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Uber taxis

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Bletchleyite

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Are there any taxi apps other than Uber that allow you to pay using card and don't permit tips?

Yes, the two local taxi companies I use, Speedline and Skyline, take card via an app and do not offer an option to tip.

Apart from the ability to advance-book, they are functionally identical to Uber for the passenger.
 
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Bletchleyite

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which is all well and good when you are laid i nthe gutter with seven shades kicked out of you / a knife i nthe gut and all your takings gone ...

True, which is why drivers seem not to be objecting to it too much - having no cash on them at all makes them much less vulnerable.

Cash is, essentially, a complete nuisance - it's easy to steal, it makes people vulnerable to attack, it is expensive to process, it is easy to hide commission of crimes, it can't be replaced if lost, stolen or damaged etc. Personally, I try to use it as little as possible.

If the drivers pushed hard enough it wouldn't be hard to allow the app to ask if you wanted to tip at the end, perhaps even making it easier with a few buttons to tip nothing, 5%, 10% or 20%, say, or click to enter your own amount. But personally I would rather the fare was sufficient to pay the driver properly. Few people call round taxi companies for a quote to pick the cheapest, they either use the one they trust or they check a few and choose the one that can provide a car quickest.
 
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Abpj17

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Private hire companies aren't using radio any more, they're using apps like Uber do. And cash has an advantage to drivers - no need (!) to declare it all for tax, and more tips.

Thought the quality of those apps etc has been driven somewhat by the competition from Uber, in my view.

They're actually better than Uber in most cases - you can advance book. And that competition is heading to Uber who plan to introduce that feature.

You can advance book with Uber now as well. Well, in London at least. I assume it will roll out in other UK cities if they reach a critical mass of drivers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37184648

Uber still has it moments though - drivers cancel which is pretty much unheard of with PHV.

Outside London, the PHV apps can often seem pretty basic. Our local one broke for a week or so on the iphone with the iOS upgrade as well. Our local firm also seems to still use radio for more complex communications but not basic dispatch. (Trying to find drivers; resolving issues when drivers take the wrong passengers etc.)
 

miami

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With PHV drivers not turning up is quite common. You phone the dispatcher and "they're just round the corner". 20 minutes later they turn up. Unless they get lost.

Our local taxi firm refuses to take local journeys by phone (say 2 or 3 miles) in advance, makes them worthless as part of a public transport system.
 
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With PHV drivers not turning up is quite common. You phone the dispatcher and "they're just round the corner". 20 minutes later they turn up. Unless they get lost.

'driver's just round the corner' is dispatcher shorthand for ' oh **** i didn't dispatch that '


Our local taxi firm refuses to take local journeys by phone (say 2 or 3 miles) in advance, makes them worthless as part of a public transport system.

If i were designing a dispatch system for PHVs for scratch i'd put a special function / queue for those to prevent the above ...

in terms of planning work - knowing you have a long trip in advance really helps especially if like a Airport / cruise run it's going to take a driver out for half or full shift ...

however planning and allocating short pre-booked journeys can really mess up the picture overall ( unless it's a specialist social care job and paid for as such ) where if your dispatch system had a function where they popped up at the top the list at a relevant time ...
 

pdq

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We have just a few Uber cars in my local area, and last time I tried they were significantly more expensive than my local taxi firm, where the minimum charge is £2.50. Many of my taxi journeys are at that level or just above. I can book using an app and I'm notified when my car is despatched so I can track it and know which vehicle to look out for. Paying by card/PayPal is the only feature it's missing.
 

miami

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Metrolink was broken this afternoon, and no ubers around (presumably some of the 100+ people queueing for the bus would have taken all the available ones). There was a black cab though.

God how depressing. As well as a foul mouth tirade of how awful the roadworks were, and the weather, and the trains, and glasgow he didn't take a card - let alone contactless, meaning having to find a cash machine and take some out in the wind + rain.

