Transport for the South East public body to be set up

[infobleep]

The following is taken from the London Goverment Chronicle which is behind a pay wall. I think it's a good idea.

Transport for the South East (TfSE) is preparing to launch as the overarching transport body representing those in the south-east but outside London.

The new body, which will cover Berkshire, Hampshire, Sussex, Surrey and Kent, will work with local authorities including the unitary councils Brighton & Hove, Portsmouth, and Southampton city councils, and Isle of Wight and Medway councils, other stakeholders and businesses to develop an integrated transport strategy for the area.

TfSE chair Geoff French said the new body would “deal with the gap between national infrastructure and very local infrastructure”, as there was very little funding available for the “middle ground”.

“What we want to be doing is making a solid case based on economic development for intermediate schemes,” said Mr French. “Not High Speed 4 or massive new motorways, but addressing and tying together transport projects which go across more than one authority.”

https://www.lgcplus.com/7023306.article?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=LGC_EditorialNewsletters.Paid: Send - Daily Newsletter&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTlRNNVltTmlPVFk1T1RGayIsInQiOiJseWx2c3YyaTRxdEJoaVlZam9cL0s2T1J6SEQ4aW9HelV2NUxqSnlPeVo2cnJFUWQ3RHU3R1wvSkxaYlhWZDNGQmhpWldwbzBPK3RjT1QybGZ3NzM2NDN3UlYzbnNuQ3A1OTlUczZNTUVmd3lZNTErXC9Lb0RUZjRFQjZLVWlMREVJbyJ9

Enterprise M3, along with Surrey and Hampshire councils helped fund the WiFi at some of the Surrey and north Hampshire railway stations.

Could that look at things like Cranleigh to Guildford line. I know in the past it was considered to have no business case but I also know that their are people who'd rather use it than have to take the car or bus from Cranleigh to Guildford, especially during rush hour.

So Mr French says the South East get the same amount as the North, just that London gets much more. Also one one sign posted station on the M25, Ebbsfleet.

Let the discussion of north vers south east begin, again!

 

[AM9]

Not sure that everybody will agree with the name 'south-east'. It's more like south-coast. If they really mean south-east how does that include Hampshire and Berkshire but not Essex and Hertfordshire?

 

[coppercapped]

Because they are in the Midlands...?

(My coat is on the hook by the door...)

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure that everybody will agree with the name 'south-east'. It's more like south-coast. If they really mean south-east how does that include Hampshire and Berkshire but not Essex and Hertfordshire?

Essex and Hertfordshire are in the "East of England" government region.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Essex and Hertfordshire are in the "East of England" government region.

Which is political nonsense. In a practical sense relating to transport need (i.e. London commuterland), the SE is pretty much the NSE area give or take the debatable bits like Northampton to Long Buckby and past Bournemouth.

It needs to include Essex, Kent, Sussex, Oxon, Bucks, Herts, Beds, Cambs etc to be vaguely sensible. We could even call it "Network SouthEast"!

 

[Mag_seven]

(i.e. London commuterland)

Define "London Commuterland" - lets not forget the significant number of people who commute from places such as Bristol, Bath, Cheltenham etc!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Define "London Commuterland" - lets not forget the significant number of people who commute from places such as Bristol, Bath, Cheltenham etc!

The old NSE area pretty much defines, the Weymouth and Exeter extensions of SWR aside, the area in which the primary bulk of rail travel demand is for London commuting rather than for one-off InterCity journeys. There are always exceptions (e.g. there are even commuters from Manchester) but that's not the bulk of demand.

 

[AM9]

Which is political nonsense. In a practical sense relating to transport need (i.e. London commuterland), the SE is pretty much the NSE area give or take the debatable bits like Northampton to Long Buckby and past Bournemouth.

It needs to include Essex, Kent, Sussex, Oxon, Bucks, Herts, Beds, Cambs etc to be vaguely sensible. We could even call it "Network SouthEast"!

That was more my view given that the new man was going on about London getting the big money. Much of that money is on lines that radiate all the way around the capital. In the narrower sense, 'south-east is Kent and East Sussex. Anything west of the BML is the south coast.

Essex and Hertfordshire are in the "East of England" government region.

So are Hants and Berkshire in the 'south-east'? Well according to Google they are but their definition includes Oxforshire and Buckinghamshire which is even more daft, especially in Transport terms. The new body should have been TftHC (Transport for the Home Counties).

 

[Mag_seven]

The old NSE area pretty much defines, the Weymouth and Exeter extensions of SWR aside, the area in which the primary bulk of rail travel demand is for London commuting rather than for one-off InterCity journeys. There are always exceptions (e.g. there are even commuters from Manchester) but that's not the bulk of demand.

