Trivia: Settlements that perhaps should be in a different local authority

[Bald Rick]

That's the second time you've said that

I going full Trump on this; say it enough and it might happen!

 

[AY1975]

Some of the villages that are just on the Amber Valley side of the Amber Valley/Derbyshire Dales boundary, such as Crich and Holloway, have Matlock as their postal town and thus probably tend to look towards Matlock, which is in Derbyshire Dales (indeed it is the administrative centre of both Derbyshire County and Derbyshire Dales District councils), rather than towards the Amber Valley towns such as Alfreton, Belper and Ripley, and as such it might make more sense for them to come under Derbyshire Dales rather than Amber Valley.

I suppose district/borough boundaries within a larger county (for those areas that still have the traditional two-tier system and have not (yet) changed to unitary authorities) are fairly trivial compared to actual county boundaries, though, especially as there are also a lot of villages and hamlets that are on one side of a county boundary when their postal town is on the other side, so the address is Village X, Town Y, County B even though Village X is actually in County A.

 

[urbophile]

Some of the villages that are just on the Amber Valley side of the Amber Valley/Derbyshire Dales boundary, such as Crich and Holloway, have Matlock as their postal town and thus probably tend to look towards Matlock, which is in Derbyshire Dales (indeed it is the administrative centre of both Derbyshire County and Derbyshire Dales District councils), rather than towards the Amber Valley towns such as Alfreton, Belper and Ripley, and as such it might make more sense for them to come under Derbyshire Dales rather than Amber Valley.

I suppose district/borough boundaries within a larger county (for those areas that still have the traditional two-tier system and have not (yet) changed to unitary authorities) are fairly trivial compared to actual county boundaries, though, especially as there are also a lot of villages and hamlets that are on one side of a county boundary when their postal town is on the other side, so the address is Village X, Town Y, County B even though Village X is actually in County A.

I think there always used to be towns that were actually in one county that were placed in another simply for postal purposes. Since the reorganisation (continual) of county boundaries this would make even less sense, except that since the introduction of postcodes (in the dim and distant past) you no longer need to include a county name in the postal address.

 

[D6130]

I think there always used to be towns that were actually in one county that were placed in another simply for postal purposes. Since the reorganisation (continual) of county boundaries this would make even less sense, except that since the introduction of postcodes (in the dim and distant past) you no longer need to include a county name in the postal address.

Indeed. Todmorden is a good example. It is situated in Calderdale Metropolitan Borough - in the ceremonial county of West Yorkshire - but has an OL (Oldham, Greater Manchester) postcode....and - incidentally - a Rochdale (Greater Manchester) telephone dialling prefix.

 

[urbophile]

Indeed. Todmorden is a good example. It is situated in Calderdale Metropolitan Borough - in the ceremonial county of West Yorkshire - but has an OL (Oldham, Greater Manchester) postcode....and - incidentally - a Rochdale (Greater Manchester) telephone dialling prefix.

Tod's allus been odd.

 

[Dai Corner]

A more extreme example is Aberystwyth on the west coast of Wales which has SY (Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England) postcodes. When the railways carried most long distance mail that for mid Wales would have gone via Shrewsbury.

Remember that postcodes are routing tables for mail, not a geographic database.

 

[Farigiraf]

Saffron Walden (Audley End), Newmarket and Mildenhall all lean towards Cambridgeshire despite being in seperate counties - All have regular buses (and 2/3 rail) into Cambs but less so to their own big towns/county towns, and mostly commute to work into Cambridge/Ely. Newmarket in particular is a strange one as the station before it (Dullingham) and after it (Kennett/Kentford) are in Cambs while Newmarket falls into Suffolk.
To some extent you could also say Haverhill, Sandy/Biggleswade and Downham Market/Kings Lynn look towards Cambridgeshire, with transport links and work flows

 

[Howardh]

When the southern part of Lancashire was split up to create Merseyside and Greater Manchester, it separated Wigan, St Helens, Leigh, Widnes and Warrington, which have more in common with each other than with Liverpool or Manchester. Wigan and Leigh ended up in GM, St Helens in Merseyside and Warrington and Widnes were attached to Cheshire because there was nowhere else for them to go.

