TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[86247]

o yeah much more fun was in the DT yesterday going to Liverpool 68027 at the back and my god I could still hear it pulling away from Victoria and lea green

 

[The Northern Star]

Current plan for MK5 passenger service...

Days not running: Saturday (31st), Monday (2nd)

Days running: Sunday (1st), Tuesday (3rd), Wednesday (4th), Thursday (5th), Friday (6th), Saturday (7th), Sunday (8th), Monday (9th)

 

[tpjm]

The only improvement I can suggest is a 68 on each end of the train

Where is your sense of adventure?

Several colleagues and I are desperate to see a 68 sandwiched between two MkVa sets... imagine that.

 

[The Northern Star]

Several colleagues and I are desperate to see a 68 sandwiched between two MkVa sets... imagine that.

That would be hellfire.

 

[SP Man]

Where is your sense of adventure?

Several colleagues and I are desperate to see a 68 sandwiched between two MkVa sets... imagine that.

Unfortunately it will not work, the front DT would only control that set and the loco but not the set behind it.

 

[86247]

that would be double hellfire having 2 68s I would be in Manchester in 15 minutes or less

 

[tpjm]

Unfortunately it will not work, the front DT would only control that set and the loco but not the set behind it.

I’m involved in this project so know that it’s technically not possible, but still, just imagine...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Where is your sense of adventure?

Several colleagues and I are desperate to see a 68 sandwiched between two MkVa sets... imagine that.

I know it's a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but would a 68 actually be able to supply ETS out both ends if such a setup ever happened?

As far as I know some Belgian LHCS sets are able to work in multiple and divide en-route, much like multiple units often do. Obviously platform lengths would limit the viability of such operation for TPE.

 

[tpjm]

I know it's a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but would a 68 actually be able to supply ETS out both ends if such a setup ever happened?

As far as I know some Belgian LHCS sets are able to work in multiple and divide en-route, much like multiple units often do. Obviously platform lengths would limit the viability of such operation for TPE.

Sounds like a question for my engineering colleague! The coaches are not able to run in multiple so ETS would be just one part of the puzzle.

 

[EE Andy b1]

As far as I know some Belgian LHCS sets are able to work in multiple and divide en-route, much like multiple units often do. Obviously platform lengths would limit the viability of such operation for TPE.

I know that the Dutch railways NS used to do it with Class 1600/1700 electric locomotives push & pull in various formations.

You could have....

Loco-Coaches-Coaches Loco.
Loco-Coaches-Loco-Coaches.
Coaches-Loco-Loco-Coaches.

All with driving trailers.

I also remember years ago seeing a German DB railways diesel Cass 218 in the middle of six coaches, 3 either side of the loco Driving trailer each end.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Unfortunately it will not work, the front DT would only control that set and the loco but not the set behind it.

It wouldn't need to would it? The leading DT controls the locomotive as usual, so as long as the loco can supply ETS to both sets at once, the DT at the rear is unused just like the rear cab on any unit.

I guess the TMS software probably wouldn't be able to cope with there being passenger doors on both ends of the loco though!

 

[aleggatta]

Unfortunately it will not work, the front DT would only control that set and the loco but not the set behind it.

I’m involved in this project so know that it’s technically not possible, but still, just imagine...

If you don't mind me asking, what would happen if you doubled the coaching stock up back to back, and put a loco on one of the DT's? Or is it one of those 'we don't know unless we try it' moments...

 

[broadbander]

I caught one set on my dash cam passing through Cheadle Hulme platform 1 just before 14:30 this afternoon:

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If you don't mind me asking, what would happen if you doubled the coaching stock up back to back, and put a loco on one of the DT's? Or is it one of those 'we don't know unless we try it' moments...

For one thing there's no gangway on the end that's normally against the loco, so there wouldn't be the ability to walk from one set to the other.

From my limited understanding of how these things work, the stock could be moved ECS in that set-up but might not be certified for passenger use if the TMS (Train Management System) software isn't set up for such operation. As there were no plans to operate that way there'd be no need to put it in the software.

 

[sjpowermac]

Where is your sense of adventure?

Several colleagues and I are desperate to see a 68 sandwiched between two MkVa sets... imagine that.

