Trainee drivers at DB schenker

[Beveridges]

DB Schenker will force repayment of all training costs for any employee that leaves within 3 years AFTER training!

You pay £52,000.00 to DB if you leave during training or within 1 year after passing out! You could have been in DB for up to 3 years by this point.

You pay £34,000.00 to DB if you leave during year 2 after passing out.

You pay £17,500.00 to DB if you leave during year 3 after passing out. You could have been with DB for 4-5 years by this point.

You pay back £0.00 if you leave DB during any later than the above.

Now what if you fail your training and are booted off the course? DB fine you £52k as well as giving you the sack? Where do you start paying that off when unemployed??

Similiarly if you join DB and find you can't hack the job, whether its the shifts or the driving, you have to stick it out for potentially 5 years (2 years training + 3 years post qualifying) or find you're going to have to pay back £52k, £34k or £17k.

One thing for sure, anyone going for these jobs has to be 100% SURE that this is the job for them. Its certainly not one you can just walk out of if you decide you don't like it. Not unless you can afford to waste £52k.

However I'd like to see DB try and get £52k off someone. It must be difficult, even if they take you to court. Especially if you don't have that amount of money, how can they get it off you, take your house off you?

 

[ash39]

I would imagine you'd have to agree some kind of installment agreement. It'll be in your contract when you join so they can make you pay it.

I've applied for every driver job local to me in the last year or so, but giving this one a miss. Like you say, I'm pretty sure I'd want to do it but you can never be 100% and I sure don't have £52k to hand to them if I decide it's not for me.

There's surely some ethical issues here as well, what would happen if someone had to move to another country to be with a terminally ill family member? What if they were taken seriously ill themselves? Would they still try to claim the money back?

 

[Beveridges]

It does say on there that there are exceptions, including dismissal due to long term illness

 

[bigbad82]

Is this the same with every toc and foc or just db coz thst is a lot of money to pay back?

 

[LCC106]

No payback clause in my TOC contract.

 

[Scaramanga]

Its DBS's way to trying to stop drivers leaving soon after qualifying for other TOCs as has been the case in the last few years.

 

[Dave1987]

Is this the same with every toc and foc or just db coz thst is a lot of money to pay back?

Nope GA you just have to give 6 months notice

 

[doubleamber]

I can see DBS logic in this, on my asessment with them the examiner was saying DBS was like a training school for Freight liner, and people were finishing after a year or so on the job to earn more money with them. It also says IF YOU LEAVE, not if they get rid of you, other wise that would be a nice little profit for them, take on 500 trainee's get rid of 450 of them in first year and get £52 k off each of them!!£23 million, not bad!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One thing for sure, anyone going for these jobs has to be 100% SURE that this is the job for them. Its certainly not one you can just walk out of if you decide you don't like it. Not unless you can afford to waste £52k.

QUOTE[/]


Good bit of advice for all us wannabees

 

[Robbie89]

is there anyway you can practice the test you do on your assessment day? hopefully i will get the trainee position with db but if not i will do the private assessment day instead

 

[doubleamber]

is there anyway you can practice the test you do on your assessment day? hopefully i will get the trainee position with db but if not i will do the private assessment day instead

do a search, loads of information in the sticky threads.

 

[Dave1987]

is there anyway you can practice the test you do on your assessment day? hopefully i will get the trainee position with db but if not i will do the private assessment day instead

As discussed on a prevous thread doing your assessments privately is not neccessairly a good idea. Especially if you fail. Why not write a decent application and get a TOC to fund your assessment.

 

[Robbie89]

As discussed on a prevous thread doing your assessments privately is not neccessairly a good idea. Especially if you fail. Why not write a decent application and get a TOC to fund your assessment.

thanks dave i have taken on board what you've said but at present the only trainee driver position i can find are with DBS which is on my doorstep nearly and ATW but i would have to relocate which i dont have the funds to do unfortunately.

 

[GB]

I can see DBS logic in this, on my asessment with them the examiner was saying DBS was like a training school for Freight liner, and people were finishing after a year or so on the job to earn more money with them. It also says IF YOU LEAVE, not if they get rid of you, other wise that would be a nice little profit for them, take on 500 trainee's get rid of 450 of them in first year and get £52 k off each of them!!£23 million, not bad!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One thing for sure, anyone going for these jobs has to be 100% SURE that this is the job for them. Its certainly not one you can just walk out of if you decide you don't like it. Not unless you can afford to waste £52k.

QUOTE[/]


Good bit of advice for all us wannabees

Unfortunately it's not as easy as that because there is no way you can know for certain the job is for you until you at the very least start training.

DBS would be very hard pressed to recover costs from drop outs.

