*UPDATED* Idea Greater Bristol area redraw

Status
Not open for further replies.

plcd1

Member
Joined
23 May 2015
Messages
788
I can't do a major critique of your ideas as I'm simply not familiar enough with Bristol and its local districts and relative demand levels.

Having tried to plot a way round to do the "Shaun the Sheep" trails in the outer bits of Bristol I have found the existing services / frequencies to be just about hopeless. I know it's down to deregulation and high car usage but so many links between outer areas are dreadful / impossible to do in any sensible fashion. Bus stops are badly located for interchange where routes on main corridors come together - I assume this is to allow all the cars to get through junctions unimpeded.

Trying to plot changes between routes fall to bits because there's no concept of people changing buses and buses just miss each other leaving you with 29-59 minute waits because frequencies are so low. Clearly there are profitable corridors but some main roads have dreadful levels of frequency compared to what you'd get in many places.

I'll admit my expectations are framed through "London eyes" so I'm very spoilt with TfL type frequencies but it is immensely difficult to plot journeys when you're reliant on very low frequency, occasional services to get between districts. And all that's before actually getting to Bristol and seeing how services perform in reality rather than timetable theory. :|

The last time I visited I used the buses to get to a local area. On arriving at my destination the locals were shocked that I'd got there on the bus as they thought the buses were beyond the pale. They were insistent that I didn't use a bus back and gave me a lift in a car! :lol: If that's what the residents think then First Group have a big fight on their hands as does the Mayor, Mr Ferguson.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
It's not just frequencies it's buses travelling more sensible routes too! No one wants to go on buses that go around the houses! I hope my idea improves the balance! I could see it working IF it was run as one public owned company! But I know the likely hood is next to zero! But I want to try and prove that it could be done!
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I am surprised because I've lived out in Hanham, Kingswood and Norton and know those routes very well. They don't reflect my experiences.

First of all, take the 31 and 32, and look at the recent experience of the 42. There's an untapped market? Is there? Why would people from St Annes or Stockwood want to travel to Keynsham ? What would drive the traffic in preference to Bristol city centre?
I think we can say you won’t get end to end traffic; that is for certain because people will naturally get the direct services along the Bath Road. Also, the loss of the 36 means that you’re losing the link with South Bristol Hospital and I question what is doing Barton Hill – I can see some convoluted 17 but at a lower frequency?

However, your comments about the X39 really highlight a real issue in understanding some fundamentals of bus service provision, and I don't think you've checked as much as you should have:

Basically the idea of the X34 being less frequent than the X39 is now is to try and shift people on to the 33 and 34 to make them more viable (I know some people wouldn't like a slightly longer trip but at the end of the day they would just get the other services as the ultimate destination is the same! And possibly making the X34 more of a limited stop service (Especially from Keynsham - Bristol) to try and make it more of an express service!

The reason why the X39 works and is popular is because of two things, viz frequency and end to end duration. People will not transfer as you think – it just doesn’t happen and why would they?.

Why would anyone want to travel end to end on your new stopping services (variations on the current 38/39) that would take 20 minutes longer than the alternative express; in fact, if you speed that up, the differential is greater? For instance, look at your frequencies, durations and possible times.

Your 12:00 34 from Bath arrives in Bristol at 13:10. However, a passenger can get your speeded up 12:10 X34 and arrive there at 12:55. They're just not going to transfer.

Instead, you compound the issue by discouraging passengers full stop by making the X39 (X34 in your plan) every 20 mins so it discourages passengers; research and experience shows that a 15 min or better frequency makes people “turn up and travel”. A wider headway makes people stop and think and that’s when they may make alternative arrangements (e.g. grab the car, lift share, etc).

Think you need to rethink these plans and the ones to MSN. I travel on the 178 and 379 regularly and I don’t recognise the problem that you’re trying to solve with those Keynsham to MSN routes. Essentially, you’re pulling apart one service and removing another to provide Camerton with a direct link to Bristol.

I'm not being negative but it's feedback borne of experience (locally and in the industry) and doing some simple checks on times.
 

ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
Messages
6,032
Location
Cardiff/Bristol
It's not just frequencies it's buses travelling more sensible routes too! No one wants to go on buses that go around the houses! I hope my idea improves the balance! I could see it working IF it was run as one public owned company! But I know the likely hood is next to zero! But I want to try and prove that it could be done!
I completely agree with TGW's comments I'm sorry. As I said before, I absolutely LOVE your enthusiasm, and you have clearly sat down and looked at this in a lot of detail which I admire you for, but unfortunately you've really bitten off more than you can chew with some bus routes.

You've expressed the feeling that some passengers would just get 'on any bus that comes along', yet in the section of your post which I have emboldened, you've just said nobody wants to go all around the houses, which completely contradicts what you've said? The X39 for examples goes along the Keynsham by-pass, making the journey at least 10-15 minutes quicker as, as the clue in the sentence suggests, it avoids Keynsham. Nobody will want to go on a longer bus route unless they are enthusiasts; people have places to be and people to see. For instance, when I was at UWE and the X74 was introduced I would always opt for that to get into centre and not the 70/71 as they go down Gloucester Road which is very busy in the evening peaks. I would obviously much rather opt for a bus that flies straight down the M32.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
Keynsham is growing! With at least a 1000 new homes, from 2014-2019. There will be additional demand to get to and from Bristol and Bath (Agreed there isn't ever going to be significant Keynsham to Kingswood demand!) Bristol most likely being a bigger draw.

Also I personally wouldn't risk waiting up to an additional 15 mins for a bus that would get me to my destination 10 mins earlier! If the bus was late ect. So I do think people would get a slower bus.

Plenty of times I have been in the centre wanting to get a bus back to Henbury so I see what turns up first the 1 or 76! If a 76 turns up first I will get that even though if I waited for a 1 I might get home earlier. Id rather have a warm seat and know I am en route, rather than wait standing at a bus stop/station for a bus that might not turn up on time!

And I have seen plenty of people simply get on the first bus to the destination, weather it be the quickest or not! Take the X49, people get it from Bristol - Yate if it is there even though it is not the fastest option!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And round the houses was using the 42 to get from Keynsham to the Centre.

And a few more routes I have added!

29: Bristol Airport - Cribbs Causeway (As service A2 to Portishead then to Cribbs, every 60 mins, single decker)

501: Portway Park & Ride (As service 902, but a diversion to serve the BRI, every 10 mins, single decker)

502: Patchway Park & Ride (New Park & Ride, based on part of the old Rolls Royce site at Patchway, every 10 mins, single decker)

503: Lyde Green Park & Ride (Basically the already proposed site at Lyde Green, hopefully linking into a new M4 Motorway junction, and with links to Yate. every 10 mins, single decker)

504: Brislington Park & Ride (Same as 904, every 10 mins, single decker)

505: Whitchurch Park & Ride (New park & ride on the A37 near Whitchurch, every 10 mins, single decker)

506: Long Ashton Park & Ride (Same as 903, every 10 mins, single decker)

A few things before anyone moans! The 903 is proposed to be replaced with a single decker service every 20 mins, under metrobus.

I don't think an M32 Park & Ride would work as it wouldn't speed things up for travellers, just slow them down!

Patchway Park & Ride could cater for new housing at Filton as well as people from the North/Wales coming off the motorway.

Lyde Green Park & Ride could help people from Wotton-under-Edge/Yate and people coming from the East along the M4.

Whitchurch Park & Ride would probably be the quieter of the routes but would still be useful.
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Keynsham is growing! With at least a 1000 new homes, from 2014-2019. There will be additional demand to get to and from Bristol and Bath (Agreed there isn't ever going to be significant Keynsham to Kingswood demand!) Bristol most likely being a bigger draw.

Also I personally wouldn't risk waiting up to an additional 15 mins for a bus that would get me to my destination 10 mins earlier! If the bus was late ect. So I do think people would get a slower bus.

Plenty of times I have been in the centre wanting to get a bus back to Henbury so I see what turns up first the 1 or 76! If a 76 turns up first I will get that even though if I waited for a 1 I might get home earlier. Id rather have a warm seat and know I am en route, rather than wait standing at a bus stop/station for a bus that might not turn up on time!

And I have seen plenty of people simply get on the first bus to the destination, weather it be the quickest or not! Take the X49, people get it from Bristol - Yate if it is there even though it is not the fastest option!
I'm sorry but you're not correct.

