TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[rich.davies]

Lloyds are using YY16 YJT an ADL Enviro in dealer white livery on service T3, Lloyds have also registered Arran Road, Dolgellau as an operating centre for 10 vehicles. Does anyone know where they keep the 3 vehicles kept overnight in the Wrexham area?

I saw 2 Lloyds Vehicles parked at the pats coaches garage in Wrexham. One was a coach one was bus.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[WelshBuses93]

Has anyone heard about Lewis' Coaches of Llanrhystud ceasing trading on Friday?

 

[daikilo]

Has anyone heard about Lewis' Coaches of Llanrhystud ceasing trading on Friday?

http://www.lewis-coaches.co.uk/
On their website with an explanation "business issues".

 

[krus_aragon]

Also covered on the BBC website here. They're dropping like flies at the moment...

 

[daikilo]

Also covered on the BBC website here. They're dropping like flies at the moment...

The issue must be why some companies are entering administration when others seem ready to take on many of their routes. In this case, I have difficulty believing the 701 has brought down the entire company so something else must be happening. Maybe just business conditions caused by past revenue insufficiencies, but the welsh authority needs to be pro-active on what it sees as core communication providers rather than wait for the flies to fall before reacting.

 

[adey2011]

The issue must be why some companies are entering administration when others seem ready to take on many of their routes. In this case, I have difficulty believing the 701 has brought down the entire company so something else must be happening. Maybe just business conditions caused by past revenue insufficiencies, but the welsh authority needs to be pro-active on what it sees as core communication providers rather than wait for the flies to fall before reacting.

Lewis operated 30 plus vehicles, they had the 701 service from October 2015 using 2 vehicles, surely in that time had it not made any money they would have pulled the plug. They also operate tendered services 585 and 588 so Ceredigion will need to find new operator/s to start on Saturday.

 

[pemma]

The issue must be why some companies are entering administration when others seem ready to take on many of their routes. In this case, I have difficulty believing the 701 has brought down the entire company so something else must be happening. Maybe just business conditions caused by past revenue insufficiencies, but the welsh authority needs to be pro-active on what it sees as core communication providers rather than wait for the flies to fall before reacting.

I think with council funding cutbacks local authorities are keen to offer contracts to whoever the lowest bidder is opposed to whoever puts the best bid in. Councils are also often seeing a contract as a last resort and are encouraging operators to keep running the service commercially after the contract ends - some make bad decisions doing that like presuming a significant increase in fares accompanied by a less frequent service won't affect passenger numbers as much as it does.
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The 3 Scania's and the Enviro200 are owned by the Welsh Government.

According to Ron's Buses and Coaches blog site those 4 buses are currently in the hands of G E Capital Finance who provided finance allowing those buses to be purchased.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I think with council funding cutbacks local authorities are keen to offer contracts to whoever the lowest bidder is opposed to whoever puts the best bid in. Councils are also often seeing a contract as a last resort and are encouraging operators to keep running the service commercially after the contract ends - some make bad decisions doing that like presuming a significant increase in fares accompanied by a less frequent service won't affect passenger numbers as much as it does.

I can catagorically state that the 701 was continuing to go from strength to strength and was profitable... as for the tendered services (585/588) passenger numbers were also increasing and being as though the contracts were subsidy not cost contracts that means they were making more profit for the company... the fault DEFINITELY lay elsewhere...

what IS a sad indictment of the industry in Wales is that no-one is willing to take the commercial risk (as of yet) to take on the 701...remember when Arriva pulled out of Aber no-one was willing to take on the routes abandoned, waiting for the councils and WAG to take the risk by putting out tenders...

the 701 was always a thorn in the side of the councils and WAG as it proved that their ideas on how to run a long distance service were greatly at variance to what the public actually wanted...

 

[adey2011]

I can catagorically state that the 701 was continuing to go from strength to strength and was profitable... as for the tendered services (585/588) passenger numbers were also increasing and being as though the contracts were subsidy not cost contracts that means they were making more profit for the company... the fault DEFINITELY lay elsewhere...

what IS a sad indictment of the industry in Wales is that no-one is willing to take the commercial risk (as of yet) to take on the 701...remember when Arriva pulled out of Aber no-one was willing to take on the routes abandoned, waiting for the councils and WAG to take the risk by putting out tenders...

the 701 was always a thorn in the side of the councils and WAG as it proved that their ideas on how to run a long distance service were greatly at variance to what the public actually wanted...

The 588 timetable will be operated by Mid Wales Travel whilst the Bwcabus will be operated by Richards, no news yet who will be operating the 585 service.
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The 588 timetable will be operated by Mid Wales Travel whilst the Bwcabus will be operated by Richards, no news yet who will be operating the 585 service.