Probably what we are after is a measure that encapsulates the bulk of London commuting flows e.g. 80% of commuter journeys to/from London are from stations that are within X miles of London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably what we are after is a measure that encapsulates the bulk of London commuting flows e.g. 80% of commuter journeys to/from London are from stations that are within X miles of London.

Yeah, something like that. It makes sense to set up a transport body that takes in a homogeneous area in terms of transport need - which is roughly what the NSE area (other than the Western outposts which are there for operational convenience) is.

 

[cactustwirly]

So are Hants and Berkshire in the 'south-east'? Well according to Google they are but their definition includes Oxforshire and Buckinghamshire which is even more daft, especially in Transport terms. The new body should have been TftHC (Transport for the Home Counties).

Definately, I don't see where else they would fall?

Why is Oxfordshire & Bucks being in the SE daft?

 

[route:oxford]

Definately, I don't see where else they would fall?

Why is Oxfordshire & Bucks being in the SE daft?

In the olden days, Oxford was served by ATV from Birmingham.

Bucks, on the other hand, almost reaches as far as Heathrow.

 

[Dumpton Park]

Historically, however it may look on a map, most of East Kent and some parts of the Sussex coast - Hastings, Bexhill, etc - were *much* further from London timewise than, say Oxford or Aylesbury and their hinterlands. HS1 has changed things a bit for some of them, it's true. But Herne Bay and Deal are still a pretty lengthy trip from the City.

DP

 

[fergusjbend]

It is pointless to argue that certain counties should or should not be included in the South East Region. The fact of the matter is that this area (and all other regions of the UK) have been defined and well-established for some time: see Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics (NUTS). Get used to it!

 

[AM9]

It is pointless to argue that certain counties should or should not be included in the South East Region. The fact of the matter is that this area (and all other regions of the UK) have been defined and well-established for some time: see Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics (NUTS).

So what has an area established purely for statistical purposes got to do with the creation of a body to develop an integrated transport strategy. London commuting and other transport systems are predominately radial in nature to serve a travelling population that is distributed almost uniformly around the compass. There are some major corridors (e.g. BML, M3, M4/GWR, M1/WCML) but it is quite clear that the transport strategy needs to be developed as a whole, not based on a geographical area that has been convenient for gathering figures.

Get used to it!

What a strange statement to use to further an intelligent discussion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is pointless to argue that certain counties should or should not be included in the South East Region. The fact of the matter is that this area (and all other regions of the UK) have been defined and well-established for some time: see Nomenclature of Territorial Units for Statistics (NUTS). Get used to it!

We're not arguing that it should be included in the area defined by some irrelevant body for statistics. We're arguing that the definition of an area for what is basically a super-PTE should be the London travel-to-work area because of the homogeneous transport need.

 

[JaJaWa]

Wasn’t paywalled for me:

Transport for the South East (TfSE) is preparing to launch as the overarching transport body representing those in the south-east but outside London.

The new body, which will cover Berkshire, Hampshire, Sussex, Surrey and Kent, will work with local authorities including the unitary councils Brighton & Hove, Portsmouth, and Southampton city councils, and Isle of Wight and Medway councils, other stakeholders and businesses to develop an integrated transport strategy for the area.

Speaking to LGC’s sister title New Civil Engineer TfSE chair Geoff French said the new body would “deal with the gap between national infrastructure and very local infrastructure”, as there was very little funding available for the “middle ground”.

“What we want to be doing is making a solid case based on economic development for intermediate schemes,” said Mr French. “Not High Speed 4 or massive new motorways, but addressing and tying together transport projects which go across more than one authority.”

Mr French said having bodies co-ordinating that kind of work would help big funding agencies prioritise investment in the regions.

“The advantage to agencies like Network Rail, Highways England and the Department for Transport (DfT) is the ability to look at the different areas as a whole and identify which schemes would have the most beneficial impact, and then back those.”

The south-east region is home to a number significant economic hubs including Southampton and Newhaven ports and Gatwick and Southampton airports. Heathrow Airport is a “stones throw” away from its border too, noted Mr French.

He said the body had already set up a transport forum where the operators and the users of trains, buses, roads, airports and seaports can come together with local enterprise partnerships to express views. It has also started an economic study of the area to find projects to bring forward which were related to economic growth in the area, added Mr French who is also chair of the Enterprise M3 LEP.

As an example of the current level of disconnect, and what Mr French hoped the body would solve, the only signposted railway station on the M25 is Ebbsfleet International.

Mr French said one of the things he is keen to rebut is the widely held view that London and the south-east already received the lions’ share of funding.

“One of the things we feel quite strongly about is that London and the south-east is getting all the money,” he said. “Yes London is getting a lot of money, but if you look at the expenditure per head, then there’s almost the same amount of money going to the north as there is in the south-east.

“It’s actually really just London that is getting the lion’s share.”

