Travelling from Waterloo East, Ticket not available from machine

[philthetube]

What makes you think that you are not entitled to a Priv discounted Oyster card? I suggest that you download the form off the Intranet and get your manager to sign it, if you are retired then the form is available from the Pension fund office.

I feel to have spent all my breaks at work interrogating station station staff about the priv oyster, nobody seems confident with information.

I now know that they can be issued, on a separate oyster to the staff pass but I have not found anyone working for the underground who has one or has issued one to another member of staff. The reason being that they are normally of very little value and usually more expensive to use than paper tickets, at least this is what I am told.

TFL staff are not normally going to reach caps and Oyster does not take account of return fares so it normally costs virtually double to make a journey, in my case 2 x £1.10 against 1 x £1.20, not really a satisfactory solution.

I am still waiting for a reply from my email to Southeastern, which I sent on Saturday, I will pass on their reply when I have it.

 

[Haywain]

What makes you think that you are not entitled to a Priv discounted Oyster card? I suggest that you download the form off the Intranet and get your manager to sign it, if you are retired then the form is available from the Pension fund office.

Probably not being safeguarded staff. New entrant staff (TOC staff, at least) cannot get the discount on Oyster.

 

[Mojo]

Probably not being safeguarded staff. New entrant staff (TOC staff, at least) cannot get the discount on Oyster.

If he isn’t Safeguarded staff then he wouldn’t be able to get Priv discount on walkup NR tickets at all (Paper or Oyster) so he must be Safeguarded (or the partner of Toc staff who can now get Priv Oyster for NR regardless of whether they are Safeguarded or not).

 

[ji459]

Returning to the original premise of the post that "the obvious route is via Met and jubilee lines to Southwark then Waterloo east to Blackheath", according to Traveline the quickest route is actually to continue on the Jubilee line until London Bridge and take the train from there.

 

[yorkie]

Returning to the original premise of the post that "the obvious route is via Met and jubilee lines to Southwark then Waterloo east to Blackheath", according to Traveline the quickest route is actually to continue on the Jubilee line until London Bridge and take the train from there.

I'm not convinced by that; London Bridge LU & NR stations are quite a long distance apart.

Also I am unsure what the current situation with the engineering works is, but LBG may be best avoided, at least for now.

 

[thedbdiboy]

There is no booking office at Harrow on the Hill, and no facility for them to issue PRIV. The passenger interchanges at Finchley Road and Southwark/Waterloo East on to Southeastern.

Southeastern has chosen to offer no facility to issue these fares at the Southwark entrance to Waterloo East.

Therefore the passenger must be allowed entry into Waterloo East. It is not correct for Southeastern to turn them away and force them to take a London Underground train to a different station.

In this case, as the destination is within the Oyster area, does the OP have a PRIV enabled Oyster card to use? This of course is no help for journeys exteding beyond the Oyster are.

Southeastern has not 'chosen' to not provide a ticket office at the Southwark entrance - there is no means for one to exist as it is not an entrance. It is a unique situation whereby Southwark tube station was designed to have an additional entrance between the NR and LUL bit but planning permission was refused so there is a curious 'no-mans-land' between the two sections. TfL doesn't have any ticket machines either. Therefore, interchange between the two is only available to people who hold tickets valid for both TfL and NR. No-one is forced to get on the Underground, they just go out of the public exit of Southwark station and walk round to Waterloo. A holder of NR staff facilities is also not allowed to enter the TfL bit without already having a ticket and is forced to go out of the Waterloo East exit and round at street level to the public entrance of Southwark tube.

 

[Mojo]

TfL doesn't have any ticket machines either.

TfL doesn’t, but there are a couple of LU passenger operated machines, as well as a S&B TVM with Southeastern branding.

A holder of NR staff facilities is also not allowed to enter the TfL bit without already having a ticket and is forced to go out of the Waterloo East exit and round at street level to the public entrance of Southwark tube.

However, if using Oyster/CPC you can pass through the station for free. Why has Southeastern not made a similar arrangement?

