TPE Nova 1 Class 802/2 Progress

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Domh245

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Seeing as all 397s have been accepted, I would have hoped that there are enough units to operate the WCML services. 185s north of Preson (and covering for them!) should be a thing of the past, particularly short term at least whilst the service is so thinned out!
 

61653 HTAFC

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Seeing as all 397s have been accepted, I would have hoped that there are enough units to operate the WCML services. 185s north of Preson (and covering for them!) should be a thing of the past, particularly short term at least whilst the service is so thinned out!
Unless anything has to run via Atherton or the Wigan-Bolton line due to diversions... then you need a 185 or an 802 (or drivers will have to stick their legs out, Fred Flintstone style!)
 

JonathanH

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Unless anything has to run via Atherton or the Wigan-Bolton line due to diversions... then you need a 185 or an 802 (or drivers will have to stick their legs out, Fred Flintstone style!)
Do TPE drivers still sign either route? With both the Chorley and Parkside routes now available, it seems unlikely they would ever need to retain these routes.
 

Domh245

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There's also the question of getting the stock to run those diversions - if it was part of the plan to use them, they'd have got bi-modes surely? You start running those diversions with 802s or 185s and somebody else has to loose out
 

Energy

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There's also the question of getting the stock to run those diversions - if it was part of the plan to use them, they'd have got bi-modes surely? You start running those diversions with 802s or 185s and somebody else has to loose out
I'm fairly sure Hitachi couldn't build enough bimodes for all of TPE, which is why some routes got mk5s and 397s otherwise they probably would have got bimodes.
 

Domh245

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It was a case of Hitachi not being able to build enough soon enough, otherwise they probably would have gone for an all 802 fleet if they could have rather than the Mk5s and 397s. But the point still stands - they clearly weren't expecting to do any non-electrified diversions on the WCML if they'd ordered pure EMUs for it
 
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The times are now public so can post in here... 5M99 and 5S88 will be running tomorrow (30th) to do gauge testing, along the route for the 802s. This is because Network Rail want all units to be able to run at 125mph on the non tilt sections. Meaning that 185s won't be able to operate North of Oxenholme (I think?). The plan will be to only use a 802 if a 397 isn't available for traffic. If someone can go out (for the return trip especially), I'd appreciate it!

5M99: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N23185/2020-04-30/detailed
5S88: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N23186/2020-04-30/detailed
 

tpjm

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So to drown out the mindless wibble before this thread gets out of control with speculation:

“Network Rail” don’t want anything.

TPE North West diagrams are being retimed to take advantage of the better performance of Class 397, this means that Class 185 is no longer able to deputise.

There are ample Class 397s to run the service as well as having units stopped for maintenance.

This run is to verify signal sighting, stopping positions, door patterns and wheelchair ramps to enable Class 802 to step up should a 397 be out of action for a long period of time (i.e. like the 350 that hit the horses). Glasgow crews already sign Class 802 for the ECML so it’s a logic next step in building in service resilience.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Is the remaining few hundred yards of 60mph at Astley simply because of the precarious nature of the level crossing with car drivers opening and closing the road* gates themselves?
*road might be a stretch, it is essentially a busy farm track!
It's never been entirely clear what is forcing the continuing very short 60mph PSR at Astley.
It's either to do with the level crossing controls and mode of working, or the fragile nature of the formation on the Moss at that particular point.
Or possibly both.
Astley and Eccles boxes seem have escaped the general upgrade of the route to being controlled by Manchester ROC or Warrington/Piccadilly PSBs.

Is that so the Avanti sets on order can "hit the ground running" as the saying goes? If so that's one upside of franchises being suspended!
The new Avanti AT300s reportedly won't run north of Preston.
They are for the off-wire services (Chester/Holyhead/Shrewsbury).
 

Tim_UK

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This run is to verify signal sighting, stopping positions, door patterns and wheelchair ramps to enable Class 802 to step up should a 397 be out of action for a long period of time (i.e. like the 350 that hit the horses). Glasgow crews already sign Class 802 for the ECML so it’s a logic next step in building in service resilience.
Sounds really cool. And operational flexibility is always a good thing. Well done to all involved.
 

bnsf734

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It's never been entirely clear what is forcing the continuing very short 60mph PSR at Astley.
It's either to do with the level crossing controls and mode of working, or the fragile nature of the formation on the Moss at that particular point.
Or possibly both.
Astley and Eccles boxes seem have escaped the general upgrade of the route to being controlled by Manchester ROC or Warrington/Piccadilly PSBs.



The new Avanti AT300s reportedly won't run north of Preston.
They are for the off-wire services (Chester/Holyhead/Shrewsbury).
I was under the impression that the new Avanti AT300s were replacing the 221 units. Some of these run/ran daily on Euston to Glasgow/Edinburgh services, so some AT300s will surely need to run north of Preston.
 

JonathanH

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I was under the impression that the new Avanti AT300s were replacing the 221 units. Some of these run/ran daily on Euston to Glasgow/Edinburgh services, so some AT300s will surely need to run north of Preston.
The new units (of which 10 are straight seven-car electrics) displace 390s on some turns from Liverpool and the West Midlands which means that all Scotland trains can be 390s removing use of 221s under the wires) so no Avanti AT300s needed north of Weaver Junction.

On the TPE fleet, given the fleet requirement is 16 802s from a fleet of 19 with one Newcastle turn uncovered, presumably a 185 would need to run on a second Newcastle turn to release a 802 for the West Coast if a 397 were out of service for some time.
 

59CosG95

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The new units (of which 10 are straight seven-car electrics) displace 390s on some turns from Liverpool and the West Midlands which means that all Scotland trains can be 390s removing use of 221s under the wires) so no Avanti AT300s needed north of Weaver Junction.

On the TPE fleet, given the fleet requirement is 16 802s from a fleet of 19 with one Newcastle turn uncovered, presumably a 185 would need to run on a second Newcastle turn to release a 802 for the West Coast if a 397 were out of service for some time.
AIUI, the 7-car electrics are also destined for Blackpool services, so Preston - Lancaster - Carlisle - Scotland will become 390-operated throughout. Of course, these 802 runs could increase flexibility for Avantil should they so wish...
 

ainsworth74

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We're getting well off-topic here as this thread is about the TPE 802s not Avanti's order of AT300s and future rolling stock provision. We have dedicated threads for those wishing to read more about Avanti's plans. Therefore please ensure that we leave it there and get back to matters relating to TPE.

Thanks!
 

JonathanH

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The times are now public so can post in here... 5M99 and 5S88 will be running tomorrow (30th) to do gauge testing, along the route for the 802s. This is because Network Rail want all units to be able to run at 125mph on the non tilt sections. Meaning that 185s won't be able to operate North of Oxenholme (I think?). The plan will be to only use a 802 if a 397 isn't available for traffic. If someone can go out (for the return trip especially), I'd appreciate it!

5M99: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N23185/2020-04-30/detailed
5S88: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N23186/2020-04-30/detailed
Doesn't look like it is running.
 

3973EXL

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3973EXL

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STP schedules for 07/05
5X98 Eastleigh - Acton 5Q98 Acton- Heaton
Just departed Eastleigh Depot.
 

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