Haha! You make a good suggestion
Surely though a real sense of adventure would be a Class 55 topping the train

Anyhow, congratulations to all involved with the first week of running, I’ve greatly enjoyed my journeys.

 

[sjpowermac]

I know that the Dutch railways NS used to do it with Class 1600/1700 electric locomotives push & pull in various formations.

You could have....

Loco-Coaches-Coaches Loco.
Loco-Coaches-Loco-Coaches.
Coaches-Loco-Loco-Coaches.

All with driving trailers.

I also remember years ago seeing a German DB railways diesel Cass 218 in the middle of six coaches, 3 either side of the loco Driving trailer each end.

Those sound like interesting set-ups! I wonder though if the stock concerned is pre-‘computer with everything’ era?

 

[EE Andy b1]

Those sound like interesting set-ups! I wonder though if the stock concerned is pre-‘computer with everything’ era?

Probably.

 

[ash39]

Any chance the mods can delete/prune the last couple of pages of this thread? Far too much fantasist garbage posted.

 

[NewSt]

My ride on the set today:

 

[jopsuk]

As far as I know some Belgian LHCS sets are able to work in multiple and divide en-route, much like multiple units often do. Obviously platform lengths would limit the viability of such operation for TPE.

Those Belgian trains can be huge- 25m double deck carriages, sets of 5+loco. So two coupled is ten carriages and two locos.

 

[37057]

Does this come in English (for us non-techie guys)?

They don't like to be disturbed too often and then they'll soon fill up with rain water!

 

[The Northern Star]

Any chance the mods can delete/prune the last couple of pages of this thread? Far too much fantasist garbage posted.

What's the garbage? It's staff having a laugh...

 

[sjpowermac]

Nova 3 in passenger service

Listed below are workings from the first week. Any corrections please let me know and I’ll update, I thought it would be good to have a summary of what’s happened and been a very enjoyable week


Saturday 24.08.2019
68027 plus TP09 (loco ‘Liverpool’ end)
5F48/1F48/1E25/1F62/1E39/1F76

1F76 terminated at Manchester Victoria and formed 5F76 19:58 Manchester Vic to Longsight.


Sunday 25.08.2019
68027 plus TP09 (loco ‘Scarborough’ end)
5E29/1E29/1F66/1E43/1F80/5H93

Monday 26.08.2019
68027 plus TP09 (loco ‘Liverpool’ end)
5F48/1E48/1E25/1F62

1F62 terminated at Manchester Victoria and formed 5H88 12:56 to Longsight

Tuesday 27.08.2019
68027 plus TP09 (loco ‘Scarborough’ end)
5F62 12:02 Longsight-Liverpool LS
1F62/1E39/1F76/1J53/5T54

Wednesday 28.08.2019
68026 plus TP11 (loco ‘Liverpool’ end)
5F62 11:55 Longsight-Manchester Victoria

1F62 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool LS/1E39/1F76/1J53/5T54

Thursday 29.08.2019
68027 plus TP09 (loco ‘Scarborough’ end)
5F48/1F48/1E25/1F62/1E39 (diverted via-Calder Valley and terminated at York)
1F76 (started at York).
1J53/5T54

Friday 30.08.2019
68026 plus TP11 (loco ‘Liverpool’ end)
5F48/1F48/1E25/1F62/1E39/1F76/1J53/5T54

Selected days Mon-Sat
5F48 04:54 Longsight-Manchester Vic
1F48 05:55 Manchester Vic-Liverpool LS
1E25 06:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F62 10:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E39 13:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F76 17:44 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1J53 20:56 Liverpool LS-Stalybridge
5T54 Stalybridge-Longsight


Selected Sundays
5E29 Longsight-Liverpool LS
1E29 08:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F66 12:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E43 15:52 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F80 19:44 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
5H93 22:52 Liverpool LS-Longsight

For anyone still reading, pic below of 68026 at York with Wednesday’s 1E39.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know it's a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but would a 68 actually be able to supply ETS out both ends if such a setup ever happened?

As far as I know some Belgian LHCS sets are able to work in multiple and divide en-route, much like multiple units often do. Obviously platform lengths would limit the viability of such operation for TPE.

It's also Swiss practice to whack together loco+stock sets as if they were EMUs.