 

[yorkie]

Southeastern has not 'chosen' to not provide a ticket office at the Southwark entrance - there is no means for one to exist as it is not an entrance.

I'd argue that any entrance that has a ticket machine but no ticket office should not turn away an intending passenger who wishes to purchase a fare (unless the alternative entrance with a ticket office was very nearby and did not cause inconvenience)

It is a unique situation whereby Southwark tube station was designed to have an additional entrance between the NR and LUL bit but planning permission was refused so there is a curious 'no-mans-land' between the two sections. TfL doesn't have any ticket machines either. Therefore, interchange between the two is only available to people who hold tickets valid for both TfL and NR.

There are machines in the "No mans land". It would be even stranger if there weren't (it's already rather odd; if any forum member has not been there yet, it is worth passing through. I agree it is unique as far as I know)

No-one is forced to get on the Underground, they just go out of the public exit of Southwark station and walk round to Waterloo. A holder of NR staff facilities is also not allowed to enter the TfL bit without already having a ticket and is forced to go out of the Waterloo East exit and round at street level to the public entrance of Southwark tube.

OK, I take this point, but a lengthy walk isn't a good alternative either

 

[steamybrian]

I have read this posting with interest. Maybe I have missed something but suggest purchasing at Harrow-on-the Hill a privilege ticket "London Terminals to Blackheath" or alternatively purchase the said ticket at London Bridge. There is now a subway connection at London Bridge available between the LU and NR stations.

 

[Mojo]

I have read this posting with interest. Maybe I have missed something but suggest purchasing at Harrow-on-the Hill a privilege ticket "London Terminals to Blackheath" or alternatively purchase the said ticket at London Bridge. There is now a subway connection at London Bridge available between the LU and NR stations.

Harrow on the Hill is a London Underground station, and therefore it does not have a booking office. Some of the ex-Silverlink stations still have booking offices however this is not one of them, and the remaining ones will close soon.

 

[thedbdiboy]

At one time there were no machines in the 'no-mans-land'. I actually agree that the situation is daft but the point I was trying to make is that the Waterloo East - Southwark interchange is a pretty unique one exacerbated by the planning restriction that doesn't let you outside, and that the issue with Priv holders applies in both directions - it's not just a failing on the NR bit.

 

[tsr]

Probably not being safeguarded staff. New entrant staff (TOC staff, at least) cannot get the discount on Oyster.

If he isn’t Safeguarded staff then he wouldn’t be able to get Priv discount on walkup NR tickets at all (Paper or Oyster) so he must be Safeguarded (or the partner of Toc staff who can now get Priv Oyster for NR regardless of whether they are Safeguarded or not).

The Priv discount rate on Oyster applies for both NR and Tube services for employees of certain operators, regardless of safeguarded/new entrant status.

Amongst these is GTR, for example. (Obviously if the OP needs to buy a ticket to Blackheath, they are not a GTR employee, as those employees also get free travel on the Go Ahead group's Southeastern services.)

Priv discount also applies to walkup NR tickets whether or not you are safeguarded, so I'm not sure what that's all about...

There is now a subway connection at London Bridge available between the LU and NR stations.

Yes, but there's a subterranean street in the middle, which breaks it up a bit, as well as plentiful access to the NR concourse in order to get to a ticket office! (Which I think is the point you may well be trying to make...)

 

[James H]

When Southwark first opened there was an LU ticket office in the space between the LU and NR gatelines.

 

[philthetube]

Just to clarify one point, I am a LUL employee

 

[RJ]

If you come off the Underground at Southwark and want to buy a Priv ticket to travel from Waterloo East, it's not possible.

I was in this situation a few years ago, wanting to get to Lewisham at around 18.30. Southeastern's barrier staff gave me the following options;

a.) Buy a public rate ticket from TVM to Charing Cross, obtain a refund and Priv ticket from Lewisham there.
b.) Ask the Underground to let me back in and out the other end, walk to Waterloo to buy a Priv ticket.
c.) Go through the barriers and the RPI present would charge me "very big fine" (sic).
d.) Pay the public rate.

