UK speed record for diesel trains broken in 1993 by russian locomotive

[Wardog]

Sorry if this has been up before, or if I am offending somebodys national pride...

Guiness was not present at the time, so its not exactly official, but it was supposed to have reached 271 km/h. Quite impressive if true...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEP80

Unit TEP80-0002 claims to hold the world speed record for a diesel railed vehicle having reached 271 km/h (168 mph) on 5 October 1993.[3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwYXjxXFha0

[youtube]wwYXjxXFha0[/youtube]

 

[yorksrob]

When the InterCity 125 broke the diesel speed record back in the day, it revolutionised rail transport throughout the country and led to day to day high speed running.

Did the above record lead to similar improvements on the Russian network ?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Deleted. I misread it as steam.

The German "Rail Zeppelin" went faster and that was from the 1930s.
It used petrol though, not diesel.

 

[notadriver]

I'm trying to listen for the diesel engine but I can't hear it at all

 

[Wardog]

I'm trying to listen for the diesel engine but I can't hear it at all

Well, the TEP 80 does not have a pantograph

 

[Ash Bridge]

Deleted. I misread it as steam.

The German "Rail Zeppelin" went faster and that was from the 1930s.
It used petrol though, not diesel.

What speed did it acheive?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

What speed did it acheive?

Schienenzeppelin is the German name.
143mph in 1931. The train was scrapped due to WW2.
It used a propellor!

Edit: I realise it's slower than HST now, I didn't at first.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Schienenzeppelin is the German name.
143mph in 1931. The train was scrapped due to WW2.
It used a propellor!

A HST achieved 148.5 mph in 1987.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I can't believe that USSR had any track suitable for 271 km/h and even if it had I'd expect that the loco would have been running light

 

[notadriver]

I can't believe that USSR had any track suitable for 271 km/h and even if it had I'd expect that the loco would have been running light

They have a 'high speed' route between Moscow and St Peterberg. It was on Michael Portfolio's great European railway journeys.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I can't believe that USSR had any track suitable for 271 km/h and even if it had I'd expect that the loco would have been running light

They have a 'high speed' route between Moscow and St Peterberg. It was on Michael Portfolio's great European railway journeys.

Just looking at that loco though, it looks about as "high speed" as a class 66 or 60 with its flat front, then again I think someone once mentioned on here 60s were tested to 120+ so who knows

 

[yorkie]

Schienenzeppelin is the German name.
143mph in 1931. The train was scrapped due to WW2.
It used a propellor!

Edit: I realise it's slower than HST now, I didn't at first.

Indeed, it wasn't as fast, and it arguably wasn't a train as it was just a single vehicle. It didn't even make it into production.

 

[Bill EWS]

I caught an HST high speed test run from Paddington through a 200mm zoom lens and Canon AE1 camera when it flew through Didcot. Can't remember the time at the moment, probably the early 80's. If I remember correctly it passed Dicot in less than 40 minutes but may be wrong. Perhaps someone can give me the year and date and the actual passing speed.

 

[notadriver]

Russia has a high speed railway !

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapsan

 

[Ash Bridge]

I caught an HST high speed test run from Paddington through a 200mm zoom lens and Canon AE1 camera when it flew through Didcot. Can't remember the time at the moment, probably the early 80's. If I remember correctly it passed Dicot in less than 40 minutes but may be wrong. Perhaps someone can give me the year and date and the actual passing speed.

On 30/08/1984 43002/003 plus 5 trailer cars covered Paddington-Bristol TM in 62:30 mins, working a "Top of the Pops"special, broadcast live from the train. Wonder if it's that one? Can't find any log for it though.

 

[ainsworth74]

They have a 'high speed' route between Moscow and St Peterberg. It was on Michael Portfolio's great European railway journeys.

But they didn't in 1993 when the test took place

 

[gordonthemoron]

I was at Swindon works in 1983, they were doing some 150 anniversary thing about GWR, I thought they managed to get an HST up to 150mph?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I was at Swindon works in 1983, they were doing some 150 anniversary thing about GWR, I thought they managed to get an HST up to 150mph?

You have to wonder if back in BR days when things seemed a tad more relaxed (speaking in general of course) if a driver did unofficially manage such a speed or more?

 

[Wardog]

I can't believe that USSR had any track suitable for 271 km/h and even if it had I'd expect that the loco would have been running light

I dont think the track was suitable for that speed in regular service, but it looks very new and smooth. Propably welded track for service speeds up to 200 km/h.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was at Swindon works in 1983, they were doing some 150 anniversary thing about GWR, I thought they managed to get an HST up to 150mph?

Without passengers I guess.

I wonder if you can unhook the trailers from the HST, and let the one way locomotive drive on its own, or even both locomotives coupled together?

Without trailers the HST should be able to achieve more than 271 km/h without problems. Its worth a try...

 

[ainsworth74]

I wonder if you can unhook the trailers from the HST, and let the one way locomotive drive on its own, or even both locomotives coupled together?

Most certainly:

[youtube]ynkBD9SKNo0[/youtube]

[youtube]SL6S_Gm5YEI[/youtube]

The only issue would be brake force as I believe when the power cars operate alone (or with only a few trailers) their top speed is limited as their brake performance is reduced (fewer axles being braked). So whilst, in theory, their top speed should be quite impressive, in practice it would potentially be worse than in service.

 

[Wardog]

Is it just me, or does the TEP-80 look absolutely gigantic on that video? Either the russians in front must be very small, or the locomotive is 5 - 6 meters high.

Furthermore, why did they only build two of them? Perhaps only to break the record, but why not do it officialy with presense of Guiness and all?