Similarly, I currently live near the West/North Yorkshire border where you have a chain of small towns allocated to different authorities- Skipton (Craven, now NY), Ilkley (Bradford), Otley and Wetherby (Leeds). The last three all have outlying estates which cross into North Yorkshire, which caused fun during the tiers phase of Covid when people in the same cul de sac were subject to different restrictions from their neighbours.

Playing hockey in Leigh for many years, I note they feel far more Bolton than Wigan!
And that's Bolton, Lancashire, so they feel double duped!!!!

 

[swt_passenger]

Ashington, Felton, Alnwick, and Amble to be moved into Scottish Borders council area, to avoid the huge cost of having to correct recent DFT announcements.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

I was surprised to learn that it was once proposed, in the 1970s, to move most of western Hampshire into Dorset however this was dropped that this only applied to Bournemouth & Christchurch as happened in 1974.

This would have meant the entire New Forest being in Dorset and the SW England region. I'm trying to imagine Dorset bordering Southampton city!

If the above had occurred, Dorset by now probably would have 3 unitaries instead of the current 2 (urban & rural) - western Dorset, Bournemouth & Poole, eastern Dorset covering ex-East Dorset district, ex-Christchurch borough and Hampshire's New Forest district.

 

[Magdalia]

Newmarket in particular is a strange one as the station before it (Dullingham) and after it (Kennett/Kentford) are in Cambs while Newmarket falls into Suffolk.

That also happens with Royston, which is in Hertfordshire, though Meldreth and Ashwell are both in Cambridgeshire.

 

[Farigiraf]

That also happens with Royston, which is in Hertfordshire, though Meldreth and Ashwell are both in Cambridgeshire.

The town of Ashwell is in Hertfordshire, while the Mordens (Steeple Morden and Guilden Morden) are in Cambs. The station is on the border but mostly in Cambridgeshire.

 

[urbophile]

Playing hockey in Leigh for many years, I note they feel far more Bolton than Wigan!
And that's Bolton, Lancashire, so they feel double duped!!!!

Bolton is in Greater Manchester surely? Even if the (unnecessary) postal county isn't.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

The Newmarket example is a strange & interesting one. I don't get how some small towns are split between different authorities - though understandable if between urban councils such as Rotherham/Sheffield or national borders like England/Wales - when they may as well group the whole town under one authority?

This could bring unwelcome results such as postcode lottery, one person can't get something as they live in Cambs while their next door neighbour can as they come under Suffolk.

 

[Some guy]

Tod's allus been odd.

Back when it was in the old Lancashire half the town was in Lancashire and the other half in the west riding of Yorkshire. One street divided the 2 counties

 

[Bevan Price]

Bolton is in Greater Manchester surely? Even if the (unnecessary) postal county isn't.

Some might say that it is the likes of "Greater Manchester" and "Merseyside" are unnecessary....

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Just as well Royal Mail no longer requires postal counties only the towns. I wouldn't know whether to use for let's say Grimsby - Humberside or Lincolnshire or North Lindsey or North East Lincolnshire!

 

[urbophile]

Some might say that it is the likes of "Greater Manchester" and "Merseyside" are unnecessary....

Well they are now. But the old county boundaries were nonsense and even more nonsensical for the PO to retain them when they changed.

 

[Simon75]

In Essex Southend and Thurrock unity authorities merge with Basildon , to create Thamesway unity authority

 

[Howardh]

Bolton is in Greater Manchester surely? Even if the (unnecessary) postal county isn't.

Yes it is, but we still consider ourselves in Lancashire, the Other Place is merely an administrative region and should have been called South Lancashire anyway!!