The rise of Uber (and firms like in milton keynes) is a symptom of a population after a more civilised way to get around than the centuries old monopoly. I once again have affirmed my belief in having zero sympathy for the decline of the trade.
 

Bletchleyite

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however planning and allocating short pre-booked journeys can really mess up the picture overall ( unless it's a specialist social care job and paid for as such ) where if your dispatch system had a function where they popped up at the top the list at a relevant time ...

They can, but people often need to travel at specific times[1]. So as the owner of a company you need to work out how to satisfy your customers, not how to run for your own operational convenience. As if you fail to do that, eventually someone else will come along and trounce you - as Uber is doing in places.

[1] From experience, the timing of even pre-booked local taxi journeys can be so unreliable that it is easier to go by bus where there is a service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The rise of Uber (and firms like in milton keynes) is a symptom of a population after a more civilised way to get around than the centuries old monopoly. I once again have affirmed my belief in having zero sympathy for the decline of the trade.

I agree. I find it a dishonest trade particularly outside London (by UK standards - in some countries it's vastly, vastly worse), and one that London could cope with far less of, to be honest. In MK they are a total irrelevance (and very often untrustworthy) - the private hire operators are vastly superior and getting better, and cheaper too - and Uber is starting up as well.
 
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deltic

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We have just a few Uber cars in my local area, and last time I tried they were significantly more expensive than my local taxi firm, where the minimum charge is £2.50. Many of my taxi journeys are at that level or just above. I can book using an app and I'm notified when my car is despatched so I can track it and know which vehicle to look out for. Paying by card/PayPal is the only feature it's missing.

If you dont mind me asking how long are your taxi journeys - £2.50 gets you about 250m in London
 

pdq

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If you dont mind me asking how long are your taxi journeys - £2.50 gets you about 250m in London
My station/home journey is 1.1 miles and is just within the £2.50 minimum charge. I'm doing a 3 mile journey later which will be £4.90 including a stop to collect my children from after-school club.
For Uber to compete in an area with low taxi fares, they need to be competitive fare-wise and offer some other selling point.
 
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miami

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Those sound very similar to uber prices in Stoke. I assume you don't need to worry about paying for your local taxi firm, it just gets deducted from your account, and you can see where you're taxi is before it picks you up, see the route it took, share that route with friends+family so they know your eta, etc?
 

Bletchleyite

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Those sound very similar to uber prices in Stoke. I assume you don't need to worry about paying for your local taxi firm, it just gets deducted from your account, and you can see where you're taxi is before it picks you up, see the route it took, share that route with friends+family so they know your eta, etc?

The apps used by the two main local taxi companies to me have the same features that the Uber app does, yes.
 

jon0844

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https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/did-uber-drivers-passengers-just-lose-the-right-to-sue

If you become involved in a situation with Uber that might warrant suing, you may have waived your right to sue in favor of arbitration, according to an update to Uber's terms and conditions.

Uber updated its terms and conditions on Monday, adding in a very large wall of text regarding arbitration: "By agreeing to the Terms, you agree that you are required to resolve any claim that you may have against Uber on an individual basis in arbitration, as set forth in this Arbitration Agreement."

It continues: "This will preclude you from bringing any class, collective, or representative action against Uber, and also preclude you from participating in or recovering relief under any current or future class, collective, consolidated, or representative action brought against Uber by someone else." This includes not only passengers of Uber's traditional services, but also users of UberEats and other offshoots.

The terms weren't announced prior to the day they were released. If somebody doesn't read the new terms today, tough tomatoes, he or she is still bound to the words therein. A quick, unscientific poll of CNET editors found that none received an email regarding the updated terms and conditions prior to November 21.
 
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jon0844

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This is in the US but it seems many businesses these days act illegally and wait for action later. Indeed, just how Uber pretty much started - by doing something before Governments could even understand what was happening.
 

daikilo

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I wonder if that is applicable in all locations - as Uber's model of operatiosn has had to adapt in those places which require it to operate a regulated and licenced private hire vehicle operator ...

also can an illegal term be enforced ? I suspect the courts would take a dim view of such a clause...