Lloyds Coaches operating the 585 service this morning using 2 Optare Solo SR's registered YJ14 BCV & YJ14 BCX. Mid Wales Travel operating the 588 service using ADL 200 registered YX62 FWA.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I can catagorically state that the 701 was continuing to go from strength to strength and was profitable... as for the tendered services (585/588) passenger numbers were also increasing and being as though the contracts were subsidy not cost contracts that means they were making more profit for the company... the fault DEFINITELY lay elsewhere...

what IS a sad indictment of the industry in Wales is that no-one is willing to take the commercial risk (as of yet) to take on the 701...remember when Arriva pulled out of Aber no-one was willing to take on the routes abandoned, waiting for the councils and WAG to take the risk by putting out tenders...

the 701 was always a thorn in the side of the councils and WAG as it proved that their ideas on how to run a long distance service were greatly at variance to what the public actually wanted...

So what was the fault? Where does it lay?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

So what was the fault? Where does it lay?

I'm sorry, but out of respect for the owner, who has been a fantastic boss since I transferred over with the 701 I'm not willing to air his dirty laundry on a public forum....

 

[Rhydgaled]

I can catagorically state that the 701 was continuing to go from strength to strength and was profitable... as for the tendered services (585/588) passenger numbers were also increasing and being as though the contracts were subsidy not cost contracts that means they were making more profit for the company... the fault DEFINITELY lay elsewhere...

So what was the fault? Where does it lay?

Speaking generally, rather than with regard to any of the three recently-closed operators in particular, it seems to me that if the local bus services are returning a profit then one or both of the other two areas of business (coach hire/tours and dedicated learner transport) must be to blame.

That said, even if passenger numbers are on the up on the local bus services, it doesn't necessarily follow that profitability is improving. If the operator has a fixed contract with a local authority who provides X amount of subsidy per year but costs (fuel and/or staff wages) have increased over the term of the contract they may be finding that X is no longer sufficient to keep the service profitable.

the 701 was always a thorn in the side of the councils and WAG as it proved that their ideas on how to run a long distance service were greatly at variance to what the public actually wanted...

Have the councils/WAG released any usage stats to show how TrawsCymru is getting on? Sure, it is very different to the 701 but I think the public probably actually want both the 701 and something similar to TrawsCymru (although the latter certainly is far from perfect and I've never tried the 701, I thought about giving it a go once or twice but it has never fit in with what I've been doing (I haven't made a long journey on many of the TrawsCymru services either)).

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

For those interested I have started a facebook group to campaign for the re-instatement of the 701... if anyone wishes to join the group then look up "save the 701" on facebook... I would appreciate any comments regarding your experience of using the service... also if anyone has some pics please contact the group on facebook

 

[quarella]

I passed one of Lewis' 701 liveried coaches being towed on the M4 near Bridgend around 9pm last night. At what must be a very difficult time credit to the company for the quickly placed single clear one page notification on their website.

 

[WelshBuses93]

Has anyone heard on Vosa about a service T6/ T6A between Brecon and Swansea from September?

 

[DaveHarries]

Has anyone heard on Vosa about a service T6/ T6A between Brecon and Swansea from September?

Can't say I have. Where did you get wind of this?

Dave

 

[WelshBuses93]

It was mentioned in the NAT Group Facebook group and online.
http://gov.wales/about/cabinet/decisions/2016-new/jun-sep/transprt/ks5440/?lang=cy

 

[Bwsbro]

TrawsCyrmu T6 Service Launches 12th September

No timetable up yet. However it is believed that the service will operate via Neath Victoria Gardens on a improved timetable like the one they planned when they registered and then cancelled a new X60 Service during the summer, however replaced again with the X63


PG1079161/164 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Brecon Interchange
Finish Point: Ystradgynlais Interchange
Via: Llanfaes, Sennybridge, Craig Y Nos, Ynyswen
Service Number: T6A
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 12-SEP-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday and Sunday Bank Holiday Mondays
PG1079161/165 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Registration Accepted by SN
Starting Point: Ystradgynlais, Interchange
Finish Point: Swansea Bus Station
Via: Crynant, Cefn Coed, Aberdulais, Neath Victoria Gardens
Service Number: T6
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 12-SEP-2016
Other Details: Monday to Saturday, Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays

Other Changes will also be made to the rest of the Swansea Neath Network

PG1079161/115 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Victoria Gardens, Neath and Swansea Bus Station given service number X6 effective from 12-Sep-2016. To amend Route and Timetable.
PG1079161/116 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Variation Accepted: Operating between Victoria Gardens, Neath and Swansea Bus Station given service number 30 effective from 12-Sep-2016. To amend Route and Timetable.
PG1079161/118 - NEW ADVENTURE TRAVEL LTD, N.A.T. HOUSE, COASTER PLACE, CARDIFF, CF10 4XZ
Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Winifred Road, Skewen and Victoria Gardens Neath given service number 41 effective from 12-Sep-2016. To amend Timetable.

 

[DaveHarries]

Interesting. OK thanks for that info.

Dave

 

[backontrack]

Oh. So it appears there is enough demand for a Brecon-Llandovery service :P

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh. So it appears there is enough demand for a Brecon-Llandovery service :P

Sorry but what are you referring to? Is one being introduced?

 

[backontrack]

Sorry but what are you referring to? Is one being introduced?

Oops - I assumed the T6 would go there as it goes via Sennybridge.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oops - I assumed the T6 would go there as it goes via Sennybridge.

I was wondering

The T6 is just a renumbered X63/63, running from Brecon to Senny then via Ystradgynlais.