It doesn't happen. I've seen it myself with people in Saltford waving through the 38 in favour of the X39 and why wouldn't they? Expecting someone to spend 50% longer on a bus than they have to? I'm sorry, it just doesn't happen. Really, it doesn't.

The general public don't want to go round the houses. You say that you understand that but then expect them to get a stopper that takes 50% longer. As Dan says, you're contradicting yourself. If what you were saying were true, you'd have people getting the 178 from Bath to Bristol. Some people do go to the stand but once they're told how long it takes, they toddle off and get the X39.

Where the time differential is minimal, people may elect to get a slightly slower bus. Getting either the 1 or the 76 from town to Henbury is 3 mins difference. Getting the X49 rather than another Yate machine is about 8 mins penalty. That's acceptable - 25 mins isn't and if your travelling public is so concerned that their express might not turn up and there's a 40 min gap in traffic, I'd be more concerned in sorting that out!

Keynsham is growing with the Somervale development in particular. However, that's housing. Not retail. Not attracting people from St Annes. It's a traffic source but not a destination. Instead, it's more people likely to commute into Bristol or Bath who won't be catching a bus into Bristol that runs via Stockwood.

As Dan says, I do appreciate how long you've spent on this. There are good things and I'm sure that First (and possibly others) will be recasting services to reflect the expansions at Charlton Hayes and Lyde Green. I commend your hard work and enthusiasm.

However, I learnt a lot from my dad (a bus driver of many years service) about why and where people travel, and I've also worked in the industry. There are no hard and fast rules but especially in terms of the X39, I think your proposal would damage that route without any benefit to the others.

When looking at bus services, look at who will travel, when and WHY. Yes you can run the 634 to Tormarton every two hours.....but why? Remove one service and structurally weaken another so that Camerton gets a direct bus to Bristol every hour....why?

Really, I can't stress enough that I'm not being mean. I just think you need to work it through and keep asking why someone would do X or Y?
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
The gap between the 1 and 76 can be a lot more than 3 mins!

And there is quite a lot of development near Queen Charlton part of Keynsham too!

I would even suggest things like my X34 going via Lower Bristol Road and Cabot Circus (Instead of the Centre) so more people would have to get the 33/34. I know you wont agree!

Also there are a number of services I wouldn't replace across the areas I have said about at the moment, such as 27, 614, 201, 623, 379, 349, X18, X73, 36, 462, 511, 672, 640, 683, 684, duplication on U.W.E routes.

Trust me this idea is majorly cut down from my original idea! If I am honest I am not a great fan on buses being run commercially!
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
The gap between the 1 and 76 can be a lot more than 3 mins!

And there is quite a lot of development near Queen Charlton part of Keynsham too!

I would even suggest things like my X34 going via Lower Bristol Road and Cabot Circus (Instead of the Centre) so more people would have to get the 33/34. I know you wont agree!

Also there are a number of services I wouldn't replace across the areas I have said about at the moment, such as 27, 614, 201, 623, 379, 349, X18, X73, 36, 462, 511, 672, 640, 683, 684, duplication on U.W.E routes.

Trust me this idea is majorly cut down from my original idea! If I am honest I am not a great fan on buses being run commercially!
3 mins is what is timetabled. If its 25 mins variance then people won't do it.

Keynsham is growing and I did say Somervale "in particular". 70% of Keynsham's new homes are going there. There are other developments but again there's no major industrial or retail development that will act as a destination for people from Stockwood or St Annes. Instead, it will merely add to Keynsham as a dormitory town for people working in Greater Bristol principally but I'm fine with the potential to have better links into Bath.

As for the X39, I'm sorry but you're getting it all wrong.

You're going to divert it away from the UBR and onto the LBR where a) there are fewer houses and potential passengers (the Uni flats are more likely to get trade to the Uni not to Bristol - hence the recent changes). You've also got the train to compete with from Oldfield Park.

You're cutting the frequency so less attractive for end to end passengers - the 15 vs 20 min phenomenon is well known in the bus industry! And you believe that people on the UBR will naturally transfer onto a bus that instead of taking 40-ish mins will take over an hour. Those who have no choice will have to; those who have a choice just won't.

