Two tone horns

[Bletchleyite]

A question - why is it that two tones now no longer seem to be used on the horn?

And given this, does new build rolling stock only have a single tone horn?

 

[Llama]

Only at 'whistle boards' or sounding certain codes is one horn tone normally used. This instruction at whistle boards has been the case for a decade or more now, but there is pressure to revert back to using both tones.

 

[hexagon789]

A question - why is it that two tones now no longer seem to be used on the horn?

And given this, does new build rolling stock only have a single tone horn?

From what I gather complaints about noise pollution led to a decision to amend the rulebook in about 2007 (?) so that only the use of the low tone was required at whistle boards. I think there are some locations where the use of both tones is still required and indicated by a double whistle board.

I don't know why new units are only single tone, seeing as both tones could be helpful in an emergency I would've thought to say nothing of the two-tone requirement at certain locations still.

 

[robbeech]

Is that a confirmation that (some) new units have only a single tone?

 

[lammergeier]

Is that a confirmation that (some) new units have only a single tone?

No because in other scenarios, for example to sound a warning to anybody on or near the line, two tones are used.

 

[nat67]

A question - why is it that two tones now no longer seem to be used on the horn?

And given this, does new build rolling stock only have a single tone horn?

HST's still have a two tone I think, I could be wrong, not a musician.

 

[sw1ller]

All 4 types of traction I drive have two tones. I’ve been in cabs with 4 (high,low,soft & something else, I’ve forgotten) but I don’t think it counts as 4 tones. Just a difference in pressure to one of the tones.

 

[hexagon789]

All 4 types of traction I drive have two tones. I’ve been in cabs with 4 (high,low,soft & something else, I’ve forgotten) but I don’t think it counts as 4 tones. Just a difference in pressure to one of the tones.

I believe it's "High", "Low", "Soft", "Loud", but it's simply a case of, as you say, varying the pressure to the high and low tone to give soft/loud settings for them.

 

[Kneedown]

All loco's/units have two tone horns. Both tones are to be used to give warning to persons sighted on or about the line, whether it's trackworkers or persons using foot crossings etc.
Where a Whistle board is sighted, only one tone is to be used unless local instructions dictate otherwise, or persons are seen using the crossing.
The four tones on some types of traction are high, and low "Loud" and high, and low "Soft". These are normally fitted to higher speed stock, although 170397 and 398 certainly had them from my memories at CT.

 

[sw1ller]

I believe it's "High", "Low", "Soft", "Loud", but it's simply a case of, as you say, varying the pressure to the high and low tone to give soft/loud settings for them.

Thank you. I’ve only been in that cab for 1 trip and that was 3 years ago. Now you’ve said it I can picture it. Cheers.

Whistle boards are a bit convoluted. The rule book states you MUST use the low tone only. But further on (TW1 45.3(e)) says I can use it when I consider it necessary. At some crossings with a W board I do consider a two tone necessary. Better safe than sorry.

 

[hexagon789]

Thank you. I’ve only been in that cab for 1 trip and that was 3 years ago. Now you’ve said it I can picture it. Cheers.

No bother.

Whistle boards are a bit convoluted. The rule book states you MUST use the low tone only. But further on (TW1 45.3(e)) says I can use it when I consider it necessary. At some crossings with a W board I do consider a two tone necessary. Better safe than sorry.

Definitely, there are plenty of times I hear drivers use both tones at W boards anyway.

 

[edwin_m]

All loco's/units have two tone horns.

IC225 have only one sound, although I think it's actually a chord of five playing together like American ones.

The interval of sound frequency between the two tones on HSTs is different from that on everything else that has two-tone horns. I don't know if this was meant to differentiate the faster trains for track workers or some other reason (or no reason at all!). Director Intercity or some similar personage describe the HST horn as being like an asthmatic sheep, which I think was what led to the IC225 getting something different.

 

[cjmillsnun]

IC225 have only one sound, although I think it's actually a chord of five playing together like American ones.

The interval of sound frequency between the two tones on HSTs is different from that on everything else that has two-tone horns. I don't know if this was meant to differentiate the faster trains for track workers or some other reason (or no reason at all!). Director Intercity or some similar personage describe the HST horn as being like an asthmatic sheep, which I think was what led to the IC225 getting something different.

225 sets definitely have two tone. One of which is the chord. If you watch Video 125s GNER Video from London to Edinburgh you can hear that.

 

[Fincra5]

I can't imagine any train being built without Two-Tone Horns as you have to use both tones, as per the rulebook, for a variety of reasons.

As per Aslef's August Circular, it is recommened we use Two Tone Horns at Whisteboards.

 

[E_Reeves]

225 sets definitely have two tone. One of which is the chord. If you watch Video 125s GNER Video from London to Edinburgh you can hear that.

