Train v National Express Coach v Plane

[Bungle965]

X90 is the competing service run by the Oxford Bus Company (Go-Ahead), whilst the Oxford Tube is Stagecoach's offering.

The Oxford Tube is all double decker, the X90 has recently-ish started running some services with double decker coaches which are shared with their Oxford to Heathrow/Gatwick "airline" services.

Yes Plaxton Elite interdeck. Not really a double decker as there are no seats on the lower half unlike on the Astromegas.
Sam

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Why did NX do away with most of their double-deckers? The only reason that I can think of is the much reduced luggage capacity of a double-decker coach

 

[BestWestern]

Why did NX do away with most of their double-deckers? The only reason that I can think of is the much reduced luggage capacity of a double-decker coach

It was in the aftermath of the motorway accident involving a Neoplan Skyliner, operated by Trathens I think, overturning with loss of life. Whilst the incident was entirely down to poor driving and in no way attributed to the vehicle itself, there was a typically thick tabloid response suggesting that double decker coaches were suddenly deathtraps - presumably the idiotic 'journalists' responsible for such tripe either failed to make the link between double decker coaches and the thousands of double decker buses on the roads, or they perhaps had some reason to think that the bus variations were inherently safer. Anyhow, in light of the bad publicity, NatEx opted shortly afterwards to cease 'decker operation. They have, in the past few months, placed into service a new double decker variation of the Levante design, and stated that this will be the new standard wherever such capacity is needed, following on from the previous development of the tri-axle single deckers.

 

[pitdiver]

Dekkers are now running on the VCS to Luton Airport NX service. As mentioned the Double Deck version of the Levante. In my opinion road too luxurious for an Airport service. Going to get knocked about too much with luggage.

 

[Bungle965]

Dekkers are now running on the VCS to Luton Airport NX service. As mentioned the Double Deck version of the Levante. In my opinion road too luxurious for an Airport service. Going to get knocked about too much with luggage.

Edwards had one as well, they used it on the London-Cardiff route. I'm not sure if they have it anymore however.
Sam

 

[DarloRich]

I guess you don't cycle, because if you did you would notice that the vast majority of users of the Redways are using very cheap bikes, either Halfords cheapo specials or ageing second hand racing bikes, and they are using them to commute often very long distances to low paid jobs like the many warehouses around MK. They are a firm competition for the bus, as cycling is direct and feels very safe on the fully segregated Redway system, and buses are slow, dirty and unpunctual.

The way bikes are used in MK is, give or take the hills which reduce the number of older and less fit cyclists, very Dutch indeed.

The two grand road bikes are generally to be found cycling round the track at the Bowl or on a car rack heading out to a car park on the edge of the city for a ride on much more enjoyable country lanes.

I ride for pleasure up and down the canal so the only item of specialist equipment I own is a helmet and a decent bike lock. By bike is a decent model that came via a work deduction scheme.

However there are lots of people who cycle to work. They have (mainly) decent bikes and all the proper kit. It isnt cheap. That's before you speak to the serious cyclists who do proper mileage.

You dont need to go crazy for a decent cycle to get you a few miles to and from work and even if you cant outlay around £300- £400 for one then you can always do the cycle to work scheme https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/get-a-bike/how-it-works and save a little bit of money on yoru tax too

that's exactly what i did

 

[Bletchleyite]

However there are lots of people who cycle to work. They have (mainly) decent bikes and all the proper kit. It isnt cheap. That's before you speak to the serious cyclists who do proper mileage.

Go and have a ride around the Redways in the vicinity of one of the large warehouse developments (Kingston, Tongwell, the new one by J13 etc) and you will see that things are rather different. The norm is very much old boneshakers and Halfords £80 specials, and usually no helmets or lights.

For these people, cycling is a simple, cheap and practical mode of transport. It's all very Dutch.

 

[DarloRich]

Go and have a ride around the Redways in the vicinity of one of the large warehouse developments (Kingston, Tongwell, the new one by J13 etc) and you will see that things are rather different. The norm is very much old boneshakers and Halfords £80 specials, and usually no helmets or lights.

For these people, cycling is a simple, cheap and practical mode of transport. It's all very Dutch.

