Uber taxis

[telstarbox]

Black cabs will have to accept card and contactless payment from October.

All black cabs in London will be required to take credit cards and contactless payments from October, Transport for London has announced, as the taxi trade seeks to keep up with the technological challenge from Uber, the ride-hailing app.

The minimum fare of £2.40 will rise across the board by 20p to cover the costs of using the new technology. Credit card companies have agreed to cut the costs of accepting cards and other contactless methods, such as smartphone, carried by cabbies. Fees will fall below 3% of the transaction compared with a current rate that can be as high as 10%.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Black cabs will have to accept card and contactless payment from October.

The cynic in me says that won't stop the "machine isn't working" line you here from cab drivers a lot.

 

[PermitToTravel]

If only they could be fined for instances of that

 

[miami]

If the machine isn't working, the journey should be free.

In Washington DC if they try to pull the old "machine not working scam" you say "fine, I'll call the taxi commission as you're not allowed to pick up fares with a broken machine". Amazing how quickly the machine fixes itself.

http://dctaxi.dc.gov/page/passenger-and-driver-rights

All taxis must have a functioning taximeter that can accept credit card payments.
...
if you feel you have not been treated unfairly contact the DC Taxicab Commission at (855) 484-4966 24 hours a day/7 days a week

In NYC

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/passenger_creditcard.shtml

Is a driver allowed to refuse to let a passenger use his/her credit/debit card?
No. Drivers are required to accept American Express, MasterCard, VISA and Discover (and some will accept the JCB Card) for all fares. The driver must accept credit/debit cards for any fare amount. If a driver claims the credit card system is broken and/or prevents a passenger from using their credit/debit card, please report the medallion number to the TLC by going to 311 Online.


What if a driver says the system is not working?
The passenger should note the medallion number and go to 311 Online. Drivers are permitted to work with a broken system for up to 48 hours as long as they have reported the problem and are awaiting repair. Almost all (90%) system repairs must be completed within six hours.

In London? You get "Nah, I don't go south of the river this time of night mate" or "Cash only mate, I've got taxes to evade"

Well you would if you hadn't booked with uber.

 

[LateThanNever]

If the machine isn't working, the journey should be free.

In Washington DC if they try to pull the old "machine not working scam" you say "fine, I'll call the taxi commission as you're not allowed to pick up fares with a broken machine". Amazing how quickly the machine fixes itself.

http://dctaxi.dc.gov/page/passenger-and-driver-rights


In NYC

http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/passenger_creditcard.shtml


In London? You get "Nah, I don't go south of the river this time of night mate" or "Cash only mate, I've got taxes to evade"

Well you would if you hadn't booked with uber.

Well uber don't pay tax either North or South of the river and nobody seems to know if their drivers do either!

 

[miami]

Well uber don't pay tax either North or South of the river and nobody seems to know if their drivers do either!

Uber, like all international companies, avoid tax with lots of loopholes, which aren't immediately obvious how to fix (although I'm open to the ex-Tory-Chancellor's opinion )

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ax-row-shows-that-corporation-tax-has-had-it/

The Google tax row shows that corporation tax has “had its day” and should be replaced with a tax on sales, Lord Lawson, the former Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer, has said.

The peer, who has acted as an informal adviser to the current Chancellor George Osborne, said the fact that multinational companies can move profits around the globe meant that corporation tax was out of date.

I'm sure that Uber's upstanding drivers pay tax on their income (less allowable expenses). Their money is paid direct into a bank account, rather than cash in hand, so it's harder to hide the income. That said I'm not sure how many uber drivers will earn enough post expenses to actually pay any tax.

 

[deltic]

Uber, like all international companies, avoid tax with lots of loopholes, which aren't immediately obvious how to fix (although I'm open to the ex-Tory-Chancellor's opinion )

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ax-row-shows-that-corporation-tax-has-had-it/


I'm sure that Uber's upstanding drivers pay tax on their income (less allowable expenses). Their money is paid direct into a bank account, rather than cash in hand, so it's harder to hide the income. That said I'm not sure how many uber drivers will earn enough post expenses to actually pay any tax.

A bit off topic but Nigel Lawson's approach is effectively scrap corporation tax and have a sales tax ie increase or extend VAT. Not sure that would go down well with Joe Public.

