Trouble on the train - would you give a statement?

[Flamingo]

Following on from an incident tonight where an assault on train-crew took place on a train, but the majority of witnesses refused to give details to enable BTP to pursue statements, I'm curious as to how many members on here would not want to get involved if asked to give contact details for possible contact from BTP

(The well-dressed middle-aged female who was best placed to witness the incident seemed highly amused at even being asked - and point-blank refused.)

 

[TheJRB]

I would absolutely be willing to give information if I was a witness to an incident. It's a matter of principle and I think it's ridiculous that people would be unwilling. I get why people wouldn't want to get involved and would rather forget about it, but to wash your hands of what is just shy of a responsibility is something I don't get (and to be honest I would think less of people who were not willing to help out a victim of assault and help get justice).

 

[user15681]

I was involved in an incident last night actually (not railway or BTP related, but local police), where they asked for my details and I was happy to provide. I should imagine some people would prefer to not get involved, though, but I for one would have no problems if I witnessed or was involved in something on the railway.

(It's worth noting though that as psychologists, we've found quite a disparity between what people say they will do and then what they actually do in the situation. People might like to think they'd provide details, but may not in the moment.)

 

[Techniquest]

I would be willing to give details, without any doubt. Not quite on the same level as the OP, admittedly, but as a fellow service industry employee I would like to think we'd all do the same in such a situation! Look after your own, so to speak...

 

[HYPODERMIC]

Following on from an incident tonight where an assault on train-crew took place on a train, but the majority of witnesses refused to give details to enable BTP to pursue statements, I'm curious as to how many members on here would not want to get involved if asked to give contact details for possible contact from BTP

(The well-dressed middle-aged female who was best placed to witness the incident seemed highly amused at even being asked - and point-blank refused.)

Forgive me, because thankfully I've never been witness to any kind of incident like this, but I genuinely don't understand why the majority of witnesses would refuse to aid an investigation into an assault on a member of railway staff.

I'm stunned that the majority of witnesses would wash their hands of something so clearly unacceptable! I had no idea this was common. Maybe I'm naive, but if I saw something like that I'd be first in line to try and see justice done.

Am I missing something obvious here? Why do so many people choose not to help the police catch a criminal?

The only thing I can think of is if perhaps it was a particularly abrasive guard who antagonised passengers to such a degree that they felt a physical assault was coming to him anyway. But it sounds like this is a frequent sort of response.

 

[scotsman]

I imagine it's because it was likely TOC employees that were asking for statements? Not sure if this was the case, apologies if not.) People don't ever like to 'take sides' in things they aren't directly involved in.

Yes, in short, I would. I was in court earlier this year as witness in a case over offensive behaviour on a train I was traveling on in 2012.

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately I think it's difficult to say.

People's judgement in situations like this can be affected by a combination of adrenalin and The Bystander Effect, among other things. It also depends how involved they were and the nature of the incident!

I'd like to think I'd be happy to provide a witness statement and all, but a particularly morbid thought occurred to me recently while watching a tit on a skateboard flipping it around with his feet perilously close to the platform edge just a few meters down the line in front of me only moments before I knew a fast train was due to pass the platform. I thought to myself "If he falls down there just in front of this train he will die and I'll probably be splattered with the 'debris'." - now I can't even begin to imagine how I might feel in this particular (extreme) situation. I admit this is perhaps rather unlike the one flamingo has in mind, but nevertheless. I'm sorry if it's too much, I did say it was morbid! How depressing. Bad things happen in the world.

 

[Johnny_w]

in a relaxed environment whilst enjoying one's breakfast and staring another week square in the eyes.... of course I'd give my details.

In an actual situation with high drama, emotion and adrenaline? Who knows.

I voted how I'd like to think i would act.

JW

 

[jamesst]

Yep have done before and always will do

 

[Mike395]

Yes - I absolutely would.... even in the heat of the moment, unless I'd witnessed something particularly traumatic (and hopefully even if I had!) I can't see myself not giving police or TOC staff my details on request.

Just as an aside - I'm not sure this poll will be representative sadly - most people reading this will likely have at least a mild interest in railways and thus are more likely to feel an active responsibility to help out.

 

[DarloRich]

Absolutely. Without question. 100%. It is your duty and responsibility as a decent citizen TO offer a statement. Otherwise you simply condone the bad behaviour and give tacit approval!