An illegal term cannot be enforced.

In addition, in principle, you can only waive your rights by a formal and tracable means i.e. if Uber does not have evidence that you have formally waived your rights (such as a tick in a box on your reservation which is blocked if the box is not ticked) then generally such a waiver will not stand. This may not be required in some countries but I believe it is in the UK and many other European states. And the onus is on them to provide proof.
 
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TUC

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I really don't understand why London is making sure a big deal about Uber. They're operating in cities like Leeds largely without comment. Then again, Londoners seem to treat private hire vehicles/minicabs as some strange innovation to be suspecious of, when for everyone else, its simply the licencing model for what most people would perceive as a taxi when they have booked one rather than flagging one down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where?

What are you comparing it with?

Do the drivers seem happy with it?

Is that your only concern rather than whether customers are happy with it?
 
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I really don't understand why London is making sure a big deal about Uber. They're operating in cities like Leeds largely without comment. Then again, Londoners seem to treat private hire vehicles/minicabs as some strange innovation to be suspecious of, when for everyone else, its simply the licencing model for what most people would perceive as a taxi when they have booked one rather than flagging one down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is that your only concern rather than whether customers are happy with it?

it;s becasue the Laaaaandannn Cabbies keep telling people that PHVs are all lyyiiinngg caaaaaaaants guvnor ...

black cabs are also ****ting themselves because Uber and peopel like addison lee are no longer half a dozen avenises and a bloke in a little lock up office with beacon outside ...
 

Deerfold

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I really don't understand why London is making sure a big deal about Uber. They're operating in cities like Leeds largely without comment. Then again, Londoners seem to treat private hire vehicles/minicabs as some strange innovation to be suspecious of, when for everyone else, its simply the licencing model for what most people would perceive as a taxi when they have booked one rather than flagging one down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Is that your only concern rather than whether customers are happy with it?

I see no reason why you'd think that was my only concern. Hadders had already made it clear they were happy with it - I was looking at the other side of the coin. If a driver had said how much they loved it, I wonder if their customers were as keen. It's good for customers to be happy, but I'd be worried if that came with a massive reduction of the happiness of workers (and I don't know if that is the case which is why I asked).

In the bit you've quoted you'll see I'm interested in what it was being compared with.

It was also 5 months ago and I didn't get an answer.
 

fowler9

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I believe they have been in the press today after a driver down in Essex drove two girls in their twenties the wrong way, when they asked about it he tried to up the fare and got angry dumping them by a reservoir in the middle of no where at 1 in the morning after pinning one of them to her seat with the seatbelt (Possibly by accident, still doesn't sound good as he tried to drag her out).
 

Bletchleyite

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I believe they have been in the press today after a driver down in Essex drove two girls in their twenties the wrong way, when they asked about it he tried to up the fare and got angry dumping them by a reservoir in the middle of no where at 1 in the morning after pinning one of them to her seat with the seatbelt (Possibly by accident, still doesn't sound good as he tried to drag her out).

How can an Uber driver up the fare other than by taking a longer route (which the passenger can appeal afterwards and get a near enough automatic refund and black mark against the driver, so there's no point arguing about it at the time)?

It just charges what's on the "meter". The driver has no option to change that. That's one of the big benefits of Uber (and the similar minicab company apps).
 
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I believe they have been in the press today after a driver down in Essex drove two girls in their twenties the wrong way, when they asked about it he tried to up the fare and got angry dumping them by a reservoir in the middle of no where at 1 in the morning after pinning one of them to her seat with the seatbelt (Possibly by accident, still doesn't sound good as he tried to drag her out).

and this behaviour is unique to Uber vs other PHV drivers in what way ?

at least Uber don;t have the 'special channel' on their PMR radios - typically not in english and used to collect together your 'brothers' , 'uncles' and 'cousins' should a barney be desired ...
 

