Two of the busiest lines shut

[Metroland]

Tens of thousands of train passengers are facing disruption to their journeys after engineering work on the West Coast Mainline continued to overrun.

Network Rail apologised for the delay to the work at Rugby, which means the line being shut between Birmingham or Coventry stations, and Northampton.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7167073.stm


Liverpool Street railway station has not reopened as planned after engineering work overran.

Commuters are being urged not to use the station and tickets are being accepted on buses and the underground.

One Railway, which runs many services to the station from the eastern region, are starting and stopping at Stratford, Tottenham Hale, Seven Sisters or Hackney Downs.

The closure will affect hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom are returning to work after the Christmas and New Year break.

About 123 million people use the station every year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7167413.stm

 

[pedned]

AFAIK theres still trains off Birimingham to Coventry, then theyre bus replacements... To Northampton

 

[Max]

I booked my tickets well in advance to get a train back to work in London on the 2nd of Jan. This has meant having to take a day as holiday but I felt this would be necessary at the time in order to avoid the usual nightmare of having to travel back from Carlisle on the 1st of Jan. However it looks like it was a waste of a days holiday. It is all well and good that Virgin advise people to travel via alternate destinations however I have no option as I cannot afford a new ticket and apparently the other train operators will not accept the value advance ticket which I purchased, meaning I'm being punished for having bought my ticket well in advance.
Michael Wood, Carlisle, Cumbria

A planned break to London with the kids (to see a show etc) is now disrupted. On deciding to use the train I pre-booked my tickets three months ago (but was not guaranteed a seat). The journey was meant to be 1hr 40 mins but becomes a 45 min train journey, an 1 hr 30 mins bus journey followed by a 1 hr 30 mins train journey (although this is subject to delays). On applying for a refund I am told it takes up to 21 days (it only took five minutes to take the payment) and is subject to a £10 admin fee. I am now taking the car and the kids ask why?
Adrian, Lichfield, UK

This seems strange - why would Virgin be advising people to use alternative routes if their tickets aren't valid? In these circumstances, isn't it normal for the other TOCs to accept all tickets? These events are only going to put people off the railway as a whole, not just because of the problems, but also because there is nothing in place to guarentee people a decent service or a refund when things go wrong. Sadly, this is one of the fundamental problems of a privatised railway - no incentives for the TOCs to work together when things go pear shaped.

You have to feel sorry for Virgin. This kind of thing makes them look terrible, when it really isn't their fault.

 

[Metroland]

Looks line the WCML will be shut until the weekend from the latest news.

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

Max: Simple answer, it isn't a planned closure. Notwork Fail's possessions were due to finish overnight last night and hence Virgin were expecting to be able to run a normal service today. It's really up to them to come to an agreement with other TOCs regarding validity over alternative routes for AP tickets. All other ticket holders will be fine (albeit suffering a longer journey)

 

[me123]

I saw on Chiltern's website that they were accepting Virgin tiakets from Birmingham to London. There is an incentive for them. If they can show a better service then Virgin, they can steal customers from the competition.

 

[Jord]

I saw on Chiltern's website that they were accepting Virgin tiakets from Birmingham to London. There is an incentive for them. If they can show a better service then Virgin, they can steal customers from the competition.

But going on Chiltern is longer, not a good thing for commuters

 

[Max]

Max: Simple answer, it isn't a planned closure. Notwork Fail's possessions were due to finish overnight last night and hence Virgin were expecting to be able to run a normal service today. It's really up to them to come to an agreement with other TOCs regarding validity over alternative routes for AP tickets. All other ticket holders will be fine (albeit suffering a longer journey)

Yes, that is a simple answer, but it in no way answers what I am saying! Virgin, in fact all the TOCs, should have back-up plans in case this kind of thing happens. It's all very well moaning about Network Rail, but we all know how unreliable subcontractors can be, and Virgin in particular should know that things don't always go to plan. These plans should already be drawn out in case something goes wrong, then there wouldn't be these huge problems!

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

Ah, i see where you're coming from Max! If only back up plans like that were part of the original franchise agreement. There isn't much incentive for the companies otherwise. For example, in this situation, to the general member of the public Virgin can explain that NR are entirely to blame, and as such lose little credit. If they were to come up with contingency plans for every set of engineering works (eg. organising shuttle buses / actually conversing with other TOCs) requires effort that they obviously deem not to be worthile. Doesn't mean it's right though of course...

 

[The Snap]

http://nationalrail.co.uk/service_bulletins/2fbb279e0a04000200df9a4c7e1c3e28.html

 

[Metroland]

Yes, that is a simple answer, but it in no way answers what I am saying! Virgin, in fact all the TOCs, should have back-up plans in case this kind of thing happens. It's all very well moaning about Network Rail, but we all know how unreliable subcontractors can be, and Virgin in particular should know that things don't always go to plan. These plans should already be drawn out in case something goes wrong, then there wouldn't be these huge problems!

