Triva - Station with the most number of "first stations" served by it.

[johnnychips]

Ashford is interesting as literally all the high speed stations have avoiding lines. So St Pancras counts as well as Lille Europe and Gare du Nord?

Calais Frethun?

 

[Jonny]

Ashburys only has three in normal service (Ardwick, Gorton and Belle Vue), but that rises to seven with four other possibles (Manchester Victoria, Moston, Ashton-under-Lyne and Denton).

 

[Mag_seven]

Ashford is interesting as literally all the high speed stations have avoiding lines. So St Pancras counts as well as Lille Europe and Gare du Nord?

The lines without platforms at Calais Frethun and Ebbsfleet International are not avoiders as they go through the station (or very close to it) therefore they are the genuine first stations on the High Speed Lines from Ashford. You therefore cannot count Lille, St Pancras or Gare du Nord.

 

[Agent_Squash]

The lines without platforms at Calais Frethun and Ebbsfleet International are not avoiders as they go through the station therefore they are the genuine first stations on the High Speed Lines from Ashford. You therefore cannot count Lille, St Pancras or Gare du Nord.

What station is passed through, though, really? An over bridge of sorts? It’s tricky but I’ll go by your judgement.

Is Fawksham Junction before or after Ebbsfleet?

 

[johnnychips]

A few people haven’t read the original post. As I understand it, the ‘first station’ is one from the one you are talking about which has a scheduled but not necessarily stopping service passing through it. So from Doncaster, for example, Gainsborough Lea Road counts as a timetabled service passes through it (indeed stops there). However, Gainsborough Central wouldn’t: you could drive a train there directly from Doncaster certainly without passing another station but there aren’t any passenger trains. That’s why Denton and Ashburys don’t count from Manchester Vic.

 

[backontrack]

Minor quibble, but southbound out of Tamworth on the WCML would be Atherstone, not Nuneaton . Coming into Tamworth on the same line it would be the one platformed wonder that is Polesworth.

Of course, Atherstone - thank you

 

[backontrack]

Why 'technically'? I would have thought that would have been a disclaimer for Salwick!

This is because there are no platforms at Lostock on the WCML; there used to be, however.

 

[notlob.divad]

I took it to mean how many "first stations" there are on separate physical routes, not how many first stops there are on the services from a station.

For example, Lime Street would then have one first station, Edge Hill, as everything passes it whether it stops or not (in the same way as Vauxhall for London Waterloo as in the original post)

That was my understanding,which wpuld make Liverpool Lime Street as 2. Edge Hill and Liverpool Central.

 

[notlob.divad]

Wigan NW. If we are sticking to first stations actually called at.
Leyland (Fast lines),
Euxton BL (Slows),
Ince,
Bryn,
Warrington BQ,
Manchester Oxford Rd

You can add in Newton-Le-Willows too.

 

[Dr Strider]

brum new st

Five Ways
Smethwick Rolfe St
Hamstead
Duddleston
Water Orton
Adderley Park
Small heath (Trains dont do that now but they have in the past!)
Kings Norton via Kings Heath

or are the last 2 cheating?

I reckon Birmingham New Street has another two "first stations":

Perry Barr (via Soho South and Perry Barr South junctions)
Bournville (via Camp Hill and Lifford Curve)

The Perry Barr route has at least one passenger service per day (possibly only in one direction).
New Street to New Street (via Lifford and Bournville) is a fairly common ECS working I think.

I reckon that gives New Street a total of ten "first stations".

Dr Strider

 

[Cricketer8for9]

If we’re allowed Underground and DLR as well as main line then Stratford must come high. Off the top of my head

Leyton,
Maryland
West Ham
Stratford High Street
Stratford International
Bow Church
Mile End
Hackney Wick
Lea Bridge
Liverpool St

 

[yorksrob]

What station is passed through, though, really? An over bridge of sorts? It’s tricky but I’ll go by your judgement.

Is Fawksham Junction before or after Ebbsfleet?