That's like saying if you have a half full double decker running every 15 mins, then drop it to every 30 mins and you'll have a full decker. No you won't and it took 30 years of the bus industry getting it wrong to work that out (and arguably First kept on doing it in Moir's era).

Trying to prop up one service by pinching resource from another usually ends up with knackering the good service and pushing water uphill with the other.
 

ooo

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2015
Messages
707
Location
South west
If you could create a basic map it would make it much easier to understand where everything would go.

I do think the idea for more Park & Rides would be a good thing as they are currently very biased to the south of the city
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
If you could create a basic map it would make it much easier to understand where everything would go.

I do think the idea for more Park & Rides would be a good thing as they are currently very biased to the south of the city
Lyde Green makes sense. Patchway has its merits though wonder if something might be better located nearer Harry Stoke and UWE to link with the Metrobus route?

Whitchurch is a tricky one. Don't know where you'd locate it without affecting the green belt (e.g. as you enter Whitchurch Village) and the A37 has some bus priority measures but the various bottlenecks make it a bit piecemeal.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
If you could create a basic map it would make it much easier to understand where everything would go.

I do think the idea for more Park & Rides would be a good thing as they are currently very biased to the south of the city
I have been working on a hand drawn map!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
What about redirecting the 7+8 (8+9) to serve Cannons Marsh?
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
Slightly updated/improved/expanded with more of my thinking/justification.

1-9
1: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduced frequency made up for by new service 2. Eastern part of route taken over by service 31.

X1: Bristol Bus Station - Chepstow (Basically reverting to the old X14, serving Clifton, Westbury and Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, double decker)

2: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1 as far as Westbury Village, then route of service 508 to Airbus, Charlton Road, then across proposed new housing on the former Filton airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve the proposed housing on the western part of the former Filton airfield, it would also provide a faster trip from Clifton and Westbury to Cribbs, as well as additional capacity. I only have it serving Henbury Road and Northover road so that area maintains a regular service and allows for the 508 to go. Also there is quite a lot of housing currently off of Charlton Road which I think is under served by the 508 so could see this service being very welcomed.

3: Temple Meads - Severn Beach (Route of current service 624, 2 trips in each direction per day, single decker)

To ensure Hallen and Compton Greenfield maintains a service as well as Severn beach to the centre.

4: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 2, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduction in frequency partly made up for by the new service 72. Southern part taken over by new service 52.

5: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 3, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

6: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 4, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

7: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Temple Meads - Centre - Cotham - Redland - Downs - Clifton - then Jacobs Wells road, Anchor Road, Cannons Road and Explore Way then back to Temple Meads, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

8: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Reverse of route 7, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

9: Bristol Parkway - Avonmouth (U.W.E - Cheswick - Lockleaze - Horfield - Westbury - Coombe Dingle [route of 508] - Lawrence Weston - Shirehampton - Avonmouth [route of 501] every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

10-19
10: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of former 25, every 15 mins, single decker)

11: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of 77, every 30 mins, single decker)

Used to be every 30 mins, and I think with minor changes it could handle it again.

12: Southmead Hospital - Severn Beach (route of 625, every 60 mins, single decker)

Possible slight route change in Little Stoke/Patchway to make journey times better.

13: Southmead Hospital - Wotton-under-Edge (route of 77 to Thornbury then Falfield and Charfield, every 60 mins, single decker)

Basically the northern part of the 77 but serving Charfield, So the 79 (Old 87) can be rerouted and then Wotton-under-Edge still maintains a link to Southmead Hospital.

14: Southmead Hospital - Chipping Sodbury (route of 82 but avoiding Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, single decker)

A much more simple/direct route, as there would be no need to serve Cribbs or Wotton-under-Edge.

