UK train passengers face loss of free wi-fi

[Killingworth]

Story in The Times, see UK train passengers face loss of free wi-fi. Kite fying?
Passengers face losing access to wi-fi on trains after ministers told rail companies to cut costs.

Operators have been told they should stop providing the service unless they can demonstrate its business justification, in a move that will infuriate passengers.

The move is being pushed by the Department for Transport in an attempt to cut costs as it looks to “reform all aspects” of the railway. Virtually all operators provide wi-fi free of charge at present.


The author and railway historian Christian Wolmar revealed the proposals on his podcast, Calling All Stations, describing it as a “ridiculous measure”. He said: “The DfT actually wants to reduce the quality of the train service by saying to passengers: sorry, you can’t access wi-fi. It’s all about saving money.


“But we’re trying to attract commuters back on to the railway, and people like to get on their phone or laptops. They’re going backwards. My view is that wi-fi is as essential as toilets now — people expect to be connected.”

​

The department insists that it is looking for “value for money” and that wi-fi is low on passenger’s priorities, particularly on shorter journeys. It is also examining whether or not to upgrade wi-fi equipment, installed in the middle of the last decade, on longer routes.
The government championed the introduction of free wi-fi in 2015, calling it an “important service for passengers”. It added: “All train operators bidding for new franchises and direct award agreements will have to include this specification in their bid.”
Where franchises were not up for renewal, the department allocated £50 million in funding to install wi-fi on trains, specifically commuter services run by Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern, Southeastern, Chiltern and Arriva Trains Wales.
Bruce Williamson from the passenger campaign group Railfuture said: “One of the great things about travelling by train is that you can work or watch a video or listen to a podcast — and wi-fi is pretty essential for that. We should be encouraging passengers to get back on the trains and this is a good example of a move that is going to make rail less attractive.”

​

The department cited a report by Transport Focus, the watchdog, which found that wi-fi on trains was a lower priority for passengers than other features. The survey included essentials as value-for-money fares, reliability, punctuality and personal security.
The department said: “Our railways are currently not financially sustainable, and it is unfair to continue asking taxpayers to foot the bill, which is why reform of all aspects of the railways is essential.”

 

[Benjwri]

I don't think I've been on a train in a while where the WiFi could actually load the BBC homepage, so not actually sure how many people this will affect. (At Least in the GWR/XC area I live in)

 

[Clayton]

Seems a bit crazy as a lot of people like to work on laptops. Being able to do this is something that sets trains apart from other forms of transport. On my phone I just use my data.

 

[L401CJF]

As daft as it seems, this would cause a lot of upset - I have had passengers get quite angry in the past because the WiFi isn't working - I actually got properly screamed at by a guy in a suit with his laptop because the WiFi wasn't working in his coach and he had work to do. What is the world coming to!

Believe it or not the most common complaints I get are not "why is the train 30minutes late" but rather "why is/are the WiFi/plug sockets not working".

I do agree with the above post that on train WiFi is usually too poor to do anything anyway, I personally prefer to use my 4/5G as I get pretty decent signal in most of my area.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If I'm totally honest I'd far rather have on train Wi-Fi ditched in favor of USB sockets and as pointed out lower fares and punctuality and again if I'm totally honest less generalized stress when using the railways in the first place

Admittedly as I now live on the Chatham mainline I do use southeasterns service if traveling between Rochester and the swanley area where there are several chunks of coverage not served particularly well by O2 network and therefore giffgaff but generally speaking I can't be bothered with on train Wi-Fi and my own bottomless data bundle is usually quite capable of fulfilling my needs


I do feel sorry for those who either don't have a network enabled device or bottomless data however and still do use on train services and I do sort of see the point being made by those who say it's a retrograde step

 

[Mojo]

I’ve always been somewhat confused in this day and age of mobile data why Tocs and the taxpayer have invested millions into on-train Wi-Fi. To me it has always been a thing where they fund this over any meaningful investment in the customer experience to give them some positive PR. The only exception possibly would be on rural routes in Scotland I have used it where there was no mobile signal but the Wi-Fi worked.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I’ve always been somewhat confused in this day and age of mobile data why Tocs and the taxpayer have invested millions into on-train Wi-Fi. To me it has always been a thing where they fund this over any meaningful investment in the customer experience to give them some positive PR. The only exception possibly would be on rural routes in Scotland I have used it where there was no mobile signal but the Wi-Fi worked.