This is a brilliant example

 

[DanDaDriver]

ASLEF have the position of using both tones at W boards, as do most of the old boy drivers. (Not an old boy, but use both as I was told to by the grizzled old boy that trained me)

 

[DPWH]

A question - why is it that two tones now no longer seem to be used on the horn?

And given this, does new build rolling stock only have a single tone horn?

So what you meant to ask was "why are these youngsters not as horny as the old timers?"

 

[Bletchleyite]

So what you meant to ask was "why are these youngsters not as horny as the old timers?"

 

[Deepgreen]

I am aware that recent policy has been to use a single tone at crossings, but I don't really think a single tone produces significantly less noise pollution than two - once one has been sounded, the quiet has been shattered anyway, so one more tone adds little more disturbance; BUT two tones do, I think, provide an unmistakable train (rather than road vehicle) identification that a single tone does not.

 

[Deepgreen]

I can't imagine any train being built without Two-Tone Horns as you have to use both tones, as per the rulebook, for a variety of reasons.

As per Aslef's August Circular, it is recommened we use Two Tone Horns at Whisteboards.

Interesting - do ASLEF recommendations supersede other (management) policies, and is the recommendation based on safety or any other points?

 

[TheEdge]

I am aware that recent policy has been to use a single tone at crossings, but I don't really think a single tone produces significantly less noise pollution than two - once one has been sounded, the quiet has been shattered anyway, so one more tone adds little more disturbance; BUT two tones do, I think, provide an unmistakable train (rather than road vehicle) identification that a single tone does not.

Thats my view. It's ingrained in the public consciousness that a train either has a steam whistle (which normally goes toot toot) or has a two tone air horn. There is nothing else in the UK that has that, so why would we ever use one tone when two make us sound very obviously like a train. Also, is it not odd that when trying to get the attention of people on the line who have full PTS and are aware of train movements we use two tones but if trying to get the attention of a random member of the public we only use one that could just as easily be a lorry.

As a few others have said I will often use two tones at certain W boards where I really want anyone nearby to be left in no doubt it was a train making that noise.

 

[LOL The Irony]

IC225 have only one sound, although I think it's actually a chord of five playing together like American ones.

I think it's 3. Look just above the buffer beam on a MK4 DVT. There's a pentagon with 3 holes in it.

 

[bengley]

The alleged reason for the single tone rule at whistle boards was to allow a change in the rule book which meant trains could continue running with one defective horn tone.

I use two tones at whistle boards in accordance with the ASLEF circular.

 

[driver9000]

The alleged reason for the single tone rule at whistle boards was to allow a change in the rule book which meant trains could continue running with one defective horn tone.

I use two tones at whistle boards in accordance with the ASLEF circular.

Trains were already permitted to continue without restriction with one defective tone when the Whistle board requirements were altered. The rule was changed for "environmental considerations" in 2007 ie because of complaints from people living near railway lines. The rule specifies the low tone must be sounded at W boards which wouldn't be able to to be complied with if the low tone was isolated.

 

[ainsworth74]

I am aware that recent policy has been to use a single tone at crossings, but I don't really think a single tone produces significantly less noise pollution than two - once one has been sounded, the quiet has been shattered anyway, so one more tone adds little more disturbance; BUT two tones do, I think, provide an unmistakable train (rather than road vehicle) identification that a single tone does not.

Which, of course, was the point of a two tone horn when it was introduced in the form we recognise today in the 1950s.

 

[Deepgreen]

Which, of course, was the point of a two tone horn when it was introduced in the form we recognise today in the 1950s.

Quite! It's an odd thing in this era of rapidly increasing safety strictures to relax safety like this. I wonder if the cost issues behind having to keep two tones in use at all times (i.e. proper maintenance and compensation claims arising from a stopped unit/loco) is behind at least part of the concept of one tone.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thats my view. It's ingrained in the public consciousness that a train either has a steam whistle (which normally goes toot toot) or has a two tone air horn. There is nothing else in the UK that has that, so why would we ever use one tone when two make us sound very obviously like a train. Also, is it not odd that when trying to get the attention of people on the line who have full PTS and are aware of train movements we use two tones but if trying to get the attention of a random member of the public we only use one that could just as easily be a lorry.

As a few others have said I will often use two tones at certain W boards where I really want anyone nearby to be left in no doubt it was a train making that noise.

Said Thomas! On the second point - absolutely; bizarre logic.

 

[DanDaDriver]

Interesting - do ASLEF recommendations supersede other (management) policies, and is the recommendation based on safety or any other points?

It doesn’t supersede it per se, but management will be aware of it and it means you would have the full backing of ASLEF if anything came of it. (Very unlikely in this case.)

 

[hexagon789]

Interestingly the NIR rulebook still stipulates use of BOTH tones at whistle boards, but has the 2300-0700 restriction on sounding horns.

 

[alangla]

Did I see something on a thread elsewhere suggesting that some Electrostars have air whistles as well as horns or am I talking nonsense?