With regard to your latter point this blog of an Uber driver is very interesting and highlights your point very well that Uber drivers are earning peanuts. http://www.uberlondondriver.com/

 

[sheff1]

"if you feel you have not been treated unfairly contact the DC Taxicab Commission"

Glad I have never been to Washington if being treated unfairly is the expectation

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to your latter point this blog of an Uber driver is very interesting and highlights your point very well that Uber drivers are earning peanuts. http://www.uberlondondriver.com/

That may be true - but it's not as if there is any shortage of minicab companies to drive for in London that aren't Uber. So why drive for Uber if you think they don't pay adequately?

 

[LateThanNever]

That may be true - but it's not as if there is any shortage of minicab companies to drive for in London that aren't Uber. So why drive for Uber if you think they don't pay adequately?

Driving for Uber is part-time pin money or till something better is available. It's only a career for its American creators taking their cut. It is yet another instance of economic rent seeking and deskilling, which likes to tell everyone it is highly innovative. It isn't. Uber is just backed by more capital that any of its competitors. That's its danger.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A bit off topic but Nigel Lawson's approach is effectively scrap corporation tax and have a sales tax ie increase or extend VAT. Not sure that would go down well with Joe Public.

Lawson's idea is nuts. The very raison d' être of commerce is to make a profit. Yet he thinks profit shouldn't be taxed but all the customers should pay a bit more to compensate. He's lost the plot.
He should instead be suggesting abolition of tax havens - a good half of which are Crown Dependencies or British Ooverseas Territories!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Driving for Uber is part-time pin money or till something better is available. It's only a career for its American creators taking their cut. It is yet another instance of economic rent seeking and deskilling

It's nothing of the sort. The skills required to drive an Uber car do not differ from those required to drive a minicab. That is the comparable industry.

 

[button_boxer]

Fees will fall below 3% of the transaction compared with a current rate that can be as high as 10%.

There are at least three smartphone-based chip&pin/contactless payment systems on the market that only charge 2.75% max, with no ongoing charges once you've bought the card reader.

 

[chubs]

The fees on Paypal are pretty low as well, and they provide a mini card reader that pairs with a smartphone.

 

[miami]

It's nothing of the sort. The skills required to drive an Uber car do not differ from those required to drive a minicab. That is the comparable industry.

Perhaps Uber gives drivers more flexibility than the average minicab firm. "Work if you want when you want" rather than "I need you to cover this shift"?

That flexibility is a major benefit that people adding up the finances don't really pay attention to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps Uber gives drivers more flexibility than the average minicab firm. "Work if you want when you want" rather than "I need you to cover this shift"?

Quite possibly so, my point was more in relation to the claim that it was deskilling - it categorically is not. It is just another form of minicab. Indeed, many minicab companies are using apps to do the same thing - Speedline in MK do. Indeed it's a better app as it allows advance booking, Uber doesn't.

 

[deltic]

Quite possibly so, my point was more in relation to the claim that it was deskilling - it categorically is not. It is just another form of minicab. Indeed, many minicab companies are using apps to do the same thing - Speedline in MK do. Indeed it's a better app as it allows advance booking, Uber doesn't.

Minicabs in many locations are provided by a large number of small local companies. Along comes Uber with its app and publicity and makes booking a minicab a lot easier growing the market. The small minicab firms lose business - dont have capital to produce apps or provide city wide coverage. Drivers see a fall in income and hence offer to drive for Uber. Other people see Ubers claims about how much money their drivers earn (up to £50k a year) - and enter the market. However, in reality they dont earn that amount but are then stuck with long term car leasing agreements sometimes through Uber. The number of minicab drivers in London has soared but its not clear the market has increased by the same extent so drivers earnings have fallen. Taking into account the long hours many work - earnings can be less than the minimum wage.

 

[Deerfold]

Lawson's idea is nuts. The very raison d' être of commerce is to make a profit. Yet he thinks profit shouldn't be taxed but all the customers should pay a bit more to compensate. He's lost the plot.
He should instead be suggesting abolition of tax havens - a good half of which are Crown Dependencies or British Ooverseas Territories!

The customer shouldn't be paying any more - it just makes the tax harder for the company to avoid as it has to be paid on transactions instead of profits.

 

[deltic]

The customer shouldn't be paying any more - it just makes the tax harder for the company to avoid as it has to be paid on transactions instead of profits.

It depends very much on the sector. Sainsburys for example has a turnover of £26bn and paid around £100m tax. Stagecoach on £2bn turnover paid around £25m tax. A 0.1% transaction tax would cost Stagecoach £20m but Sainsbury £260m. These are just the first two companies I looked at. The range across all companies would be far greater and many companies would have to pass on that transaction cost to customers to stay in business.

