TPE Mark 5A coaching stock progress

[EE Andy b1]

With ROG (Rail Operations) sending a Class 47 to the closed Aluminium plant near Holyhead the other week, i presume that rolling stock will be delivered and retrieved eventually by rail for storage there, whether that's just TPE Mk5s and perhaps 397s or other CAF built stock, time will tell.

Did i not read somewhere that about 54 miles worth of rail storage will be required for all rolling stock coming off lease over the next few years.
So presumable storage for new stock required as well.

North Norfolk Heritage Railway are doing a deal with Anglia to store new and off lease units.

 

[edwin_m]

1. TPE would need to buy in expertise to lay track on a rented site, buy the track, and then remove and dispose of it later.
2. It may well be that the route clearance to Holyhead is in the pipeline and subsequent deliveries / extraction can be done by road.

I would be expecting (2), given that the stock is of similar dimensions to existing stock that runs to Holyhead. If the plan was only ever to move stock to and from the site by road then I'm still unconvinced that it wouldn't be better just to store it on a more convenient non-rail site. I was thinking more "get some old track panels and plonk them down" rather than "lay new track with ballast and stuff".

 

[Crossforth]

Mk5A: Liverpool, Manchester, Man Airport, York, Scarborough.

397: Liverpool, Preston, Man Airport, Glasgow

802: Man Airport, Manchester, York, Newcastle

185: Sheffield, Hull, Cleethorpes, Manchester.

That is the first solid bit of info I’ve seen. As a guard, is the above in relation to drivers, guards or both?

 

[158820]

There is a path in the system for a light another light loco from Leicester to Holyhead on Thursday.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91357/2018/07/26/advanced

 

[gimmea50anyday]

That is the first solid bit of info I’ve seen. As a guard, is the above in relation to drivers, guards or both?

Both I'd imagine Crossforth. BMI Flyer is a little bit more up the food chain than you and I mate! XD

There's still much talk in how much and what route knowledge we will retain once the new fleets roll in to service.

 

[dilbertphil]

Liverpool drivers are not signing class 68's, not sure about their conductors. Manchester drivers training is just restarting now, no firm plan yet for when York and Scarborough drivers will get trained. Also Liverpool drivers will not be signing 397's either, Preston depot will be picking up the Scottish work from Liverpool when it starts up. Liverpool drivers have been told they are 185 only for the foreseeable future.

 

[whhistle]

There is a path in the system for a light another light loco from Leicester to Holyhead on Thursday.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91357/2018/07/26/advanced

Not sure if it's related but there was a loco move to Edge Hill today (Wednesday):
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R41169/2018/07/25/advanced

 

[TBSchenker]

Mk5A: Liverpool, Manchester, Man Airport, York, Scarborough.

397: Liverpool, Preston, Man Airport, Glasgow

802: Man Airport, Manchester, York, Newcastle

185: Sheffield, Hull, Cleethorpes, Manchester.

Manchester Picc drivers will also sign 397s, although it seems just for depot moves and Airport-Preston

Won’t the new Glasgow depot for drivers also sign 802s for the East Coast services? As the FL drivers do now when 185s are diverted that way.

 

[BMIFlyer]

That is the first solid bit of info I’ve seen. As a guard, is the above in relation to drivers, guards or both?

I should have mentioned that it was a guards list, but that was the most recent plan. It will change again primarily due to the WCML trains from Liverpool now being delayed (DFT request).

Drivers are different due to link specific work.

It is still being decided who will be going where from December especially on the WCML (plan is that there will be crew changes at Airport and Preston only, so no more swapping over at Carlisle).

There should be a specific traction training brief issued in due course once we figure out when the Mk5’s will begin use with passengers and who will work the 397’s to/from where.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Manchester Picc drivers will also sign 397s, although it seems just for depot moves and Airport-Preston

Won’t the new Glasgow depot for drivers also sign 802s for the East Coast services? As the FL drivers do now when 185s are diverted that way.

Not heard anything about the 802 drivers being from anywhere except York and Newcastle - yet.

The guards will either be from Glasgow or Newcastle for the Edinburgh 802 work.

 

[BeHereNow]

I should have mentioned that it was a guards list, but that was the most recent plan. It will change again primarily due to the WCML trains from Liverpool now being delayed (DFT request).

Drivers are different due to link specific work.

It is still being decided who will be going where from December especially on the WCML (plan is that there will be crew changes at Airport and Preston only, so no more swapping over at Carlisle).

There should be a specific traction training brief issued in due course once we figure out when the Mk5’s will begin use with passengers and who will work the 397’s to/from where.

Has training started on the 68s yet?

 

[BMIFlyer]

Has training started on the 68s yet?

A select number of driver instructors and drivers at Manchester Picc plus nearly all the airport guards, are trained on class 68’s.

(Yes guards need training because if the driver is incapacitated due to an accident / fire then the guard will need to secure the loco / activate fire bottles, etc).


There is no Mk5A carriages training manual yet so until that is written then no training will begin on that stock for guards.

 

[PennineSuperb]

There is no Mk5A carriages training manual yet so until that is written then no training will begin on that stock for guards.

CAF are contractually obliged to provide traction training/information on the MK5a. TPE were however unimpressed with this and when I reviewed it last year it was far from being a reasonable document. CAF have now subcontracted a UK based firm to assist with the writing & validation.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

TPE had a perfectly decent conductor competence manager who could have been contracted. He did a decent job of the Mk3 training manuals after all....