As an aside I take the 100% response on the poll so far with a large bag of salt. Look at the number of threads where posters are to frightened to confront bad behaviour they come across in life yet these same people will offer a statement to the police on sight of a violent physical assault?

 

[crispy1978]

I probably would if it was a member of staff. If it was two groups of drunken louts, then probably not.

 

[richw]

Depends on the incident.

In the situation provided yes I would offer where an innocent person is the victim.

If it was two drunk/drugged up yobs I probably wouldn't.

 

[Hadders]

I've given my details to the police when I've witnessed incidents in the past.

The thing is you can bet that the people who refuse to give their details are the types who, if they were a victim in similar circumstances, would go running to the Daily Hate about how bad it is that no-one would help the police.

 

[infobleep]

I might give a statement but I'd be slightly concerned in case someone came after me. Perhaps that's due to media reading perception. I. E. Nothing would happen but you feel it might.

Could the police be given powers to force a statement and if nothing forthcoming, arrest the person? I'm talking off the top of my head here.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[BestWestern]

As an aside I take the 100% response on the poll so far with a large bag of salt. Look at the number of threads where posters are to frightened to confront bad behaviour they come across in life yet these same people will offer a statement to the police on sight of a violent physical assault?

Offering a statement after an event has taken place is rather different to wading in while it's in full swing, and carries significantly less personal risk.

I agree though, many people will act differently 'on the day'.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I might give a statement but I'd be slightly concerned in case someone came after me. Perhaps that's due to media reading perception. I. E. Nothing would happen but you feel it might.

Could the police be given powers to force a statement and if nothing forthcoming, arrest the person? I'm talking off the top of my head here.

Presumably not, considering how frequently cases fail due to lack of willing cooperation. I would imagine evidence forcibly gleaned by detaining a non-suspect would be viewed as highly unreliable.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Absolutely. Without question. 100%. It is your duty and responsibility as a decent citizen TO offer a statement. Otherwise you simply condone the bad behaviour and give tacit approval!

I would do it, and have done it before in similar situations (saw man behaving strangely by side of road, read the next day he'd been killed by a HGV). Having worked in the law for years I've been inside enough courtrooms to know how it works, and I wouldn't be fazed at all.

But I'm not quite so quick to judge others who won't. Intelligent people will know that giving a statement could cause massive inconvenience- having to present evidence in court is time-consuming and your loss of a day's income is not recompensed.

Could the police be given powers to force a statement and if nothing forthcoming, arrest the person? I'm talking off the top of my head here.

Some of those powers already exist: if someone is named as a witness in criminal proceedings and they don't turn up, the Court can issue a Warrant for their arrest. It's not a popular move and very risky, as if you drag them into court against their will their evidence may well not be helpful.

 

[chris89]

As many others.

Yes i would.

Chris

 

[3141]

I think the suggestion that police should have powers to arrest a witness who declines to give his details is unrealistic and potentially counter-productive. People unwilling to be formal witnesses would look the other way at an earlier stage in the proceedings. If the police already have their hands full as a result of the incident itself they won't want to be arresting uncooperative bystanders as well.

Looking at another aspect of this topic, I suspect that if a railway employee might be considered to have acted aggressively or provocatively, then it's possible that more of the witnesses would be willing to provide their details - for example, that woman described by the OP.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Forcing a statement would be inadmissible as evidence anyway. It would be far too open to bias and corruption. You can't disprove someone saying they didn't see what happened or can't remember the face anyway.

 

[Polarbear]

I would provide a statement without question. It's tough enough for those people working on the front line as it is without the public being unsupportive when something does kick off.

I have not had to provide details for any railway related incident in recent times, but I was on a bus a few weeks back that was involved in an accident. Although the bus was full as it left Birkenhead bus station, only myself and one other person could be bothered to provide a statement to the police regarding what happened.

So that's around 40 or so people that, for various reasons best known to themselves, could not or would not provide assistance. :roll:

 

[talltim]

Of course, and not just in railway related matters. The only time I might have to stop and think about whether I should is if I knew the person and was fearful of later revenge.

 

[t_star2001uk]

I have given statements on numerous occasions when i have witnessed incidents against members of staff on my own company and that of others

Could the police be given powers to force a statement and if nothing forthcoming, arrest the person? I'm talking off the top of my head here.

AFAIK No they can't.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Yes, I have done before and I would again.

 

[overtonchris]

I'd definitely give a statement without question. How anyone can just turn away and pretend they haven't seen anything is both cowardly, probably lazy and totally wrong (unless the person being assaulted had kicked off first in some way and clearly had it coming).

