Train fails to stop at Pilning

[TheEdge]

Cockpit layout and training are the responsibility of humans. In those cases they may be either primary or contributory factors. Still human error.

Close Pilning, remove the risk of failing to call at a station that no one uses for the sake of paper work.

 

[DarloRich]

Close Pilning, remove the risk of failing to call at a station that no one uses for the sake of paper work.

But what if the form was badly laid out...
.......

 

[dk1]

Hope both drivers involved are ok & that they aren't in too much bother. Sadly it goes on the record either way. Only another in this grade knows how easily it can happen at such station calls.

 

[theageofthetra]

Ultimately there is just the one person with 'questions to answer'. The Instructor is in charge of the train and will/should take full responsibility.

Would there be a guard on that service?- wouldn't they notice it was going too fast to stop at a booked station?

 

[dk1]

Would there be a guard on that service?- wouldn't they notice it was going too fast to stop at a booked station?

If you have a half decent guard they keep reminding you as I do for them if stopping at a train that requires them to de-select doors. If busy doing revenue duties or nowadays on their phone in the back cab they probably didn't realise exactly where they where.

 

[adrock1976]

If you have a half decent guard they keep reminding you as I do for them if stopping at a train that requires them to de-select doors. If busy doing revenue duties or nowadays on their phone in the back cab they probably didn't realise exactly where they where.

I would have thought that a very big clue would be the duration of the darkness of being in the Severn Tunnel, with the approach to Pilning being in daylight soon after emerging from the tunnel.

 

[dk1]

I would have thought that a very big clue would be the duration of the darkness of being in the Severn Tunnel, with the approach to Pilning being in daylight soon after emerging from the tunnel.

Even that doesn't help because habit especially after that tunnel may be to accelerate as that's what happens 99% of the time. Train driving is so repetitive most of the time failure to call at a station with such a sparse service is an easy trap to fall into as is a calling at a station you are not supposed to when on almost every you do.

 

[Panupreset]

You see being a train driver or a pilot or a doctor or nurse, you don't get a second go at getting something correct.

Recently completed a house purchase. The amount of things the solicitor got incorrect that I had to pull them up on...But it's ok. They can resend the land registry form with the correct address on it. They can send a second email with the correct reference I need to make when we pay the deposit and stamp duty monies after I spotted they had told me to pay with someone else's client reference.

There is no 'backspace' button in the cab.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Would there be a guard on that service?- wouldn't they notice it was going too fast to stop at a booked station?

1) Yes
2) Possibly - but they wouldn't know if they have sufficient distance or time to stop the service. If they noticed it was going too fast to stop, whta can they do? It's going too fast to stop, a fail to call is deemed preferable to a late emergency brake and an overshoot.

 

[Gathursty]

Is there a board at stations before and after Pilning which ask the train driver 'Are you stopping at Pilning?'

If not, simple solution there. I recall there was a thread on are you stopping at Culham a couple of years ago.

 

[theageofthetra]

On a very unusual stopping pattern like this one why doesn't the driver and guards schedule have the station name printed in red and in a larger typeface?

 

[dk1]

On a very unusual stopping pattern like this one why doesn't the driver and guards schedule have the station name printed in red and in a larger typeface?

That's why we are given highlighters.

 

[bnm]

Even that doesn't help because habit especially after that tunnel may be to accelerate as that's what happens 99% of the time. Train driving is so repetitive most of the time failure to call at a station with such a sparse service is an easy trap to fall into as is a calling at a station you are not supposed to when on almost every you do.

You would expect a Driver Instructor to be a bit more on the ball though.

 

[LowLevel]

Even that doesn't help because habit especially after that tunnel may be to accelerate as that's what happens 99% of the time. Train driving is so repetitive most of the time failure to call at a station with such a sparse service is an easy trap to fall into as is a calling at a station you are not supposed to when on almost every you do.

One of our 'favourite' fails to call was Edale though it's not happened for a bit. Only 1 train each way per day for us, on the up at night you're accelerating uphill through Cowburn Tunnel, green on the distant, gradient drops down, wide open to get to 90 mph and.... whoops! I always announce it just before we leave the tunnel which is well early if they've not cut power already.

 

[theageofthetra]

That's why we are given highlighters.

We don't have that luxury.

 

[Edders23]

Ultimately there is just the one person with 'questions to answer'. The Instructor is in charge of the train and will/should take full responsibility.

I remember once talking to a driver who missed a stop he got suspended and only kept his job after his doctor diagnosed sleep apnoea which was accepted as mitigation. This is treated as serious offence by the TOC's and I'm sure someone will have a lot of explaining to do

 

[1e10]

We don't have that luxury.

Why? They're available in most supermarkets.