I am not disagreeing with you just that the people I know who cycle seem to have all the kit from clothes to panniers to lighting systems to special seats. It seems to have replaced golf as a thing to do, especially for men.

PS you need to buy a helmet and lights!

 

[GatwickDepress]

I am not disagreeing with you just that the people I know who cycle seem to have all the kit from clothes to panniers to lighting systems to special seats. It seems to have replaced golf as a thing to do, especially for men.

PS you need to buy a helmet and lights!

That matches the trend north of the city as well. Lots of people cycling to the station or city for work with all the associated gubbins - usually very tasteful reflective yellow.

I know the warehouse my partner worked at used to hand out hi-viz vests and bells for their cyclist workers after numerous complaints about them from the public.

 

[DarloRich]

I am going to widen the debate slightly. I flew to and from Scotland this weekend as it was the cheapest way of doing it.

I flew Easy Jet from Luton to Edinburgh and back. It was, i think, an Airbus 319. Fares were £60 each way, flight time about 50 minutes. I used the 99 coach from Milton Keynes on the way out and the shuttle bus to Parkway on the way back.

The flight was full and was very much like a flying bus. The seats were the least comfortable of the three but acceptable, the flight was smooth and the noise level was low. The view was limited as I had an aisle seat and it was dark. Embarking seemed to take for ever but disembarking was so swift that I was on the shuttle bus to the station inside 15 minutes.

The airport at Luton is grotty but under redevelopment while Edinburgh was a nice airport. I am not a regular flyer so haven't a good base to build my views on but it all worked well, the air hostesses were of an acceptable level of attractiveness and attentiveness and I didn't die in an horrific fireball which not being a great flyer that is very important!

thoughts?

 

[EbbwJunction1]

There is now an alternative to rail and coach from South Wales to London, as Flybe have several services each way.

They were originally put on when the Severn Tunnel was closed for the electrification works, but were kept after this ended. I understand that they are quite well used and, with the price starting from £34.99, I'm not surprised.

I wouldn't use them myself, because I'd have to get from Newport to Cardiff Airport by train and / or bus, which is a bit of a pain, but I can see the attraction for people in the Cardiff area. They go to London City Airport, which I think does have quite good communications for onward travel, although I've not actually been there myself.

 

[misterredmist]

I am going to widen the debate slightly. I flew to and from Scotland this weekend as it was the cheapest way of doing it.

I flew Easy Jet from Luton to Edinburgh and back. It was, i think, an Airbus 319. Fares were £60 each way, flight time about 50 minutes. I used the 99 coach from Milton Keynes on the way out and the shuttle bus to Parkway on the way back.

The flight was full and was very much like a flying bus. The seats were the least comfortable of the three but acceptable, the flight was smooth and the noise level was low. The view was limited as I had an aisle seat and it was dark. Embarking seemed to take for ever but disembarking was so swift that I was on the shuttle bus to the station inside 15 minutes.

The airport at Luton is grotty but under redevelopment while Edinburgh was a nice airport. I am not a regular flyer so haven't a good base to build my views on but it all worked well, the air hostesses were of an acceptable level of attractiveness and attentiveness and I didn't die in an horrific fireball which not being a great flyer that is very important!

thoughts?

Well it seems to have done what it said on the tin DR, what , roughly, were your total door to door transit times ?

Yes, Luton Airport is a bit of a mess at the moment but hopefully all the upheaval will be worthwhile. I must confess when I fly abroad from Luton, I book the Lounge to avoid the overcrowding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

PS you need to buy a helmet and lights!

My observation was not reflective (ha!) of what I do. It was more based on what you see around the poorer areas of the city, where the bicycle is an enabler for low-paid work, not a lifestyle choice.

I ride a mid-priced imported Dutch[1] sit-up-and-beg bike which has built-in lights (battery LED these days rather than dynamo, interestingly). I don't wear a helmet, because the Dutch don't and I subscribe to their approach to city utility cycling, so I consider it unnecessary when riding on the Dutch-style segregated Redway system. (If I did serious road or MTB cycling I would wear one, but I'm very much a utility cyclist, not a sport one - my sports are running and climbing).

