Transpennine Express decide not to use MK3's on limited services

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by pdeaves, 28 Jan 2017.

  1. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    Thats still a shame because an extra 3 x 185s on south TPE services would provide temporary relief for overcrowding. So according to RTT the Mark III sets are not due to start services until end of July now?
     
  2. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Member

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    According to RTT the sets are due to operate 21 to 25 May and 28 May to 1 June.
     
  3. 37201xoIM

    37201xoIM Member

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    Entirely agreed! As per the post from "bovverboy", it's still hoped that they will at least appear (or at least one will!) before the blockade - not least in response to stakeholder pressure...
     
  4. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    Not entirely sure how you are seeing that but all TPE services are shown on RTT on the LIV-SCA route from May 21 as a class 185 no LHCS. They are pathed as a 185 because Network Rail wouldn't allow paths to be inserted as LHCS in case they didn't run.

    The current stage is that there is still training ongoing for the crews, so as of the moment all the trains will be 185's from May. We shall receive 3 days notice if enough crews are class 68 trained and from thence we shall swap the diagrams over, but they will still be in the system (on RTT) as a class 185.
     
  5. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    The extra class 185's on the South route begin in December. That has always been the plan.
     
  6. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    No they won't be running, as there is nowhere to stable LHCS at MCV between duties.
     
  7. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    I know but unless TPE have other plans then why not use them to temporarily boost other routes during the closure of Lime Street?
     
  8. BeHereNow

    BeHereNow Member

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    There's a 190m turnback on the west side of Victoria?

    No Mk3s from May, on one of the country's most overcrowded TOCs. 'We remain committed to customers'! http://www.liverpoolchamber.org.uk/article.aspx/show/29057
     
  9. 37201xoIM

    37201xoIM Member

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    Thanks: it sounds as though your inside info might be a little more "inside" than mine is..... ;)
     
  10. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    Which will already be busy enough...

    I didn't say that there would for certain be no MK3's from May, I said it depends on crew training as to exactly when they will enter service. They will arrive, just no exact date set, yet. Crew training started later than originally planned.

    Ha :lol: Not so sure at times, but the people I work alongside know a lot more than I am allowed write on here. ;)
     
  11. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    Even if the two loco hauled sets are in service on 21st May, will TPE not still be short of stock, as they are having to resource an additional hourly Manchester - Leeds semi-fast every hour, which requires three units. Are they saving a set somewhere else?
     
  12. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    A set is saved by the LIV-SCA-LIV turn taking under 6 hours instead of the current 7 hours :)
     
  13. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    Isn't the number of units going on daily hire to Northern being reduced too?
     
  14. Mollman

    Mollman Member

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    Yes, Northern are replacing them with 158s plus reducing the number of through services to Manchester from Cumbria.
     
  15. BeHereNow

    BeHereNow Member

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    Hopefully they'll be in service for May, given the expansion on a number of routes.
     
  16. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    @BMIFlyer should be able to give you the answer in regards to 185s.

    Don't forgot that Northern has received 4 x 170s, 2 x 158s and I think about 15 x 150 since December.
     
  17. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Member

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    I was going by the existence of the ECS workings to/from Crewe. If the LHCS can't run, they can't run.

    That's sensible enough, but would LHCS-specific diagrams be timed faster than 185?
     
  18. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    Northern will lease 2x185 per day from May onward.

    Those are in the system to gain the appropriate paths to and from Crewe, should the LHCS be used.

    They technically are going to be faster in service, acceleration wise. The issue with paths also is station dwell times, which will be longer for LHCS as opposed to a 185 being used, for many reasons.
     
  19. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Member

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    According to RTT the Scarboroughs are going to be using Platforms 1 & 2, with no shunt move involved. So whether LHCS could be used simply depends on whether an LHCS set would fit in those platforms. But we're already pretty sure that, while the Lime Street works are ongoing, there won't be any LHCS on Scarboroughs.

    The Newcastles are shown as generally arriving Platform 3 and departing Platform 4, with a trip to the reversing siding in between. Whilst there, a 319 off the Huyton stopper is scheduled to double up. There do look to be one or two exceptions to this arrangement, though.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2018
  20. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Member

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    An LHCS diagram will either fit inside a 185 diagram or it won't, whatever the station dwell times might be.
     
  21. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    Not according to Network Rail. LHCS services will use different pathing times...

    Not that simple re the LHCS turnarounds at MCV. Too much to explain on here, so I won't.
     
  22. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Member

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    You've already said that the LHCS sets will use 185 paths.

     
  23. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    Let me refresh...

    The trains are pathed as a 185 because pathing them as a loco hauled train in the system brings up other issues to deal with. I'm not going any deeper into that.
     
  24. CosherB

    CosherB On Moderation

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    Indeed. Maybe Porterbrook will repaint the ex-Pretendolino carriages into AGA livery so all of their Mk3s match eventually. Pigs might fly. :lol:
     
  25. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    It doesn't seem terribly likely that the trains will actually be carrying passengers before 30th July :p
     
  26. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    Correct, it seems what I wrote in reply 544 has been confirmed now.
     
  27. 37201xoIM

    37201xoIM Member

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    If that is correct, I would hope and expect that Rail North Partnership will go ballistic over this flagrant and entirely avoidable franchise breach.

    [The technical term for the above comment is "the triumph of hope over experience".]
     
  28. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    It has been put back until the Lime Street rebuild is finished, that is all.

    In my opinion, a good decision. Makes it easier to fix various issues before service starts. There were a lot of things needing to be done to the stock regardless of the crew training and other staff training too.
     
  29. 37201xoIM

    37201xoIM Member

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    I have to disagree with you, I'm afraid: what you say would be reasonable if today's date were not 10 May 2018. This franchise has been running for over 2 years. There has been more than ample time to get eight (strictly ten but I won't labour that point) coaches ready for the Dec 17 TT change, let alone May 18.

    It is not the franchisee's place to make unilateral decisions as to whether it wants to abide by its contractual obligations - in the face of critical levels of crowding.
     
  30. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    I guess we shall see what happens in the next couple of weeks then. :lol:
     

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