 

[NickBucks]

Given that the Pilning Challenge ( link above ) appears to be aimed at rail enthusiasts you would have thought that they would appreciate that such issues do arise from time to time.

 

[Dieseldriver]

You would expect a Driver Instructor to be a bit more on the ball though.

Not really. A fail to call isn't an indicator that they're bad at their job. DIs are just as human when they're instructing as when they're driving.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I remember once talking to a driver who missed a stop he got suspended and only kept his job after his doctor diagnosed sleep apnoea which was accepted as mitigation. This is treated as serious offence by the TOC's and I'm sure someone will have a lot of explaining to do

There's not generally 'a lot of explaining to do' after an incident such as this. It's discussed, investigated and an action plan drawn up for the Driver. 99% of the time the incident is caused by a momentary lapse sometimes caused by a distraction of some kind.
It definitely isn't considered a 'serious offence' compared to the myriad of actually dangerous incidents a Driver could have. I would suggest that your Train Driver friend wasn't telling the whole truth as they wouldn't be suspended for an isolated incident such as a fail to call.

 

[33017]

I remember once talking to a driver who missed a stop he got suspended and only kept his job after his doctor diagnosed sleep apnoea which was accepted as mitigation. This is treated as serious offence by the TOC's and I'm sure someone will have a lot of explaining to do

He must have had quite a bit else on his record or been newly qualified.

 

[dk1]

Why? They're available in most supermarkets.

Haha but this is the railway not Ryanair. We get everything provided & get wrapped in cotton wool most of the time. We even recently got a £300 bonus to accept tablets as part of our job. Mr O'Leary would have kittens.

 

[dk1]

Haha but this is the railway not Ryanair. We get everything provided & get wrapped in cotton wool most of the time. We even recently got a £300 bonus to accept tablets as part of our job. Mr O'Leary would have kittens.

We don't have that luxury.

Crikey! We get them 3-colour triangle ones. One of the driver managers left about 50 on the messroom pool table the other day so we could all help ourselves.

 

[Johncleesefan]

Pool table? Now you’re just rubbing it in

 

[infobleep]

Driver under instruction, so two people with questions to answer.

No great shakes though. There'll be another train along next week!

Could a passenger ask if they would be allowed to board a later train or would the rail company deem a week to long?

This industry is more than aware of the potential consequences of human error thank you. Even 'minor' incidents such as a fail to call are dealt with and treated seriously. I've failed to call and was absolutely gutted, we all try our absolute hardest to avoid such incidents but we are not infallible.
These incidents are fully investigated, Driver is interviewed (in some cases taken off driving) and moved into a higher risk category for monitoring. It goes onto a Drivers record which is permanent.
If I have a fail to call tomorrow, I will have to declare it for the rest of my career for any other companies I apply to work for.

That seems a bit harsh for me, for one have it on their record for the rest of their career.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Could a passenger ask if they would be allowed to board a later train or would the rail company deem a week to long?



That seems a bit harsh for me, for one have it on their record for the rest of their career.

Its one of the drawbacks of Train Driving. Its well paid and has good benefits but we are expected to perform flawlessly for that (and rightly so although sometimes it does feel harsh). The liability and responsibility comes with the role and its gutting to have even a minor incident.

 

[Dhassell]

The way I see it from Saturday, the incident occurred after some serious delays, so the 1400 off Cardiff was canceled, and I presume the crew/unit was transferred over to the 1500, hence their printed diagrams was probably for the 1400 and not 1500, hence them emitting Pilning accidentally. Props to GWR, once told about the issue, Patchway staff soon arranged a taxi to pick up the 3 passengers (2 enthusiasts, and 1 actual passenger) from Pilning, no taxi was required from Patchway to Pilning as no one was requiring to get off.

 

[1e10]

Haha but this is the railway not Ryanair. We get everything provided & get wrapped in cotton wool most of the time. We even recently got a £300 bonus to accept tablets as part of our job. Mr O'Leary would have kittens.

The travelling public would have kittens. £300 to use a tablet? That’s taking the..

 

[142Pilot]

The travelling public would have kittens. £300 to use a tablet? That’s taking the..

Why?

It's a productivity element of the role. Why should they agree to new methods of working without payment?

 

[tsr]

On a very unusual stopping pattern like this one why doesn't the driver and guards schedule have the station name printed in red and in a larger typeface?

Red (or generally any bright colour) usually means an amendment to the diagram, against the normal one.

If Pilning was an extra stop compared to the norm, it would probably be printed in colour (where colour printers are used, of course, bearing in mind many schedule cards are printed on laser printers which might just manage grayscale).

Why?

It's a productivity element of the role. Why should they agree to new methods of working without payment?

Would you expect an extra payment to drive an electric train instead of a diesel train?

Why should a tablet superseding paper be any different?