 

[Dave1987]

thanks dave i have taken on board what you've said but at present the only trainee driver position i can find are with DBS which is on my doorstep nearly and ATW but i would have to relocate which i dont have the funds to do unfortunately.

Unfortunately to get into the driver role, unless you are very lucky, you have to relocate. I did, I moved 170 miles for the job. I think limiting yourself to DBS if you want to get into the driving grade isnt a good idea. And your competition will be willing to relocate. As was discussed in a recent thread paying to do the assessments privately doesnt neccessarily give you an advantage over other applicants.

 

[Robbie89]

Unfortunately to get into the driver role, unless you are very lucky, you have to relocate. I did, I moved 170 miles for the job. I think limiting yourself to DBS if you want to get into the driving grade isnt a good idea. And your competition will be willing to relocate. As was discussed in a recent thread paying to do the assessments privately doesnt neccessarily give you an advantage over other applicants.

i'm not limiting myself i am willing to relocate and do what ever it takes to become a driver i was looking at the scot rail job but still cant apply for any first group jobs yet. i will apply for the ATW jobs but other than them im not aware of any other trainee positions anyway. i have spoken to DRS as well and they have mentioned the private driver assessment as a good booster for any applicant and a family friend is a driver for london midlands and he believes if you cant get a trainee position it is well worth doing to give you that extra boost

 

[Quickthorn]

However I'd like to see DB try and get £52k off someone. It must be difficult, even if they take you to court. Especially if you don't have that amount of money, how can they get it off you, take your house off you?

If you have equity in it, then yes they could, if they chose to enforce the contract.

I'd imagine it would be a matter for the small claims courts. If they get a CCJ against you here and you do not pay, one of the things they could do is apply for a charging order, which links the debt to your property. If they get this, they could then apply for an order for sale, to force you to sell your house so they can take the amount charged against it.

Of course, if you have nothing to start with, they can't take anything away from you.

 

[Mr Sam]

Its DBS's way to trying to stop drivers leaving soon after qualifying for other TOCs as has been the case in the last few years.

that makes sense, i had a read through it and that bit put me off, say i suddenly cant afford to commute to finish the training ....

 

[rugi]

I think unless you leave to drive for another company this demand for repayment will not be instigated. Also they are not the only ones to require this as ATW also have a similar penalty if you wish to leave soon after they have trained you. I think more will follow as the poaching contiues from those who will not train their own.

 

[Geargrinder]

So, does anyone know how long the training takes ? I understand the passenger TOC's take at least 12 months to train a driver and the real world examples on this site are saying more like 18 months. Is the freight trainee likely to be similar, and at DB Schenker would you then be on £20k for 18months - 2 years ? I personally don't have a problem with the learning contract as it wouldn't feel right to me to ditch a company straight after they have paid for my training - whether I was working behind a bar, driving a dust cart or being a train driver

 

[rugi]

So, does anyone know how long the training takes ? I understand the passenger TOC's take at least 12 months to train a driver and the real world examples on this site are saying more like 18 months. Is the freight trainee likely to be similar, and at DB Schenker would you then be on £20k for 18months - 2 years ? I personally don't have a problem with the learning contract as it wouldn't feel right to me to ditch a company straight after they have paid for my training - whether I was working behind a bar, driving a dust cart or being a train driver

Yes this worried me too, so I spoke to a driver with DBS and this is what I think is how it works. You are on the training salary till you pass enough to drive the routes you have learned, your salary increases (I think to full or maybe nearly) but you spend another year learning other routes and are monitored every month. Therefore 2 years till fully competant but not on £20k salary in second year. Hope this helps, is there a dbs driver on here who can be more specific ? Would help a number of us I think.

 

[Silv1983]

So, does anyone know how long the training takes ? I understand the passenger TOC's take at least 12 months to train a driver and the real world examples on this site are saying more like 18 months. Is the freight trainee likely to be similar, and at DB Schenker would you then be on £20k for 18months - 2 years ? I personally don't have a problem with the learning contract as it wouldn't feel right to me to ditch a company straight after they have paid for my training - whether I was working behind a bar, driving a dust cart or being a train driver

For Northern drivers' its 33 weeks on paper until passout. Sometimes longer, somethings shorter - depending on availability of instructors and luck with route availability. Can't comment on FOCs, but I imagine its similar as the bulk of training is rules etc for mainline drivers'. If you're going for driver operator - then it would be comparable to an MDD (Shunter) at Nothern... which is only 5 or 6 weeks training in the classroom and then a few more weeks on depot until passout. So basically not as long as you think.. hopefully..

 

[ash39]

that makes sense, i had a read through it and that bit put me off, say i suddenly cant afford to commute to finish the training ....

Would have to be a pretty catastrophic situation to not be able to afford to commute on £20k !