The Brecon to Llandovery won't come back unless WG underwrite it. This article is quite illuminating. You have people saying how useful and busy it was but the council pulled it yet the same article then reveals how much per passenger the subsidy was http://www.brecon-radnor.co.uk/arti...us service cut&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2016

 

[extendedpaul]

I noted publicity for a £10 TrawsCymru day ticket on buses recently. It made me think about gaps in the network ,

I would propose a new hourly T10 service running from Cardiff to Carmarthen replacing and via the X10 route between Cardiff and Swansea and the X11 Swansea to Carmarthen via Llanelli, replacing one of the two X11s per hour but following a slightly more direct route.

Operated by First it could connect at Swansea with the new T6 to Brecon and at Carmarthen with the T1 to Aberystwyth. The loss of the 701 would be mitigated and Cardiff to Aberystwyth would be possible with just one change of bus.

Could this work ?

 

[daodao]

I noted publicity for a £10 TrawsCymru day ticket on buses recently. It made me think about gaps in the network ,

I would propose a new hourly T10 service running from Cardiff to Carmarthen replacing and via the X10 route between Cardiff and Swansea and the X11 Swansea to Carmarthen via Llanelli, replacing one of the two X11s per hour but following a slightly more direct route.

Operated by First it could connect at Swansea with the new T6 to Brecon and at Carmarthen with the T1 to Aberystwyth. The loss of the 701 would be mitigated and Cardiff to Aberystwyth would be possible with just one change of bus.

Could this work ?

The TrawsCymru bus network is meant to complement the rail network by providing services over key routes that are no longer (or were never) served by rail, other than some duplication on service T2 with the Cambrian coast line, and from Merthyr to Cardiff on T4. There is a perfectly good rail service from Cardiff via Swansea and Llanelli to Carmarthen; all T1 bus journeys call at Carmarthen rail station to provide connections. This is adequate for Cardiff-Aberystwyth journeys, so former competing service 701 is not required either.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

There is a perfectly good rail service from Cardiff via Swansea and Llanelli to Carmarthen; all T1 bus journeys call at Carmarthen rail station to provide connections. This is adequate for Cardiff-Aberystwyth journeys, so former competing service 701 is not required either.

Except for 2 main points

1. in general any forced change of mode/ service tends to have a negative effect... people do not like enforced changes

2. check how much it will cost a person on a concessionary pass to travel on the train from Carmarthen to Cardiff and then compare it to the cost on the 701 (free)... one of the major reasons why the 701 was a success whilst the competing Arriva 20/ X40 struggled was because pass holders travelled on the 701 for free whereas on the 20/ X40 they had to pay to travel south of Carmarthen... NOTHING except a through service from Aber- Cardiff will EVER compensate for the loss of the 701!

 

[extendedpaul]

The TrawsCymru bus network is meant to complement the rail network by providing services over key routes that are no longer (or were never) served by rail, other than some duplication on service T2 with the Cambrian coast line, and from Merthyr to Cardiff on T4. There is a perfectly good rail service from Cardiff via Swansea and Llanelli to Carmarthen; all T1 bus journeys call at Carmarthen rail station to provide connections. This is adequate for Cardiff-Aberystwyth journeys, so former competing service 701 is not required either.

I wasn't suggesting additional services between Cardiff and Carmarthen, just that the X10 and X11 could become part of TrawsCymru based on a precedent being set by the existing 63/X63 becoming T6A and T6 next month.

 

[daodao]

I wasn't suggesting additional services between Cardiff and Carmarthen, just that the X10 and X11 could become part of TrawsCymru based on a precedent being set by the existing 63/X63 becoming T6A and T6 next month.

The TrawsCymru network is facilitated by the WAG and is primarily intended to provide complimentary services to the rail network, not compete with it.

@ Teflonlettuce: "pass holders travelled on the 701 for free"

I am surprised at that, as I thought that coach services were not included in the concessionary pass scheme.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

The TrawsCymru network is facilitated by the WAG and is primarily intended to provide complimentary services to the rail network, not compete with it.

@ Teflonlettuce: "pass holders travelled on the 701 for free"

I am surprised at that, as I thought that coach services were not included in the concessionary pass scheme.

the 701 was included in the scheme because it complied with all the conditions... it was a registered local service and stopped at least once every 15 miles (in fact between Aber and Carmarthen it stopped at ALL stops (and a few gate posts).

 

[carlberry]

I wasn't suggesting additional services between Cardiff and Carmarthen, just that the X10 and X11 could become part of TrawsCymru based on a precedent being set by the existing 63/X63 becoming T6A and T6 next month.

63/X63a are subsidised bus services, the X10 and X11 are commercial services.
If the WAG paid First enough I'm sure they'd be willing to promote them as part of Traws, however they'd compete with the rail service which the WAG prefers to buses.
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Except for 2 main points

1. in general any forced change of mode/ service tends to have a negative effect... people do not like enforced changes

If only somebody would actually put this somewhere in the notes for the courses that transport planners go on, or it could be pointed out to councillors before they suggest brainless bus/rail integration schemes that just turn people off of public transport completely!