15: Southmead Hospital - Lyde Green (route of 18, every 30 mins, single decker)

16: Southmead Hospital - Keynsham (route of 17A, every 30 mins, single decker)

17: Southmead Hospital - Brislington Park & Ride (route of 506 to Barton Hill, then as 513/514 to Brislington then to the Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

18: Southmead Hospital - Long Ashton Park & Ride (route of 505, every 30 mins, single decker)

19: Southmead Hospital - Portway Park & Ride (To Shirehampton Green as 18/501/502 then via Shirehampton Dursley Road to Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

20-29
20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As W1, every 30 mins, single decker)

X20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As X1, every 30 mins, double decker)

21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X9, every 30 mins, single decker)

X21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X8, every 30 mins, double decker)

22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (Via Nailsea, as the old X8 and 355, Sunday evenings only, single decker)

X22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (As X6, every 30 mins, double decker)

23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Serving Pill, Sheepway, Portishead Docks, every 30 mins, single decker)

X23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Express to Portishead, every 30 mins, double decker)

24: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 506, calling at Create, every 30 mins, single decker)

25: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 11, via Southville, every 30 mins, single decker)

26: Broadmead - Ashton Vale (As service 24, every 15 mins, single decker)

29: Bristol Airport - Cribbs Causeway (As service A2 and X5, every 60 mins, single decker)

30-39
31: Broadmead - Keynsham (Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - St Annes - Broomhill - then onto Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Eastern part of service 1, providing St Annes with a more direct service than the 36 to the centre, also providing an onward link to Keynsham. Improving links to Temple Meads (With the new arena and other development)

32: Broadmead - Keynsham (As service 57 to Stockwood, then as 636 to Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Maintaining a link to the centre from Brislington (Callington Road) and make up for reduced capacity on the 52 (old 2) to Stockwood.

33: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 39, but running via Wellsway and the 178 loop, every 30 mins, single decker)

34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 38, every 30 mins, single decker)

X34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service X39, every 20 mins, double decker)

Making the service limited stop, to try and compete further with the train for end to end traffic.

36: Bristol Bus Station - Radstock (As 178 but avoiding Timsbury, every 60 mins, single decker)

37: Bristol Bus Station - Midsomer Norton (As 668, every 60 mins, single decker)

39: Bristol Airport - Bath (As A4, every 60 mins, single decker)

40-49
40: Broad Quay - Staple Hill (As 7, every 20 mins, double decker)

41: Broad Quay - Kingswood (As 6, every 20 mins, double decker)

42: Bristol Bus Station - Tormarton (As 35 to Kingswood then as 634, every 180 mins, single decker)

43: Bristol Bus Station - Marshfield (As 35, every 180 mins, single decker)

44: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

45: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

46: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 45, every 20 mins, double decker)

47: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 44, every 20 mins, double decker)

48: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

49: Cribbs Causeway - Bath (As service 319 but calling Via Charlton Hayes and from Kingswood serving Hanham and Longwell Green as 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

50-59
50: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 50, every 20 mins, double decker)

51: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 51, every 20 mins, double decker)

52: Broadmead - Stockwood (As service 2, every 20 mins, single decker)

53: Broadmead - Stockwood (As old service 55 direct up Wells Road, every 20 mins, single decker)

59: Keynsham - Hengrove (As service 637 and then 515, every 60 mins, single decker)

60-69
60: Broad Quay - U.W.E (As service 13 and 48A, every 12 mins, double decker)

61: Broad Quay - Bromley Heath (As service 24 to Eastville then service 5, every 30 mins, single decker)

62: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 626, but continuing direct to Dursley, 2 trips a day, single decker)

63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service 46 to Winterbourne then as X46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 30 mins, single decker)

X63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service X46 to Winterbourne then as 46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 60 min, double decker)

To provide the main population centres of Chipping Sodbury, Yate, Coalpit Heath, Frampton Cotterell and Winterbourne with a regular express service.

64: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service 47, every 30 mins, single decker)

65: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 48, every 15 mins, double decker)

66: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 49, every 15 mins, double decker)

67: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service X49, every 60 mins, single decker)

70-79
70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 12,71, every 12 mins, double decker)

X70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As X14, X74, every 12 mins, double decker)

71: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70, every 12 mins, double decker)

72: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70 to The Arches then Redland and Henleaze, every 12 mins, double decker)

To maintain a Redland to U.W.E link and maintain a frequent service to Henleaze. As well as new Redland - Henleaze link

73: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 but avoiding Southmead, every 15 mins, double decker)

Basically the old 77 to provide a quicker service to/from Henbury.

74: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 to Southmead then via Charlton Road, Filton Airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve new development as per service 2.

75: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 75, every 15 mins, double decker)

Patchway will have more buses as the 76 will additional serve that area.

