ours would never repay its costs. Easier to leave it to the guard to decide what to do. I wouldn't like to be the guard leaving people behind on a small station with one train an hour:

"sorry chum. 2 bikes on already. next train in an hour. buzz buzz."
 

Bletchleyite

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This is one reason I think it'd be good to get D78s for lines like the Marston Vale. A custom layout could be used which could accommodate far more bicycles as tend to be needed on such rural services. The 153 really isn't fit for purpose. (Though a 150 with the 150/1 van area layout would be - you can get at least ten bikes in those easily).

OTOH, installing say 4 Sheffield stands at each station would probably only cost a couple of days' subsidy.
 

313103

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First Great Western or whatever they are called now, will be implementing a reservation for bikes on there services, in other words if you dont book a reservation for the bike on that particular train you maybe refused to entry to the train.

I am very dubious about this coming in now as i believe it is designed to put people off from bringing there bike on the train, bearing in mind the new trains WONT have a storage area like the current HSTs do.

As for cycle storage facilities at stations, it is all well and good having them, but who is responsible should a theft take place especially as like the one at the station i work in have them (although not yet commissioned) but have cctv looking down at the facilities?
 

Bletchleyite

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I am very dubious about this coming in now as i believe it is designed to put people off from bringing there bike on the train

Being able to be certain of being carried would encourage, not discourage, me from bringing my bike on the train, particularly if the reservations are easy to obtain, e.g. via a mobile app or similar rather than just at the station, and provided they can be obtained, if available, right up to departure.
 

mbreckers

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As for cycle storage facilities at stations, it is all well and good having them, but who is responsible should a theft take place especially as like the one at the station i work in have them (although not yet commissioned) but have cctv looking down at the facilities?

The same for any car park at a train station, you are responsible. And there will be signs saying as such.

CCTV will merely be to give the appearance of being safe, and to assist BTP if there are any thefts.
 

Bletchleyite

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As for cycle storage facilities at stations, it is all well and good having them, but who is responsible should a theft take place especially as like the one at the station i work in have them (although not yet commissioned) but have cctv looking down at the facilities?

You are responsible for your bicycle. If you think theft is likely, insure it - it isn't costly.
 

DeeGee

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It is then perfectly viable to either ban bicycles from peak trains (as in the SE) or to levy a small charge to encourage parking your bicycle at the station (it needn't be huge - a couple of quid would suffice - remember how much difference the 5p bag tax has made, and how much people go out of their way to avoid paying small parking charges in towns).

Problem is, if you charge people to put their bikes on a train BEFORE they put their bike on a train, they have a reasonable expectation that their bike will be conveyed. And if there's not enough space then it does become the TOCs problem, because the contract that they've paid for is for the bike to be conveyed.

It might prevent some use, but it might encourage others. I haven't taken a bike on a train since the removal of the guard's van because I haven't had the guarantee that it would be allowed on. I might be more likely if I thought I could pay for a space.

Particularly if, as per above, it comes with a reservation, and you can have a through reservation from origin to destination.
 
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BestWestern

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We've had over 40 on a 4 car. On the seats in the gangways and aisle and they wouldn't get off either.

That's thanks to Boris Johnson and the London - Surrey classic, the response from control, well you deal with it, they didn't give a damn.:roll:

Train cancelled, then! They might have been slightly more interested at that point...

I've always used discretion, but there really is a point where it becomes genuinely dangerous!
 

swt_passenger

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I am very dubious about this coming in now as i believe it is designed to put people off from bringing there bike on the train, bearing in mind the new trains WONT have a storage area like the current HSTs do.

Just to clarify, you are meaning that there won't be a single bike store at one end of the train. They will still carry bikes in a number of separate stowages in some of the vestibules, a bit like XC Voyagers?
 

BestWestern

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Just to clarify, you are meaning that there won't be a single bike store at one end of the train. They will still carry bikes in a number of separate stowages in some of the vestibules, a bit like XC Voyagers?

Yes, they will. Two per storage 'pod', upright. Exactly like a Voyager, in fact.
 

PermitToTravel

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Problem is, if you charge people to put their bikes on a train BEFORE they put their bike on a train, they have a reasonable expectation that their bike will be conveyed. And if there's not enough space then it does become the TOCs problem, because the contract that they've paid for is for the bike to be conveyed.

It might prevent some use, but it might encourage others. I haven't taken a bike on a train since the removal of the guard's van because I haven't had the guarantee that it would be allowed on. I might be more likely if I thought I could pay for a space.

Particularly if, as per above, it comes with a reservation, and you can have a through reservation from origin to destination.

It works alright on Virgin Trains, where no bikes are permitted without reservations and this is enforced by staff at all of their stations
 

notlob.divad

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Maybe we should strip all the seats etc out of the 142s/anything else that cannot be made compliant and fill them with hanging bike racks/areas for large luggage/prams etc. They can attach on the end of existing formations and get dragged around like trailers.

---- Slowly walks towards the door ----
 

455driver

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It works alright on Virgin Trains, where no bikes are permitted without reservations and this is enforced by staff at all of their stations

What relevance has a long distance operator that only stops at barriered stations got to do with the thousands of commuter services which serve unbarriered stations?

How do you stop them getting onto the stations which are served by several operators?
 
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