 

[D6700]

Those sound like interesting set-ups! I wonder though if the stock concerned is pre-‘computer with everything’ era?

Austrian Railjets are modern permanently coupled push-pull trains, very similar in concept to TPE's Nova 3.
Railjets regularly run as double sets:
Loco + 7 Coaches + Loco + 7 Coaches
https://www.flickr.com/photos/west_railway/15961052703/

Railjets are good for 230 kph (143 mph) in passenger service, where track allows.

I expect they occasionally also run as:
Loco + 7 Coaches + 7 Coaches + Loco
and
7 Coaches + Loco + Loco +7 Coaches

Going back to older, less computerised setups, but with ETH being provided from both ends of the loco, here's one from my travels on the Swiss RhB network - a push-pull set being propelled, but where some extra coaches had been added to the rear. At the end of the journey, the extra coaches would need to be shunted off, or the main train run around them!

 

[simple simon]

I think what some people have proposed is similar to this in Zuerich, Switzerland where push-pull commuter trains are run in multiple - with the TPE trains this could be useful at times of extreme demand but would only be realistically possible if the train driver could control the brakes throughout the train. Controlling both locomotives would be desirable too, but previous messages suggest that this is not a possible with these trains.

The Swiss also do things like run single and double deck carriages in the same train - which admittedly is very unlikely to happen here in the UK!

Alas, something that some Swiss trains have but the new TPE trains (indeed, British trains in general) do not have are childrens play areas actually inside the train (this explains the cartoon style animal characters on the side of the Swiss double deck train).

The play area (climbing frames and more) is on the upper deck whilst the fully accessible lower deck includes a space without seats for prambs / pushchairs / strollers / buggies and bikes.

 

[Ben Bow]

Nova 3 in passenger service

Listed below are workings from the first week. Any corrections please let me know and I’ll update, I thought it would be good to have a summary of what’s happened and been a very enjoyable week


Saturday 24.08.2019
68026 plus TP09
5F48/1F48/1E25/1F62/1E39/1F76

1F76 terminated at Manchester Victoria and formed 5F76 19:58 Manchester Vic to Longsight.


Sunday 25.08.2019
68027 plus TP09
5E29/1E29/1F66/1E43/1F80/5H93

Monday 26.08.2019
68027 plus TP09
5F48/1E48/1E25/1F62

1F62 terminated at Manchester Victoria and formed 5H88 12:56 to Longsight

Tuesday 27.08.2019
68027 plus TP09
5F62 12:02 Longsight-Liverpool LS
1F62/1E39/1F76/1J53/5T54

Wednesday 28.08.2019
68026 plus TP11
5F62 11:55 Longsight-Manchester Victoria

1F62 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool LS/1E39/1F76/1J53/5T54

Thursday 29.08.2019
68027 plus TP09
5F48/1F48/1E25/1F62/1E39 (diverted via-Calder Valley and terminated at York)
1F76 (started at York).
1J53/5T54

Friday 30.08.2019
68027 plus TP09
5F48/1F48/1E25/1F62/1E39/1F76/1J53/5T54

Selected days Mon-Sat
5F48 04:54 Longsight-Manchester Vic
1F48 05:55 Manchester Vic-Liverpool LS
1E25 06:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F62 10:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E39 13:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F76 17:44 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1J53 20:56 Liverpool LS-Stalybridge
5T54 Stalybridge-Longsight


Selected Sundays
5E29 Longsight-Liverpool LS
1E29 08:56 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F66 12:41 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
1E43 15:52 Liverpool LS-Scarborough
1F80 19:44 Scarborough-Liverpool LS
5H93 22:52 Liverpool LS-Longsight

For anyone still reading, pic below of 68026 at York with Wednesday’s 1E39.
View attachment 68004

Thank you for the summary. The first day (24.08) was 68027, not 68026.

 

[GrimShady]

These do look absolutely marvelous. Pity we don't have any in Scotland. They would make wonderful scenic trains.

 

[BMIFlyer]

68027 and set 9 planned to run today now, on the usual diagram.

 

[sjpowermac]

Thank you for the summary. The first day (24.08) was 68027, not 68026.

Thank you, and updated.

I think it’s fair to say that the introduction has been substantially more than the ‘ad hoc’ runs that were mooted!