Suffice to say I got through the barriers (without their help) and travelled direct from Waterloo East to Lewisham that evening without taking them up on any of their options. The ticket office at Lewisham was closed early on arrival. I also don't pay Penalty Fares that go straight into the RPI's pocket. If they are in possession of a machine they can issue a PF ticket with, then they can sell a Priv ticket from it.

The problem is there is no access to the street if you find yourself in this situation so you'd hope the staff there would apply some common sense.

There is a wider issue with stations where there is no open ticket office and barriers are closed at the same time. Some railway staff are of the opinion that if you choose to start your journey from a station/at a time there are no ticket office facilities, you are not entitled to pay Priv rate or buy the full range of tickets. I think this is a BR era thing, but thin

 

[RJ]

Whatever the merits of the discussion so far, I would have thought that, in this case and given the many journey possibilities in London where there is such a dense network, it would be just as easy and quick, and far less stressful, to get the Met to Baker Street, change there on to the Bakerloo and take that to Charing Cross, from where you can buy a priv rate ticket and still (in all likelihood) be on exactly the same train as you would have been had you gone via Jubilee to Southwark / Waterloo East.

Maybe by looking a a map, but I'm not convinced as someone who uses the same route to commute.

The Met/Jubilee interchange at Finchley Road is cross platform and the Jubilee Line takes about 17 minutes to Southwark from there.

The Met to Baker Street is pretty slow, it's a longer interchange at Baker Street, longer waiting times for the Bakerloo then the walk to Charing Cross NR station is about a third of a mile from the Bakerloo Line platforms. I wouldn't consider it as easy, quick or less stressful than the first option - quite the contrary! It would certainly add time to the journey.

 

[RJ]

Southeastern has not 'chosen' to not provide a ticket office at the Southwark entrance - there is no means for one to exist as it is not an entrance. It is a unique situation whereby Southwark tube station was designed to have an additional entrance between the NR and LUL bit but planning permission was refused so there is a curious 'no-mans-land' between the two sections. TfL doesn't have any ticket machines either. Therefore, interchange between the two is only available to people who hold tickets valid for both TfL and NR. No-one is forced to get on the Underground, they just go out of the public exit of Southwark station and walk round to Waterloo. A holder of NR staff facilities is also not allowed to enter the TfL bit without already having a ticket and is forced to go out of the Waterloo East exit and round at street level to the public entrance of Southwark tube.

It's not advertised as for ticket holders only though as is seen elsewhere on the network - because there are both Southeastern and LU TVMs between the gatelines.

Waterloo East has three gatelines, but no ticket office. There are many groups of people, not just Priv holders who will turn up for the first time at the Sandell Street or Southwark LU entrances wanting a ticket that the TVMs can't issue. There should be a special procedure for dealing with them - something a bit better than turning them away and advising them to walk to a different station to buy their ticket. Where I work, barrier staff are equipped with portable ticket machines!

 

[RJ]

Returning to the original premise of the post that "the obvious route is via Met and jubilee lines to Southwark then Waterloo east to Blackheath", according to Traveline the quickest route is actually to continue on the Jubilee line until London Bridge and take the train from there.

The data has a few very useful LU/NR interchanges missing so the journey planners don't necessarily suggest the best options. London Bridge is a building site with some pretty annoying variable walking routes. There is a subway which is closed at certain times of the week, making the interchange even longer! I commute from SE London to the Westminster area 5 days a week. I tried interchanging at London Bridge once and that was quite enough. I'd far rather go via Cannon Street for a less stressful journey or via Waterloo East/Southwark if I must.

 

[bb21]

I feel to have spent all my breaks at work interrogating station station staff about the priv oyster, nobody seems confident with information.

I now know that they can be issued, on a separate oyster to the staff pass but I have not found anyone working for the underground who has one or has issued one to another member of staff. The reason being that they are normally of very little value and usually more expensive to use than paper tickets, at least this is what I am told.