[1] I'm very tall and this is the best way to get a bike that *actually* fits rather than just having the seat up in the air on a too-small frame which makes the riding position rather uncomfortable.

 

[al78]

PS you need to buy a helmet

No you don't (I wear one, but not because I think it is going to save me if I'm hit by a car). There is no evidence on a country level scale (any country, not just the UK) of a correlation between increasing helmet use and reduction in cycling KSI, therefore it should be left to individuals to choose. Helmets are designed to aid in incidents where the cyclist falls off at speeds up to 12 mph where no other vehicle is involved.

Unfortunately as with a lot of debates, this is yet another where emotion overrides logic, and people have a pathological hatred of changing their beliefs in the face of contradictory evidence. I'm not saying any more on this as it is OT for this forum.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think in retrospect he was referring to the cost. But it isn't significant - you can pick up both from Tesco for well under £20 in total.

 

[DarloRich]

Well it seems to have done what it said on the tin DR, what , roughly, were your total door to door transit times ?

Yes, Luton Airport is a bit of a mess at the moment but hopefully all the upheaval will be worthwhile. I must confess when I fly abroad from Luton, I book the Lounge to avoid the overcrowding.

Door to door was about 3 hours (ish) each way. Had I flown into Glasgow instead of Edinburgh I think it would have been 2 hours 30 each way. I flew Easy Jet with a small cabin bag and checked in on line. There were no queues at security and the scrum at the gate wasn't that bad and the flights roughly on time

I wasn't really aware of lounges so will look into them more

 

[Bletchleyite]

The new lounge at Luton is quite posh. But do book in advance, demand is very high and there can be queues at busy times to get in.

Yes, by and large I like easyJet. It does the job well, and Luton and Edinburgh are indeed reasonable airports.

Crikey, we haven't half gone off-topic here...can we find a way to get boats in as well?

 

[DarloRich]

No you don't (I wear one, but not because I think it is going to save me if I'm hit by a car). There is no evidence on a country level scale (any country, not just the UK) of a correlation between increasing helmet use and reduction in cycling KSI, therefore it should be left to individuals to choose. Helmets are designed to aid in incidents where the cyclist falls off at speeds up to 12 mph where no other vehicle is involved.

Unfortunately as with a lot of debates, this is yet another where emotion overrides logic, and people have a pathological hatred of changing their beliefs in the face of contradictory evidence. I'm not saying any more on this as it is OT for this forum.

You do. A family friend died in a cycling accident. The coroner said he would have lived if he wore a helmet. That will do for me.

 

[DarloRich]

The new lounge at Luton is quite posh. But do book in advance, demand is very high and there can be queues at busy times to get in.

Yes, by and large I like easyJet. It does the job well, and Luton and Edinburgh are indeed reasonable airports.

Crikey, we haven't half gone off-topic here...can we find a way to get boats in as well?

give me a few weeks - I am off to the islands and the IOM later in the year with the new camper van

I think it is interesting to compare different modes of transport against our own railway bias and the expected experiences. I got what i expected with Easy jet but found my admittedly low expectations exceeded by National Express. The train isnt always the best option even if it is our favorite option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it is interesting to compare different modes of transport against our own railway bias and the expected experiences. I got what i expected with Easy jet but found my admittedly low expectations exceeded by National Express. The train isnt always the best option even if it is our favorite option.

I worked in Edinburgh for 4 months last year, commuting weekly, and used both air and train depending on what my plans were for that week. (The easyJet flights to Edinburgh don't require booking all that far in advance to get a reasonable deal). Air was slightly faster door to door (useful if I wasn't able to travel Sunday evening or had something on on the Thursday evening), train provided better comfort (particularly with Weekend First on the way out) and more usable time while travelling (useful if I had some stuff to do on the train).

I like both forms of transport, though.

 

[anti-pacer]

Door to door was about 3 hours (ish) each way. Had I flown into Glasgow instead of Edinburgh I think it would have been 2 hours 30 each way. I flew Easy Jet with a small cabin bag and checked in on line. There were no queues at security and the scrum at the gate wasn't that bad and the flights roughly on time

I wasn't really aware of lounges so will look into them more

Just out of interest DR, how long did you have to be at the airport before your flights left (both ways)?