I think they do have contingency plans, of sorts. Fact is no contingency plan is going to be 100% satisfactory. They were saying there was a coach running very 5 minutes from Birmingham to Northampton, but that only amounts to one Pendolino per hour on a line that normally sees 2 plus many commuter trains as well as freight. Then there's the stuff coming from the Trent valley on top of that. So they probably have 80-100 coaches doing shuttles, perhaps there is no more spare?

In some cases you can use alternative train routes, and I suspect much of the freight will be going via Banbury. But clearly with passengers having to use alternative TOCs and coaches adding 2 hours to a journey that is a lot less that that in the first place is not ideal.

We don't know what has happened at Rugby, but I suspect things can just go wrong, like they do with any large engineering job. Though I grant you perhaps there is a case for getting some of the lines back in order, even if it's under handsignalling arrangements. It's just impossible to say from our armchair position.

 

[Max]

It seems that East Midlands Trains are accepting Value Advance, so passengers from Manchester could get to London (ableit with very extended journey times!).

Obviously it's never going to be an ideal situation, but I have a feeling people would rather be on a train of some sort than a coach.

 

[richa2002]

Why aren't trains running from Manchester to St. Pancras at least?! It's madness to be honest. The railway deserves the bad publicity.

 

[matt]

Looks like Rugby will be shut for another day and not re-open until Friday or maybe even Monday

Why aren't trains running from Manchester to St. Pancras at least?! It's madness to be honest. The railway deserves the bad publicity.

With what stock?

 

[AlexS]

Don't believe Pendolinos are passed to be dragged from Manchester to St Pancras

A bit much to ask that the passengers on the Midland Mainline have their services screwed up by diverting their trains to Manchester also!

 

[Gizmogle]

But going on Chiltern is longer, not a good thing for commuters

Certainly quicker than buses.

This is affecting me too, as I would be taking the WCML home tomorrow.

Although to be fair, people could just take the buses rather than trying to find other routes. I'm imagining buses will be quite full though...

They could take Chiltern or Midland Mainline quite easily anyway. Or even if all else fails, take the ECML and change at York or somewhere.

 

[class 313]

Don't believe Pendolinos are passed to be dragged from Manchester to St Pancras

A bit much to ask that the passengers on the Midland Mainline have their services screwed up by diverting their trains to Manchester also!

Two Drags an hour if that wouldn't really screw up the MML. The problem is for FCC. North of Bedford there are slots. South of Bedford, not the same story.

 

[Max]

Couldn't they just run Voyagers?

 

[matt]

Well Voyagers ran into Paddington when they were new before Paddington was removed from the CrossCountry network

 

[Max]

Voyagers must be passed for the Hope Valley and Midland Mainline since 222s are - I'm guessing route knowledge would be the main problem though.

 

[Gizmogle]

But VWC don't have enough Voyagers, surely?

 

[matt]

But VWC don't have enough Voyagers, surely?

If they put spare Pendolinos on the Birmingham to Scotland services
(presumably less are needed at the moment) which would have freed up a few Voyagers

 

[87015]

Well, I'm now going M1/M6 back to brum, already delayed my return until today hoping it would reopen...

Some diversions should be in effect, I dread to think what overcrowding has occured on Chiltern as a result of this shambles. Whats so hard about 2tph Euston-Bletchley-Bedford-Wigston curve-Nuneaton for Lpl/Man/Glasgow? Not as though the ronnies are overused and sure route conductors could be found if anyone actually wanted to make an effort.

 

[devon_metro]

Well Voyagers ran into Paddington when they were new before Paddington was removed from the CrossCountry network

No capacity between Reading and Paddington!

 

[Metroland]

Finding spare crews with route knowledge for a start, positioning stock, creating a timetable at short notice, pathing problems. Now if only the Great Central was still open...

 

[Tom]

Enclosed are the CrossCountry Voyager diagrams for SX...

XC4xx are 220s, XC5xx are 221s. Should give a rough idea how many Voyagers are free on the XC side...

 

[djw1981]

But they are already stepping pendo's up. My journey BNS-GLC last Thursday was a pendo when it should (according to VWC's timetable) have been a Voyager.

 

[Tom]

That's due to the blockade at Rugby.

 

[djw1981]

What Stock is operating to Northamptoon from EUS, because surely Pendo's have to go to Longsight every X days?

 

[matt]

What Stock is operating to Northamptoon from EUS, because surely Pendo's have to go to Longsight every X days?

Pendolinos. There is a depot at Wembley.