Before - so Ashford can legitimately claim eight next stops, including Farningham Road !

 

[Mag_seven]

If we’re allowed Underground and DLR

See my OP.

I am including low level platforms but excluding LUL, Metros, Trams etc.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Before - so Ashford can legitimately claim eight next stops, including Farningham Road !

Isn't Fawkham Junction to Southfleet Junction officially disused these days? It's even been used to store withdrawn 373s prior to their bering removed for scrap last year.

 

[yorksrob]

Isn't Fawkham Junction to Southfleet Junction officially disused these days? It's even been used to store withdrawn 373s prior to their bering removed for scrap last year.

I doubt its been formally closed though !

 

[Agent_Squash]

This is because there are no platforms at Lostock on the WCML; there used to be, however.

The no platforms argument has been disallowed for Ashford - why does it not apply for others?

 

[Kite159]

I reckon Birmingham New Street has another two "first stations":

Perry Barr (via Soho South and Perry Barr South junctions)
Bournville (via Camp Hill and Lifford Curve)

The Perry Barr route has at least one passenger service per day (possibly only in one direction).
New Street to New Street (via Lifford and Bournville) is a fairly common ECS working I think.

I reckon that gives New Street a total of ten "first stations".

Dr Strider

There is one late night XC service which is booked to via Perry Barr (21:45 Reading - New Street), plus WMT have put on kickball specials to Witton in the past (not sure if they still do, or the routing as the 323 used to go round in a circle so might have only used that curve ECS)

 

[Jonny]

The no platforms argument has been disallowed for Ashford - why does it not apply for others?

In some cases, moves 'through' a station area to another station cannot make calls at the first station, (e.g. Salford Crescent for trains between Manchester Victoria and either Eccles or Deansgate due to the platforms being decomissioned).

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The no platforms argument has been disallowed for Ashford - why does it not apply for others?

I've got somewhat lost by the intricacies of this sub-argument, and it's up to Mag_seven as the OP to adjudicate, but it seems to me that the issue hinges on whether the fast lines pass through a station. In other words, even if there are no platforms on fast lines, do they run inside the station boundary . In the case of Ashford, it was proposed that we allow Stratford International as a first destination because fast lines miss out platforms at Ebbsfleet. However, a look at Google maps shows that those fast lines run beneath the ticket office to straddle either side of the platforms. Hence the fast lines do pass through Ebbsfleet station (in the sense that they run inside the station boundaries). Therefore you can't allow anything beyond Ebbsfleet as a first station for Ashford. Again from Google maps, a similar argument applies to Calais Fréthun, so no stations beyond there allowed.

Accordingly, I'd say DanNCL was correct about Ashford International:

Ashford International has 7: Pluckley, Charing, Westenhanger, Wye, Ham Street, Ebbsfleet International and Calais Frethun.

(I would disallow Yorksrob's suggestion of Farningham Road because - as far as I'm aware - no regular scheduled passenger trains run on the old connection to HS1)

 

[scrapy]

Manchester Victoria:

Deansgate
Eccles
Salford Central
Salford Crescent (via Chat Moss lines / Ordsall Lane)
Moston
Ashton under Lyne
Denton
Ashburys

If you're allowing Ashburys by use of a freight only line then you should also allow Gorton as it is possible to go round the back of the platforms at Ashburys without passing through the station.

 

[scrapy]

Man Vic has 7
Moston, (down fast,) Ashton u Lyme, down slow) Manchester Piccadilly via Ashbury's (technically ECS only) deansgate via the chord, Salford Central,- (down Salford,) Salford crescent via ordsall lane, Eccles via chat moss.

All possible first stops.

It is not possible to get to Man Picc without going all the way from Ashburys to Guide Bridge and shunting. At which point you will have passed through 4 other stations twice plus Ardwick once.

 

[scrapy]

In some cases, moves 'through' a station area to another station cannot make calls at the first station, (e.g. Salford Crescent for trains between Manchester Victoria and either Eccles or Deansgate due to the platforms being decomissioned).