 

[DarloRich]

Just out of interest DR, how long did you have to be at the airport before your flights left (both ways)?

with check in on line the gate the closes about 30 minutes before departure and I was through security in minutes as I had hand luggage only.

 

[misterredmist]

Door to door was about 3 hours (ish) each way. Had I flown into Glasgow instead of Edinburgh I think it would have been 2 hours 30 each way. I flew Easy Jet with a small cabin bag and checked in on line. There were no queues at security and the scrum at the gate wasn't that bad and the flights roughly on time

I wasn't really aware of lounges so will look into them more

That's not bad going at all - pretty swift - yes, as posted previous, the Lounge is best booked in advance, takes 5 mins online.... I normally get to the airport a few hours before so I can have a good read, feed and drink !

 

[AnonymousUser1]

You're in luck then! Being reintroduced across the NatEx network right now.

plus the (re)invention of the interdecker - although i suspect modern crash safety may prevent the re remergence of the 'rear lower saloon' on such vehicles if mid engined

 

[faltskog36abba]

I always prefer the train rather than the coach. I travel to Glasgow a few times per year and if I can get a cheap ticket for around 40 pounds return on the train then that's the mode of transport I will take, However when I have been unable to purchase a cheap ticket I have had to use the coach and once I got it for 11 pounds return. The coach up to Glasgow is a slog though as its 11 hours journey time return compared with the train at 6 and a half hours journey return, The train wins.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Crikey, we haven't half gone off-topic here...can we find a way to get boats in as well?

Well, seeing as the question has been raised...

I missed a train at Exmouth last summer, dashed down to the ferry terminal, got the boat across to Starcross and managed to catch the same train onwards to Paignton. That included a 'skipper's detour' to watch some seals so it was arguably 'better' as well as quicker than the train even if it wasn't particularly cheap.

 

[parkender102]

I ride for pleasure up and down the canal so the only item of specialist equipment I own is a helmet and a decent bike lock. By bike is a decent model that came via a work deduction scheme.

However there are lots of people who cycle to work. They have (mainly) decent bikes and all the proper kit. It isnt cheap. That's before you speak to the serious cyclists who do proper mileage.




that's exactly what i did

I agree that cycling is relatively cheap – you don’t need all that designer gear. A decent Helmet will cost you a tenner plus a half decent lock around £15.00. Bikes can be had new from Halfords cheap or buy a second hand one. All the other gear required doesn’t need to be cycle specific – shorts, trainers, track suit bottoms, gloves, a thin waterproof or shell. I’ve commuted between 75 miles and 100 miles a week in London, Cambridge, Wales and Cheshire for the last 10 years and have virtually no expensive bike gear. In summer and down to minus 10 in Winter - Aldi and Lidl have a few sales a year of cheap bike stuff so you don’t have to blow the budget unless you are intent on looking like you are in the Tour De France. Like a previous poster said - it seems most of the people with expensive bikes either only get them out for a Sunday Ride and don't actually use them for commuting or they are seen on a bike rack on a Saturday or Sunday being taken to somewhere quieter for a leisure ride.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Why did NX do away with most of their double-deckers? The only reason that I can think of is the much reduced luggage capacity of a double-decker coach

fatality RTC in a Trathern's operated NX livered Neoplan Skyliner

 

[Bungle965]

Currently on a NX that has the machine that I was talking about up thread.
It is a `ECR` branded machine, a quick google search pretty much confirms what I thought it was, I think is it a replacement for the driver having to hand write out tickets and find the correct fare, it looks to be equipped with the ability to deal with card payments also
Sam

 

[theageofthetra]

Door to door was about 3 hours (ish) each way. Had I flown into Glasgow instead of Edinburgh I think it would have been 2 hours 30 each way. I flew Easy Jet with a small cabin bag and checked in on line. There were no queues at security and the scrum at the gate wasn't that bad and the flights roughly on time

I wasn't really aware of lounges so will look into them more

Don't forget with Easy Jet you can ask to volunteer to check in a bag which is free. They put a pin code into those self serve machines at Gatwick for you.