The body is hoping to get statutory status – giving it the ability to formally speak as one voice for the area and work with the DfT to dole out funding – by 2020. Transport for the North is due to become a statutory body in April this year.

Mr French said although the timescale might seem far off, transport secretary Chris Grayling had already given positive indications that he was willing to listen to the views of the body before a formal status was awarded.

TfSE will be formally launching in Farnborough on 8 May.

Also, here is the official website and map: https://transportforthesoutheast.org.uk/

 

[Hadders]

Is this new authority going to have any money and/or powers of its own or is it effectively a talking shop?

 

[WatcherZero]

Sounds like a talking shop.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

We are very good at talking shops in this country it keeps the unemployment figures down. We have one for roads too "Highways England" always plenty of plans but no shovels in the ground.

 

[WatcherZero]

No shovels in the ground? Have you ever used a motorway in this country, its nothing but roadworks.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Off topic I know but around here Stonehenge (talked about for 40 years), Chichester, Arundel, Worthing (talked about for 20+ years) so don't hold your breath for any rail improvements any time soon. We cannot even re-open the existing track towards Fawley now disused. We will probably set up a consultation to look into it once trees have grown through the sleepers.

 

[Ianigsy]

Presumably the point is that there are certain locations - Reading, Gatwick, the Solent for example- which are big enough to have transport needs independent of London and which aren't met by a London-centred network. Transport between outlying centres can be slow and infrequent- about 20 years ago when I needed to go from Canterbury to Brighton for an interview, it was quicker by about an hour to go up to Victoria and change than via Ashford and Hastings.

 

[The Ham]

Presumably the point is that there are certain locations - Reading, Gatwick, the Solent for example- which are big enough to have transport needs independent of London and which aren't met by a London-centred network. Transport between outlying centres can be slow and infrequent- about 20 years ago when I needed to go from Canterbury to Brighton for an interview, it was quicker by about an hour to go up to Victoria and change than via Ashford and Hastings.

Even the Aldershot Urban area (which goes across 3 county boundaries) has a population that sits between Plymouth (260k) and Milton Keynes (230k), and although significantly smaller than the Southampton/Portsmouth urban area it covers a significantly smaller area.

One area that it could prove to be useful would be schemes that link lines that don't connect to each other or for routes that go perpendicular to the London bound lines.

 

[tbtc]

It needs to include Essex, Kent, Sussex, Oxon, Bucks, Herts, Beds, Cambs etc to be vaguely sensible. We could even call it "Network SouthEast"!

I know that BR-era nostalgia will always play popularly on here but I don't think that everything has to follow old patterns.

I'm all in favour of this move - there are probably a few cross-county things that could be improved, without needing a mega-project.

I like the language too - talking of "the gap between national infrastructure and very local infrastructure... very little funding available for the middle ground...not High Speed 4 or massive new motorways, but addressing and tying together transport projects which go across more than one authority”.

It's a shame that there aren't more examples of a wishlist, but then it's early days, maybe they don't want to be seen to focus too much on one scheme.

The only surprise for me is the inclusion of Berkshire, but the I guess there's got to be a dividing line somewhere.

Maybe TSGN would have had a harder time if there'd been a "regional" organisation keeping them honest?

 

[Class 170101]

They have a body at the moment who 'speaks' up for their interests

He is called Chris Grayling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know that BR-era nostalgia will always play popularly on here but I don't think that everything has to follow old patterns.

It's not because it's an old pattern. It's because the transport need of the London travel-to-work area (the area where public transport journeys are overwhelmingly London commuting) really needs to be considered by one body.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I know that BR-era nostalgia will always play popularly on here but I don't think that everything has to follow old patterns.

I'm all in favour of this move - there are probably a few cross-county things that could be improved, without needing a mega-project.

I like the language too - talking of "the gap between national infrastructure and very local infrastructure... very little funding available for the middle ground...not High Speed 4 or massive new motorways, but addressing and tying together transport projects which go across more than one authority”.

It's a shame that there aren't more examples of a wishlist, but then it's early days, maybe they don't want to be seen to focus too much on one scheme.

The only surprise for me is the inclusion of Berkshire, but the I guess there's got to be a dividing line somewhere.

Maybe TSGN would have had a harder time if there'd been a "regional" organisation keeping them honest?

Agreed. A lot of people are assuming that this trying to be Network SouthEast or replicate its remit, and it isn't. Not even close.

 

[yorksrob]

It appears very much to mirror the old Southern Region of BR.

That said, something that looks after the interests of people using local lines such as the Marshlink and Coastway routes (which get overwhelmed in the London centric nature of things) is a good thing. Why no counties north of London ? Oh yes, Beeching closed all the local routes north of London (well, most of them anyway).

 

[Matt_pool]

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