 

[GB]

So, does anyone know how long the training takes ? I understand the passenger TOC's take at least 12 months to train a driver and the real world examples on this site are saying more like 18 months. Is the freight trainee likely to be similar, and at DB Schenker would you then be on £20k for 18months - 2 years ? I personally don't have a problem with the learning contract as it wouldn't feel right to me to ditch a company straight after they have paid for my training - whether I was working behind a bar, driving a dust cart or being a train driver

Usually 3 months class room and at least 250hrs actual driving unless you are ready before the 250 is up.

So anything from 9 to 12 months. Not sure why DBS are saying 2 years or what's different about them.

 

[doubleamber]

Usually 3 months class room and at least 250hrs actual driving unless you are ready before the 250 is up.

So anything from 9 to 12 months. Not sure why DBS are saying 2 years or what's different about them.

2 years on 20k, and if your doing turns after 18 months, they are in affect getting 6 months work done for half price. Still not going to stop people going for that childhood dream. Thats what any company knows, I no lots of ex bashers who now drive trains, 1 of them took a massive pay cut to do it, as he used to be a city lawyer!

 

[Beveridges]

If you're going for driver operator - then it would be comparable to an MDD (Shunter) at Nothern which is only 5 or 6 weeks training in the classroom and then a few more weeks on depot until passout. So basically not as long as you think.. hopefully..

Driver Operator training with Northern is 5 weeks in the classroom then 17 weeks on practical handling on depot / comms / traction / other depot duties then a 2 week passout assessment. That was mine anyway but that was for a large depot. Small depots will be less. It has been known for a Driver Operator with Northern to take over 10 months between starting the course and passing out, due to setbacks that can happen in training. It has been known for a Northern Mainline Driver to take over 16 months to pass out from starting the course due to set backs that happened during the training period. Getting passed out in the minimum time is not a given.

I can't speak for DB Schenker but I can guarantee Driver Operator training with DB Schenker will have many weeks in the classroom. Same rules as mainline driver as they drive on mainline up to 20 miles.

 

[TDK]

I think unless you leave to drive for another company this demand for repayment will not be instigated. Also they are not the only ones to require this as ATW also have a similar penalty if you wish to leave soon after they have trained you. I think more will follow as the poaching contiues from those who will not train their own.

This was in place in 2000 with Connex so it isn't a new thing.

 

[Scaramanga]

I see that the trainee positions are no longer advertised on the website so they must have had sufficient applicants. Good luck to those who applied.

 

[wills]

crickey! Does anyone know when they closed the applications?? I have spent the best part of three days on mine, making sure it was as damn near perfect as I could make it. Finally got it sent off this afternoon (Saturday) - hopefully it will still be accepted :roll:

-Will

 

[JAMBO]

Firstly i wouldnt go thinking you can get your drivers ticket and leave for other Focs/Tocs, it has been done and i know of a guy who was chased in court. We were told it costs around £75k to train a guy up, something to think about. As for the training its 12 weeks classroom based at donny,covering rules and regulations, class 66, pts, shunting, and 9 simulator sessions. Also cab rides on a diagrammed coal train, and visits to a signal box, both semaphore, and donny power box. 9 sim sessions were everything covered in your rules like TBW,SLW,failures and such. Its then off to your depot and to meet your minder, i was fortunate to get an excellent minder so learnt everything he knew basically and i still drive like that to this day. I think it was 250 hrs 66 handling, 50 of those in darkness so nice 1am starts, 25 light engine and also shunting hours. After coming through that its then back to Donny for your final sim check. Basically covers all 9 previous with some extras thrown in just to make you sweat!! If you pass that, and yes some have failed its then back to your depot to do your final rules exam with an examiner. A full 8 hrs of head bashing stuff,drawing on blackboard the lot. Its then crunch time if you have passed to become a qualified train driver. All good and well its paperwork signed and then rostered your first productive train, this is when your salary increases to driver wage. Always remember the first time when i looked to my side and my minder was not there, quite a scary moment as i had to haul a train 100 mile up the east coast on my own. The next 2 years you are most at risk so your rating is very high so its alot of rides with DTM, and regular downloads to keep you on the ball, so then the next time you do your rules again you are then out of the PQA Banding.Met some great guys on the course, we had good times and also times when our heads were up our backsides,funny only a few of them are left at DBS, others at various FOCS/TOCS, but keep your nose clean and it will be the best move you have made

 

[TDK]

Usually 3 months class room and at least 250hrs actual driving unless you are ready before the 250 is up.

So anything from 9 to 12 months. Not sure why DBS are saying 2 years or what's different about them.

I can't seem to see anything official about this! Do DBS say 20K whilst training or 20K for the first 2 years? I think all TOC's now give a reduced salary to new drivers until they have finished their PQ period and this is in reality usually about 3 years on reduced pay doing the same work as the other drivers for less money!