I don't believe there have ever been any platforms at Salford Central towards Eccles or Deansgate. The lines have been moved over when Ordsall Chord was built towards Deansgate and now run through where the disused platforms were when it was originally 4 tracked towards Windsor Bridge (where Salford Crescent is now).

 

[bionic]

Going back to previous posts (too many to quote)... can anyone top London Bridge's ten?

Waterloo East
Cannon Street
Blackfriars
Deptford
New Cross
Lewisham
Ladywell
Hither Green
New Cross Gate
South Bermomdsey

(It's already been discussed that the up and down fast lines avoid platforms at New Cross and St Johns).

 

[bionic]

As an aside, I doubt it can match London Bridge but it's occurred to me that Victoria has more possibles than first meets the eye:

Brixton
Denmark Hill
Elephant & Castle (via Canterbury Road)
Wandsworth Road (via Stewart's Lane)
Clapham High Street (via Chatham lines and Voltaire Road Junction)
Battersea Park
Clapham Junction.....

Its possible there's more but my knowledge of possible routes and lines around Clapham Junction is poor. Could a train get through the middle at Clapham Jn without passing a platform? If so it opens up more "first stations". Is Imperial Wharf doable? Am I even right in thinking Clapham Junction is accessible as first stop from Vic via Stewart's Lane and the Battersea reversible? I never signed over that side so apologies for ignorance.

 

[driver_m]

Going back to previous posts (too many to quote)... can anyone top London Bridge's ten?

Waterloo East
Cannon Street
Blackfriars
Deptford
New Cross
Lewisham
Ladywell
Hither Green
New Cross Gate
South Bermomdsey

(It's already been discussed that the up and down fast lines avoid platforms at New Cross and St Johns).

As has already been said earlier. New St has 10 as well and doesn't need to do any fast slow line trickery.

 

[MK Tom]

A couple local to me:

Watford Junction, 4 - Watford High Street, Bushey, Watford North and Kings Langley
Rugby, 4 - Long Buckby, Wolverton, Coventry and Nuneaton
Coventry, 4 - Rugby, Kenilworth (finally), Canley and Coventry Arena

Princes Risborough has Saunderton, Monks Risborough and Haddenham & Thame Parkway along with Chinnor on the newly opened preserved connection (or Wainhill/Bledlow if you count those).

Leicester is a funny one as I'm not quite sure you pass 'through' Syston heading towards Loughborough.

 

[Eccles1983]

It is not possible to get to Man Picc without going all the way from Ashburys to Guide Bridge and shunting. At which point you will have passed through 4 other stations twice plus Ardwick once.

It is.

You can get to the back platform from ashburys, change ends and take the departure/arrivals road to ardwick, bang road into to up platform and then into the throat.

 

[Kite159]

As an aside, I doubt it can match London Bridge but it's occurred to me that Victoria has more possibles than first meets the eye:

Brixton
Denmark Hill
Elephant & Castle (via Canterbury Road)
Wandsworth Road (via Stewart's Lane)
Clapham High Street (via Chatham lines and Voltaire Road Junction)
Battersea Park
Clapham Junction.....

Its possible there's more but my knowledge of possible routes and lines around Clapham Junction is poor. Could a train get through the middle at Clapham Jn without passing a platform? If so it opens up more "first stations". Is Imperial Wharf doable? Am I even right in thinking Clapham Junction is accessible as first stop from Vic via Stewart's Lane and the Battersea reversible? I never signed over that side so apologies for ignorance.

I would discount Clapham Junction as the trains pass Battersea Park, which IIRC has a platform face on the Clapham bound fast line.

And IIRC you can reach Imperial Wharf from Victoria, although there are no booked services that way

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Although leaving via the empty carriage line does not involve passing that face. While formerly very much an ECS Line it is now used on a more regular basis, esp in the down direction.

 

[bionic]

Can't you get there via Stewart's Lane without bypassing Battersea Park platforms?