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I believe they have been in the press today after a driver down in Essex drove two girls in their twenties the wrong way, when they asked about it he tried to up the fare and got angry dumping them by a reservoir in the middle of no where at 1 in the morning after pinning one of them to her seat with the seatbelt (Possibly by accident, still doesn't sound good as he tried to drag her out).

Sounds like a story with only one side, and that side is being given by two girls who were needing a lift home at 1am on a Sunday morning. The driver cannot up the fare - Neil has explained how and why this can't be done. The customers either put in the wrong destination or the driver took an innocent wrong turn and got lost.

I can only find the story in the Daily Star, which isn't a newspaper.
 
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PermitToTravel

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I requested an Uber yesterday during a surge. The driver phoned me to ask where I was going. Upon my telling him, he said he'd see me shortly; but then immediately after hanging up cancelled the reservation. Presumably he felt that my trip wasn't worth his time.

This was particularly frustrating due to the time it took to get matched with a driver in the first place, and then the time it took to get matched with another (during a higher surge rate!). Furthermore, while the app makes it easy to complain about a trip you took, it is particularly challenging to complain in the situation I found myself in.

To Uber's credit, when I did manage to write them some feedback, they got back to me very promptly to say that they'd identified the driver and would be following this up :D
 

fowler9

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and this behaviour is unique to Uber vs other PHV drivers in what way ?

at least Uber don;t have the 'special channel' on their PMR radios - typically not in english and used to collect together your 'brothers' , 'uncles' and 'cousins' should a barney be desired ...

Mate I was just commenting on a story about Uber in the press. Was in Warsaw last weekend and a cabbie there tried to have us off big style. We told him to do one and high tailed it in to the subway by the main station where he had delivered us for some reason after trying to charge us 280 Zloty for a five minute trip. I know it isn't just Uber.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sounds like a story with only one side, and that side is being given by two girls who were needing a lift home at 1am on a Sunday morning. The driver cannot up the fare - Neil has explained how and why this can't be done. The customers either put in the wrong destination or the driver took an innocent wrong turn and got lost.

I can only find the story in the Daily Star, which isn't a newspaper.

Well I certainly didn't get it out of the Daily Star which is more of a comic :D I know what you mean mate though, it was very one sided. As I said above I know it isn't just Uber drivers who could possibly be dodgy after recent experience.
 

Bletchleyite

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The other possibility is that surge pricing (an automatic uplift at busy times to encourage more drivers onto the road) applied, and they took that to mean he was trying to rip them off.
 

Abpj17

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I requested an Uber yesterday during a surge. The driver phoned me to ask where I was going. Upon my telling him, he said he'd see me shortly; but then immediately after hanging up cancelled the reservation. Presumably he felt that my trip wasn't worth his time.

This was particularly frustrating due to the time it took to get matched with a driver in the first place, and then the time it took to get matched with another (during a higher surge rate!). Furthermore, while the app makes it easy to complain about a trip you took, it is particularly challenging to complain in the situation I found myself in.

To Uber's credit, when I did manage to write them some feedback, they got back to me very promptly to say that they'd identified the driver and would be following this up :D

Yes - this is one of the main issues I have with uber still, drivers that cancel (and drivers that are a bit clueless about directions).

(Probably fake) PHV are notoriously bad in central London. While there is an element of propaganda, it's common to see cars hanging around outside clubs trying to get fares. I'm sure the ones operating rather more legally that are booked via phone/app to a fairly reputable company are fine. TfL and Uber drivers all have enhanced security vetting and drivers are struck off if there is a good enough reason.
 

PermitToTravel

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But it's still not uncommon to see vehicles with PHV licence stickers speculatively approaching punters. While they're vetted, such operation is just as illegal as when people without any PHV/taxi licence do it.

PHVs in Manchester City Council's area have a large sticker on them showing the company the driver works for. Ubers there are just as likely to be illegally touting as others IME.
 

johntea

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Always funny when Uber whacks on surge pricing in Leeds, despite the fact I can load up Amber Cars several seconds later and book one of their taxis virtually straight away :lol:
 
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