I only mention the bit in parenthesis is because I was assaulted at Tamworth station some 20 years ago whilst minding my own business waiting for a train. The fellow in question got more that he bargained for from a short bespectacled guy in a suit with a brief case - namely a badly split lip and probably 2 swollen fruits. I was pretty shaken up to be honest and asked a bloke on the station where the nearest police station was. He'd seen the "incident". His reply was "I wouldn't bother with that mate - that bloke will just pull the race card (he was of African appearance) and you'll be the one in court even though he hit you first..... and just don't involve me". He then got as far away from me as quickly as possible. I was a little surprised at his attitude to say the least...didn't ask if I was ok or anything and I had received a half decent punch to the side of my head.

I got the next train away from there in some despair. Never been back there and probably never will. Still makes me a little annoyed even now.

 

[cf111]

I've made a statement to both BTP and TOC staff after a (false) accusation of theft was made against one the hospitality staff by a passenger. Not quite in the same league as an assault, but I don't think I'd have any qualms doing so again in the position. I like to think that if I was the one on the receiving end then anyone present would be happy to assist the police.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have given my contact details in the past but I was not contacted (some drunk dickhead got a bloody nose due to trying to hit a woman)

 

[meridian2]

Following on from an incident tonight where an assault on train-crew took place on a train, but the majority of witnesses refused to give details to enable BTP to pursue statements, I'm curious as to how many members on here would not want to get involved if asked to give contact details for possible contact from BTP

(The well-dressed middle-aged female who was best placed to witness the incident seemed highly amused at even being asked - and point-blank refused.)

Easy to say yes when you're sitting comfortably behind a computer in your home/office.

The cold reality is totally different for each and every situation. How can you possibly hope to get a realistic answer for this poll?

Not everyone who says no is an out-and-out 'coward'.

 

[Greenback]

Easy to say yes when you're sitting comfortably behind a computer in your home/office.

The cold reality is totally different for each and every situation. How can you possibly hope to get a realistic answer for this poll?

Not everyone who says no is an out-and-out 'coward'.

Of course reality is different to a poll on a website, that doesn't really need saying. The fact is, that this is a poll that has sparked a good discussion, regardless of whether you think the answers are realistic or not.

That said, I agree that not everyone who does not want to be a witness is a coward. There are many reasons that I can think of why someone would not want to come forward and give their details, or even refuse to co-operate if asked.

Maybe they didn't actually see anything useful. Maybe they feel that they might be asked to take time off from work to assist in an investigation and then give evidence, and they cannot afford to do this. Maybe they should not have been in that place at that time, so don't want any publicity. Maybe they don't think the matter was serious enough to warrant it.

There could be many more good or bad reasons why people don't want to get involved. It would all depend on the actual circumstances. Maybe one or two are scared to, but that's far from the only reason.

 

[DarloRich]

Without wishing to derail the thread…………

But I'm not quite so quick to judge others who won't. Intelligent people will know that giving a statement could cause massive inconvenience- having to present evidence in court is time-consuming and your loss of a day's income is not recompensed.

I find that a poor excuse I am afraid - is the inconvenience of the witness not immaterial when considered against the inconvenience of the victim?

Easy to say yes when you're sitting comfortably behind a computer in your home/office.

The cold reality is totally different for each and every situation. How can you possibly hope to get a realistic answer for this poll?

Not everyone who says no is an out-and-out 'coward'.

Whilst I won’t call them cowards they are shirking their responsibilities. Also by failing to support the justice process they are undermining the confidence in the system and preventing justice from being done and from it being seen to be done. By not taking part they are, essentially, saying that the crime they have witnessed is acceptable and not worth their time and effort in trying to correct. The next time it might them on the receiving end!

Depends on the incident.

In the situation provided yes I would offer where an innocent person is the victim.

If it was two drunk/drugged up yobs I probably wouldn't.

Using the above quote as an example and not a personal attack - I don’t understand this view. Is a crime not a crime regardless of victim & perpetrator? Is it ok not to take part of you don’t think the victim is a decent chap? How do you now the drunken victim isn’t a decent, fine, upstanding chap who went for night out to celebrate the birth of his first child and has been the victim of a vicious unprovoked attack?

To me it doesn’t matter if the victim is a colleague or not. The fact they are a victim of a crime is all that matters.

(God that does sound pompous!)