 

[THC]

In Essex Southend and Thurrock unity authorities merge with Basildon , to create Thamesway unity authority

What about Castle Point? The good burghers of Benfleet may have something to say about your idea!

I'm a senior officer at one of those councils and while local government reorganisation isn't on the agenda at the moment we're always conscious that it might resurface at any time.

THC

 

[davehsug]

Yes it is, but we still consider ourselves in Lancashire, the Other Place is merely an administrative region and should have been called South Lancashire anyway!!

That might have upset the good burghers of Stockport, Altrincham, Sale etc!

 

[THC]

Yes it is, but we still consider ourselves in Lancashire, the Other Place is merely an administrative region and should have been called South Lancashire anyway!!

When constituted as a metropolitan county - the forerunner of today's Mayoral combined authority - Greater Manchester was originally known as SELNEC, or South East Lancashire and North East Cheshire.

THC

 

[alex397]

I’ve always thought that the Loughton, Debden and Buckhurst Hill areas in Essex probably should be in Greater London. They feel like a London suburb, has TfL buses and an LU line (which I’ve always thought seemed odd having small tube trains going along a line that’s more like an S-Bahn line), and until relatively recently were part of the Metropolitan Police area.
The border between Buckhurst Hill in Essex and Woodford, which is part of the London Borough of Redbridge (although many locals still seem to think it’s in Essex, or like to pretend it is) is barely noticeable as the houses stay the same.
(Although that’s probably nothing compared to the borders in Netherlands/Belgium/France where international borders have the same line of houses!)

 

[Howardh]

When constituted as a metropolitan county - the forerunner of today's Mayoral combined authority - Greater Manchester was originally known as SELNEC, or South East Lancashire and North East Cheshire.

THC

Yes it was and it was on the side of the buses!

 

[Simon75]

What about Castle Point? The good burghers of Benfleet may have something to say about your idea!

I'm a senior officer at one of those councils and while local government reorganisation isn't on the agenda at the moment we're always conscious that it might resurface at any time.

THC

I forgot about Castle Point, you could include that aswell.
Especially with the financial problems with Thurrock

 

[Djgr]

A more extreme example is Aberystwyth on the west coast of Wales which has SY (Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England) postcodes. When the railways carried most long distance mail that for mid Wales would have gone via Shrewsbury.

Remember that postcodes are routing tables for mail, not a geographic database.

CH crosses England and Wales, although arguably as an urban conurbation so does Chester.

Some might say that it is the likes of "Greater Manchester" and "Merseyside" are unnecessary....

As a county council, Merseyside only existed for 12 years and was abolished 37 years ago.

I'm not sure that any residents of this former administrative county would principally describe themselves as coming from there.

There was some rejoicing when all Wirral postcodes were transferred from L to CH!

 

[Dai Corner]

As a county council, Merseyside only existed for 12 years and was abolished 37 years ago.

I'm not sure that any residents of this former administrative county would principally describe themselves as coming from there.

A now sadly deceased contributor to the UK.railway Usenet group used to give his location as something like 'Earlestown, in the occupied territories of south west Lancashire'.

 

[ian1944]

Yes it is, but we still consider ourselves in Lancashire, the Other Place is merely an administrative region and should have been called South Lancashire anyway!!

Pity then that your university is going to rename itself as the other place.

 

[urbophile]

CH crosses England and Wales, although arguably as an urban conurbation so does Chester.


As a county council, Merseyside only existed for 12 years and was abolished 37 years ago.

I'm not sure that any residents of this former administrative county would principally describe themselves as coming from there.

There was some rejoicing when all (North) Wirral postcodes were transferred from L to CH!

I don't understand this parochialism. Wirral only exists (except as an unpopulated wilderness, as in Sir Gawain and the Green Knight) because of its proximity to and dependence upon Liverpool. Similarly for the rest of Merseyside as was. And Liverpool has never been culturally Lancashire unless you go far back in history. (Incidentally I think Merseyside still exists as a ceremonial county - it has a Lord Lieutenant or did until recently).