Because not everybody can afford bottomless data, and free WiFi is about adding value to the services.

Even buses now have free WiFi in many areas, removing it from trains is senseless and another case of separating the haves from the have nots.

 

[londonteacher]

I love the overreaction to the possible removal of Wi-Fi. What did people do on trains before Wi-Fi? There are very few cases where you might need Wi-Fi on a train.

Maybe the DfT should do a limited trial. Charge for Wi-Fi for 2 months and remove access to the free Wi-Fi. If it is purchased and can cover its own costs then keep it, if it makes a loss then get rid of it!

 

[Snow1964]

Because not everybody can afford bottomless data, and free WiFi is about adding value to the services.

These days can get unlimited data for under £30/month, or under £1/day (assuming not linking a device purchase)

Not sure how many train tickets can be bought for under a £1 that gives you enough time to connect to Wi-Fi.

Seems a very weak argument that can afford the train ticket, but not some data. The couple of times I tried used it, was so slow I gave up.

 

[Trainguy34]

Seems a very weak argument that can afford the train ticket, but not some data. The couple of times I tried used it, was so slow I gave up.

The southeastern WiFi is quite good and consistent, good for needs such as checking traksy and Realtimetrains

 

[Dr Day]

For some, being able to do something via wifi on the train (whether work, leisure or simply browsing this forum) makes the difference between getting the train or driving. Your time is less ‘wasted’, everything else being equal.

 

[Re 4/4]

I’ve always been somewhat confused in this day and age of mobile data why Tocs and the taxpayer have invested millions into on-train Wi-Fi. To me it has always been a thing where they fund this over any meaningful investment in the customer experience to give them some positive PR. The only exception possibly would be on rural routes in Scotland I have used it where there was no mobile signal but the Wi-Fi worked.

Could it be a factor that they wanted to use it for market research purposes? Back in the day when phones were easier to track with the MAC address, offering wifi let you build up a database of 'one guy who does Guildford to London Monday-Thursday often goes to Brighton on Friday' and so on.

 

[yorksrob]

Won't be a biggie for me as I don't use it. However, it is very illustrative of how badly the Government are running the railway at present (as if we needed another reminder).

 

[Iskra]

It’s a complete non-story, train Wi-Fi is poor and increasingly redundant as mobile data coverage has improved massively, as have mobile data plans and their affordability. The numbers using it must be dwindling and it’s an unnecessary expense to install, maintain and transport the weight around in every carriage on the network. This is exactly the type of efficiency that should be being made, in order to preserve the actual train service itself.

Did anyone whine when pay-phones were removed from trains?

 

[Tom125]

I’ve never used on train WiFi, my 5G is always faster… I bet a lot like me won’t notice that it’s gone!

 

[GalaxyDog]

Wait, we had trains with payphones? (serious)

 

[AdamWW]

Believe it or not the most common complaints I get are not "why is the train 30minutes late" but rather "why is/are the WiFi/plug sockets not working".

That's really interesting - given that part of the justification for requiring operators to produce a business case justifying the continuation of free wifi is apparently that in surveys passengers put other things - including punctuality - as more important than wifi.

Though I don't know where they power plug sockets on their list of priorities.

I do agree with the above post that on train WiFi is usually too poor to do anything anyway, I personally prefer to use my 4/5G as I get pretty decent signal in most of my area.

On the trains I tend to use, I find that when the wifi is working it's usually better than my mobile data connection.

 

[yorksrob]

Wifi is "low on my list of priorities" but since we won't see any improvements prioritised in return (only more cuts) why should I accept it being given up ?

 

[AdamWW]

Wait, we had trains with payphones? (serious)

We did.

They weren't cheap to use though!

 

[Iskra]

1

Wait, we had trains with payphones? (serious)

158’s were where I last saw them

 

[gabrielhj07]

You can’t plug a train into a cable, so if the train can receive a signal for its Wi-Fi, then your phone will probably have service too. 99% of the time 4/5G is faster.