I wonder how fast such a powerful locomotive can haul 5 or 10 trailers. 220 km/h perhaps? We could have used such powerful diesel engines in Denmark at that time, since we mostly used hauled trailers and had no electrification.

 

[tsr]

You have to wonder if back in BR days when things seemed a tad more relaxed (speaking in general of course) if a driver did unofficially manage such a speed or more?

I was of the understanding that they did, most unofficially, with a couple of runs in the dead of night. Some speeds I have heard from fairly reliable sources are enough to make 125mph look pretty tame, and noticeably exceed what was deemed reliable enough to be effectively officially aimed at and endorsed for the proper record. Alas, they are not totally comfortable with them in the public domain (I've asked).

 

[Wardog]

Most certainly:

[youtube]ynkBD9SKNo0[/youtube]

[youtube]SL6S_Gm5YEI[/youtube]

The only issue would be brake force as I believe when the power cars operate alone (or with only a few trailers) their top speed is limited as their brake performance is reduced (fewer axles being braked). So whilst, in theory, their top speed should be quite impressive, in practice it would potentially be worse than in service.

Thanks. So the 238 km/h record was made with trailers?

It really would be fun to see how fast one or two engines can go on their own. If its not possible in UK, it should be on the TGV network...:

 

[Ash Bridge]

I was of the understanding that they did, most unofficially, with a couple of runs in the dead of night. Some speeds I have heard from fairly reliable sources are enough to make 125mph look pretty tame, and noticeably exceed what was deemed reliable enough to be effectively officially aimed at and endorsed for the proper record. Alas, they are not totally comfortable with them in the public domain (I've asked).

Back in the late 70s early 80s Western Region HST drivers were reputed to have had (obviously unofficially) a 140 club did they not? Were these sources ex members? Also as a slight aside, it was suggested that the prototype Deltic must have exceeded 130mph decending either Shap or Beattock when it severely damaged its traction motors on a test run in the early sixties, would be very interested to learn more of the HSTs high speed exploits though!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have definitely had a 140 run back in the late 1980s between Paddington and reading and I am pretty sure it was an officially sanctioned run ( HSTs have speed governors don't they? So they'd have to be isolated at both ends? ); it covered Paddington to Reading in 18 minutes start to stop with a slow start and running cautions for the last couple of miles meaning rather a crawl on the approach to Reading.

One other person travelling with me is also a forum member, though I don't know if he would remember the run. We were part the way into the journey when we noticed the ride quality was somewhat more lively than normal, so I started timing the mileposts - not easy as it was dusk at the time; no GPS in those days! We were doing a fairly consistent 140 for virtually the whole distance until slowing for the approach to Reading as mentioned above.

It was most enjoyable.

 

[Wardog]

I have definitely had a 140 run back in the late 1980s between Paddington and reading and I am pretty sure it was an officially sanctioned run ( HSTs have speed governors don't they? So they'd have to be isolated at both ends? ); it covered Paddington to Reading in 18 minutes start to stop with a slow start and running cautions for the last couple of miles meaning rather a crawl on the approach to Reading.

One other person travelling with me is also a forum member, though I don't know if he would remember the run. We were part the way into the journey when we noticed the ride quality was somewhat more lively than normal, so I started timing the mileposts - not easy as it was dusk at the time; no GPS in those days! We were doing a fairly consistent 140 for virtually the whole distance until slowing for the approach to Reading as mentioned above.

It was most enjoyable.

Hmm if the tracks and their curve radius was prepared for 140 at that time, then why limit HSTs to only 125?

Perhaps the ride gets to bumpy for the passengers at 140?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Hmm if the tracks and their curve radius was prepared for 140 at that time, then why limit HSTs to only 125?

Perhaps the ride gets to bumpy for the passengers at 140?

I would imagine that is one very good reason, other factors could be higher fuel consumption, signalling, track wear etc. I've heard it said that the 225s on the East coast route ride better at high speed, and also the Pendolino's on the West coast, but these types are designed to cruise at 225km/h.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's due to signalling rather than track wear, ride quality or fuel consumption (though obviously that does play a role). It has been decided that drivers cannot safely sight signals at speeds in excess of 125mph so to go faster requires in-cab signalling. Obviously for one off special trips that requirement can be relaxed but to do it in service would require in-cab signalling.

They experimented with a fifth signal aspect on the southern East Coast Mainline by having a flashing green light being a fifth aspect but this trial was unsuccessful (in anything other than perfectly clear weather the drivers struggled to determine if it as a flashing green or steady green).

Until we get in-cab signalling we will not be seeing 140mph outside of HS1.

Pathing is the the other huge issue with 140mph running. Trying to fit in 140mph expresses, 100mph commuter/regional services, 75mph locals and freight at all sorts of different speeds is a nightmare.

 

[notadriver]

In all other countries, anything above 100 mph requires some sort of cab signalling and speed supervision. Unfortunately European legislation has caught up with us hence the installation of ERTMS on the ECML. Whilst the GW has ATP it seems that trains not equipped with it - voyagers can still run at full speed and non tass fitted trains on the WCML are limited to 110 mph.

 

[sprinterguy]

I have definitely had a 140 run back in the late 1980s between Paddington and reading and I am pretty sure it was an officially sanctioned run ( HSTs have speed governors don't they? So they'd have to be isolated at both ends? ); it covered Paddington to Reading in 18 minutes start to stop with a slow start and running cautions for the last couple of miles meaning rather a crawl on the approach to Reading.

HSTs have speed limiters fitted now, they didn't during the most part of their lives under BR. As Ash Bridge says in the early years of HST operation, Western region drivers had an unofficial "140 club". During the same time period, Western region timetable planners were reputed to round down fractions of a minute rather than up, so a combination of the two undoubtedly lead to some "spirited" runs!