 

[button_boxer]

The fees on Paypal are pretty low as well, and they provide a mini card reader that pairs with a smartphone.

PayPal Here is one of the three I had in mind, the other two being iZettle and Payleven. And there's also SumUp now, which is cheaper than the others for low volume use but doesn't have the sliding scale pricing that the others offer for larger volumes.

 

[LateThanNever]

Minicabs in many locations are provided by a large number of small local companies. Along comes Uber with its app and publicity and makes booking a minicab a lot easier growing the market. The small minicab firms lose business - dont have capital to produce apps or provide city wide coverage. Drivers see a fall in income and hence offer to drive for Uber. Other people see Ubers claims about how much money their drivers earn (up to £50k a year) - and enter the market. However, in reality they dont earn that amount but are then stuck with long term car leasing agreements sometimes through Uber. The number of minicab drivers in London has soared but its not clear the market has increased by the same extent so drivers earnings have fallen. Taking into account the long hours many work - earnings can be less than the minimum wage.

An intersesting development I've just come accross is Minicabit https://www.minicabit.com/
It certainly seems preferable to ubers's race to the bottom!
"Today, Minicabit collaborates with over 700 private hire operators across the UK, with fleets spanning over 40 UK cities.

Back in December, Minicabit raised £1.4m in funding with backers including Adrian McAlpine, partner at construction giant Sir Robert McAlpine, investment firm Hambro Perks and Oakley Capital.

The app has also secured big partnership deals including Heathrow and London City Airports, Barclays Pingit, the O2 Academy Group, and Big Yellow Storage."
More info on this link:
http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/...-to-launch-uber-rival-minicabit/11787.article

 

[mirodo]

An intersesting development I've just come accross is Minicabit https://www.minicabit.com/
It certainly seems preferable to ubers's race to the bottom!
"Today, Minicabit collaborates with over 700 private hire operators across the UK, with fleets spanning over 40 UK cities.

Back in December, Minicabit raised £1.4m in funding with backers including Adrian McAlpine, partner at construction giant Sir Robert McAlpine, investment firm Hambro Perks and Oakley Capital.

The app has also secured big partnership deals including Heathrow and London City Airports, Barclays Pingit, the O2 Academy Group, and Big Yellow Storage."
More info on this link:
http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/...-to-launch-uber-rival-minicabit/11787.article

Kabbee does the same thing and, from a quick comparision I just made, is cheaper and has cabs available sooner.

A 10 mile journey from Zone 2 SW London to Croydon right now:

Uber: £19-£26, pickup in 3 mins
Kabbee: £22.80, pickup in 12 mins
Minicabit: £30.40, pickup in 30 mins

 

[LateThanNever]

Kabbee does the same thing and, from a quick comparision I just made, is cheaper and has cabs available sooner.

A 10 mile journey from Zone 2 SW London to Croydon right now:

Uber: £19-£26, pickup in 3 mins
Kabbee: £22.80, pickup in 12 mins
Minicabit: £30.40, pickup in 30 mins

Interesting that Uber has a mixed price - is that because of the 'grade' of car I wonder? Or is it because they can't decide on the route?

Anyway Kabbee seems to be London only. Minicabit seems to be national as far as I can see.

 

[miami]

Interesting that Uber has a mixed price - is that because of the 'grade' of car I wonder? Or is it because they can't decide on the route?

Anyway Kabbee seems to be London only. Minicabit seems to be national as far as I can see.

Probably because it's time-dependent too, hit lots of traffic, pay more.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

It's nothing of the sort. The skills required to drive an Uber car do not differ from those required to drive a minicab. That is the comparable industry.

and in the case of all UK uber operations i'm aware of it IS driving a PHV , the difference being the generation of taskings ( from the app vs the person in the cab office )

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. All it does is automate the cab office.

 

[johntea]

I got an email from Uber today advertising their fares in West Yorkshire are going down by an average of 13%, minimum fare now £2.50.

Ignoring surge pricing, I predict Amber Cars in Leeds particularly are in trouble with that move!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reductions are interesting, because it could well reduce the number of Uber drivers if any move back to traditional private hire.

 

[WestCoast]

Also received an email that Uber Birmingham fares will fall on average by 13%.

 

[Bungle965]

I also had roughly the same email as everyone else saying that the fares in Manchester were also going down.
Sam

 

[PermitToTravel]

Though it's 14% in Manchester seemingly