 

[Iskra]

Wifi is "low on my list of priorities" but since we won't see any improvements prioritised in return (only more cuts) why should I accept it being given up ?

Because it will translate in to fewer cuts to things that actually matter.

Only you could argue about something that you’re not bothered about

 

[westv]

Isn't there already a thread about this?

 

[AdamWW]

You can’t plug a train into a cable, so if the train can receive a signal for its Wi-Fi, then your phone will probably have service too. 99% of the time 4/5G is faster.

On the other hand free wifi is...well....free and if you're tethering to your laptop means using up phone battery the whole time (or more laptop battery if you charge the phone from it).

Not a problem if you have access to power but not all trains/seats do have that whereas wifi is usually throughout.

Isn't there already a thread about this?

There is a thread about something else which got hijacked to discuss this.

 

[yorksrob]

Because it will translate in to fewer cuts to things that actually matter.

Only you could argue about something that you’re not bothered about

Do you trust this Government enough to believe that this will result in fewer cuts elsewhere ? I certainly don't - particularly given the amount saved seems likely to be trivial anyway (given that the equipment apparently needs to be in place for train crews anyway).

Perhaps if the DfT could demonstrate how many carriages/seats on services etc will be saved in return for this cut, I might be persuaded.

 

[Iskra]

On the other hand free wifi is...well....free and if you're tethering to your laptop means using up phone battery the whole time (or more laptop battery if you charge the phone from it).

Not a problem if you have access to power but not all trains/seats do have that whereas wifi is usually throughout.



There is a thread about something else which got hijacked to discuss this.

It’s also public, not very secure and often ends up resulting in spam emails from signing up to it.

 

[AdamWW]

Do you trust this Government enough to believe that this will result in fewer cuts elsewhere ? I certainly don't - particularly given the amount saved seems likely to be trivial anyway (given that the equipment apparently needs to be in place for train crews anyway).

I don't think they've even said that.

So far as I can see they've said that TOCs need to produce a business case to justify the expenditure.

Presumably when wifi was originally introduced this is what they did internally.

Subsequently my memory (which might be wrong) is that free wifi started to become a requirement for franchises.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit, as a GTR user it is not something you can depend on when my route was operated by class 700s. Mainly because you didn't know if one with Wi-Fi would turn up. So I suspect if someone asked if it was a priority on that route it would be no. However on the WGC - London route, you do generally get a signal in tunnels / cuttings so it is useful in times of disruption so I would miss it. I have noticed that EE now have reception on the platforms towards Moorgate (as does the train) - so maybe if it is a better investment to get the mobile networks set up in the tunnels. Will that happen? Probably not as going from London - Edinburgh on the ECML there are lots of dead spots and the mobile networks haven't viewed filling them in for trian passengers as a priority so I can understand why we are having the debate.

Not sure on the buses how good it is on the rural routes,

I think the business case will be challenging - take GTR "Great Northern", Am I really going to drive because the trains doesn't have wi-fi (or use the train over driving because it does). It is a nice to have on many suburban routes, but I doubt it makes any revenue in terms of people using the service. However I can see on the long distance routes it does offer an advantage over flying as you can use your travelling time to work. However on the IC journeys, I don't do work that needs constant connection to the internet. I can't use cloud based applications for example on the Eurostar.

 

[AdamWW]

It’s also public, not very secure and often ends up resulting in spam emails from signing up to it.

I once sat across the aisle from a young lad merrily probing other computers on the train network from his laptop.

He was next to what I assume was his mother, who may not have realised what it was that he was doing...

 

[jagardner1984]

Shouldn’t forget there are considerable areas where rolling stock design and the terrain are not conducive to consistent reception - and therefore the train Wifi kit being higher powered and closer to the outside world gives more prospect of coverage, however slow it may be.

The Pendolinos and northern WCML are both notable for this.

On a 4 hour journey, in first class at least, coverage seems to be an important part of the offer.

As a relatively small intercity fleet of 500 ish carriages on the WCML, for example, that is a fairly small part of the overall cost.

On a 10 min commuter journey in and around London - where continuous coverage is widespread and the fleets involved massively larger, I would agree the case for increased public subsidy to fund the provision is very weak.