 

[158820]

Not sure if it's related but there was a loco move to Edge Hill today (Wednesday):
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R41169/2018/07/25/advanced

Reported on another thread it was a 37 visiting for coupler tests for the new caf emu/dmus which have arrived by road.

 

[158820]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91358/2018/07/27/advanced

Path now in to bring the marks 5s from Holyhead to Longsight on Friday

 

[BMIFlyer]

Two further class 68's now in the TPE colours.

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Two further class 68's now in the TPE colours.

Stunning, let us all know of the numbers as soon as you catch wind of it

 

[joshy.fre_2003]

Two further class 68's now in the TPE colours.

Heard 029 is one of them

 

[modernrail]

A question if I may. Why are we going for a purely diesel loco rather than a bi-mode? Are the particular routes these trains are planned for the ones with no real length of wire (unless and until Grayling's vague statements stop and some sort of certainty on plans for further electrification emerges)? How difficult would it be to switch to a bi-mode loco from a technical view point?

As an aside - I can testify that the network on the continent is struggling with the heat as well as the UK, being currently stuck in Hamburg overnight rather than having reached Copenhagen, following a pretty unpleasant journey on an German intercity train that arrived in Hamburg 3 hours late and with the AC in many carriages having failed. However, I will say that water was handed out, the train was re-routed around a trackside fire fairly quickly and I am staying in a hotel arranged by and paid for by DB without any debate from their side.

As a further aside - might it be interesting to compare line speeds between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds with the lowest line speeds between other major cities in Europe? My instinct is that they will come out comparatively very low, even when compared with classic rather than high speed lines. There were few sections on our diversion through Germany yesterday where we were running under 120km per hour and it was one of the older IC trains and back-street lines for the diversion.

 

[James James]

A question if I may. Why are we going for a purely diesel loco rather than a bi-mode? Are the particular routes these trains are planned for the ones with no real length of wire (unless and until Grayling's vague statements stop and some sort of certainty on plans for further electrification emerges)? How difficult would it be to switch to a bi-mode loco from a technical view point?

As an aside - I can testify that the network on the continent is struggling with the heat as well as the UK, being currently stuck in Hamburg overnight rather than having reached Copenhagen, following a pretty unpleasant journey on an German intercity train that arrived in Hamburg 3 hours late and with the AC in many carriages having failed. However, I will say that water was handed out, the train was re-routed around a trackside fire fairly quickly and I am staying in a hotel arranged by and paid for by DB without any debate from their side.

As a further aside - might it be interesting to compare line speeds between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds with the lowest line speeds between other major cities in Europe? My instinct is that they will come out comparatively very low, even when compared with classic rather than high speed lines. There were few sections on our diversion through Germany yesterday where we were running under 120km per hour and it was one of the older IC trains and back-street lines for the diversion.

There's only one bimode loco in the UK, the 88. It can only provide less than 1 MW of power on diesel (4MW on electric). By comparison the 68 is 3 MW, hence the 88 is probably completely unsuitable on diesel-mode except for short or slow stretches.

I don't really know all that much about linespeeds on the continent, there's plenty of 160-200km/h around where I live, but my main commuting line is 100km/h for large stretches, admittedly due to windy single-track sections around some hilly tunnels (which will be replaced by a new double-track faster tunnel in about 10 years).

 

[CHAPS2034]

From a report elsewhere, 68029 in TPE colours operated this move this morning from Crewe to Manchester International Depot

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R02464/2018/07/27/advanced

Can't see any other moves from here for today on RTT

CW

 

[Geeves]

That is correct its outside the depot now. 68029.

 

[Greybeard33]

From a report elsewhere, 68029 in TPE colours operated this move this morning from Crewe to Manchester International Depot

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R02464/2018/07/27/advanced

Can't see any other moves from here for today on RTT

CW

This move is now in progress (32L at Rhyl, but predicted to recover the delay):

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K91358/2018/07/27/advanced

Path now in to bring the marks 5s from Holyhead to Longsight on Friday

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Watched it go through Chester, class 47s front and back, with half a dozen vans in tow behind the Mk5 rake.
I got the impression the seat alignment with windows was not all that great in some vehicles.
Most of the passengers on the station were more interested in ATW taking 37 minutes trying to couple a 158 and a 150 for the 1136 to Birmingham on P2.

 

[BMIFlyer]

Watched it go through Chester, class 47s front and back, with half a dozen vans in tow behind the Mk5 rake.
I got the impression the seat alignment with windows was not all that great in some vehicles.
Most of the passengers on the station were more interested in ATW taking 37 minutes trying to couple a 158 and a 150 for the 1136 to Birmingham on P2.

Class 57 leading

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Class 57 leading

Somehow, it navigated Crewe without reversal!

 

[Erniescooper]

Heard 029 is one of them

 

[EE Andy b1]

I don't know how well the service with the MK5s will run in the future and whether passengers will be happy travelling on them, hopefully they will!
But they sure do look good.

 

[Greybeard33]

Somehow, it navigated Crewe without reversal!

RTT shows the planned route from Crewe was to turn on to the Nantwich lines to Gresty Lane, then reverse into the Basford Hall yard, then out forwards on to the Independent lines through Sydney Bridge to Sandbach. Thereby turning round to keep 57303 leading.