TFL staff are not normally going to reach caps and Oyster does not take account of return fares so it normally costs virtually double to make a journey, in my case 2 x £1.10 against 1 x £1.20, not really a satisfactory solution.

I am still waiting for a reply from my email to Southeastern, which I sent on Saturday, I will pass on their reply when I have it.

I don't think it will quite work out like that. Inside the zones, only Anytime fares remain on paper AIUI, so the return wouldn't just be pennies more than the single. Oyster PAYG is also generally cheaper so two singles on Oyster at peak time at worst would be comparable to the paper Anytime Day Return.

Waterloo East to Blackheath appears to be £1.85 return on paper, 90p Oyster peak single and 65p Oyster off-peak single, so you would be better off using Oyster. I think it works out more or less like this in most situations in the peak. Off-Peak Oyster would be cheaper.

I was just intrigued initially why you'd rather change at Southwark when getting off the Jubilee a stop earlier at Waterloo would give a similar result without the faff finding a place to pay for the ticket, but tbh I am more shocked that gateline plainly refused entry upon the presentation of a staff pass. They could have used a bit of common sense, but you don't get that these days with some gatelines I find ime.

I agree with the suggestion that equipping gateline staff at Waterloo East out onto nomansland with a portable ticket machine is a good solution, although now that they allegedly have a TVM there, I don't understand what is so difficult with issuing gateline staff an instruction that people requiring priv tickets to be allowed in and pay at the other end.

I don't see the relevance comparing King's Cross and St Pancras with Waterloo East and Waterloo, which operate very differently barring the fact that they are technically both separate stations, but I can't really be bothered with it because we will just be bogged down by technicalities. I would prefer clearer guidance being issued for situations like this, but I suspect there is more chance of SouthEastern putting a ticket office there than clear guidance happening.

 

[thedbdiboy]

When Southwark first opened there was an LU ticket office in the space between the LU and NR gatelines.

No there wasn't. When Southwark opened there was only an LUL gateline and there were no ticket issuing facilities at all when approaching from the Waterloo East side

 

[Mojo]

No there wasn't. When Southwark opened there was only an LUL gateline and there were no ticket issuing facilities at all.

There has always been a ticket office in the West ticket hall at Southwark. I’m not sure if it closed in the final round of ticket office closures or in previous rounds, but there are pictures of it online from years ago, and you can still tell where it was as unlike most other stations the windows haven’t been blocked off but merely covered with blue vinyls.

You are right in that the NR gateline is a fairly new installation though; maybe some time in 2010?

 

[MikeWh]

You are right in that the NR gateline is a fairly new installation though; maybe some time in 2010?

I'm thinking 2009 ready for the Oyster rollout.

 

[Mojo]

I'm thinking 2009 ready for the Oyster rollout.

Could be right; there was a fairly lengthy period whereby the Southwark LU and Sandell St entrances had a gateline but the entrance from the Mainline station didn’t (this is still the plan shown on the National Rail website). I remember walking through the station from the Mainline station & being surprised that I couldn’t get out, and the gateline staff wouldn’t let me leave the station via that route so in the end I had to walk all the way back to Waterloo.

 

[thedbdiboy]

There has always been a ticket office in the West ticket hall at Southwark. I’m not sure if it closed in the final round of ticket office closures or in previous rounds, but there are pictures of it online from years ago, and you can still tell where it was as unlike most other stations the windows haven’t been blocked off but merely covered with blue vinyls.

You are right in that the NR gateline is a fairly new installation though; maybe some time in 2010?

I've clarified my earlier post to make clear I'm referring to the NR-LUL interchange

 

[Mojo]

I've clarified my earlier post to make clear I'm referring to the NR-LUL interchange

The West ticket hall is the one at the interchange from Waterloo (East) station.

 

[thedbdiboy]

You are right, I had forgotten that there was an LUL ticket window there. No machines though in the early days I'm sure.