76: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 73 then calling at Aztec West using bus link to Patchway and onto Cribbs, every 15 mins, double decker)

To create a regular link to Aztec West and without increasing the route length.

77: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78 to Horfield, then Bristol Parkway, Bradley Stoke and onwards to Thornbury, every 60 mins, single decker)

78: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78, every 60 mins, single decker)

X78: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 79 to Thornbury then as 88 to Dursley, every 120 mins, single decker)

79: Cribbs Causeway - Dursley (As service 87, every 120 mins, single decker)

80-89
80: Yate - Keynsham (As service 86 to Kingswood then onward to Keynsham, every 120 mins, single decker)

81: Yate - Bath (As 620, every 120 mins, single decker)

82: Yate - Malmesbury (As 41, every 120 mins, single decker)

83: Yate - Tetbury (As 27/622, every 120 mins, single decker)

88: Yate - Cribbs Causeway (As 82, every 60 mins, single decker)

To maintain Yate - Cribbs link and allow faster links to Southmead Hospital

90-99
90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As 21/22 to Highridge, then Dundry, Winford, Felton and on to Bristol Airport, every 120 mins, single decker)

X90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As A1, every 10 mins, single decker)

91: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 52, every 30 mins, single decker)

92: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 75, every 12 mins, double decker)

93: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 76, every 12 mins, double decker)

94: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90 and 36, every 12 mins, single decker)

To make up for losing the 36 and to possibly remove the need for the 511 and 512.

95: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90, every 12 mins, single decker)

99: Hengrove - Bower Ashton (Via Hengrove Park, Bedminster Down and Ashton Gate, every 60 mins, single decker)

100+
125: Weston-super-Mare - Wells (As service 26/126, but serving Wookey Hole, every 60 mins, single decker)

130: Bath - Wells (As service 173, every 60 mins, single decker)

131: Bath - Wells (As service 174, every 60 mins, single decker)

Still plenty more to follow when I have gone through the remaining services![/QUOTE]
 

THarris123

Established Member
Joined
20 Apr 2014
Messages
2,820
Location
Wells, Somerset
Slightly updated/improved/expanded with more of my thinking/justification.

1-9
1: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduced frequency made up for by new service 2. Eastern part of route taken over by service 31.

X1: Bristol Bus Station - Chepstow (Basically reverting to the old X14, serving Clifton, Westbury and Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, double decker)

2: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1 as far as Westbury Village, then route of service 508 to Airbus, Charlton Road, then across proposed new housing on the former Filton airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve the proposed housing on the western part of the former Filton airfield, it would also provide a faster trip from Clifton and Westbury to Cribbs, as well as additional capacity. I only have it serving Henbury Road and Northover road so that area maintains a regular service and allows for the 508 to go. Also there is quite a lot of housing currently off of Charlton Road which I think is under served by the 508 so could see this service being very welcomed.

3: Temple Meads - Severn Beach (Route of current service 624, 2 trips in each direction per day, single decker)

To ensure Hallen and Compton Greenfield maintains a service as well as Severn beach to the centre.

4: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 2, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduction in frequency partly made up for by the new service 72. Southern part taken over by new service 52.

5: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 3, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

6: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 4, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

7: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Temple Meads - Centre - Cotham - Redland - Downs - Clifton - then Jacobs Wells road, Anchor Road, Cannons Road and Explore Way then back to Temple Meads, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

8: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Reverse of route 7, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

9: Bristol Parkway - Avonmouth (U.W.E - Cheswick - Lockleaze - Horfield - Westbury - Coombe Dingle [route of 508] - Lawrence Weston - Shirehampton - Avonmouth [route of 501] every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

10-19
10: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of former 25, every 15 mins, single decker)

11: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of 77, every 30 mins, single decker)

Used to be every 30 mins, and I think with minor changes it could handle it again.

12: Southmead Hospital - Severn Beach (route of 625, every 60 mins, single decker)

Possible slight route change in Little Stoke/Patchway to make journey times better.

13: Southmead Hospital - Wotton-under-Edge (route of 77 to Thornbury then Falfield and Charfield, every 60 mins, single decker)

Basically the northern part of the 77 but serving Charfield, So the 79 (Old 87) can be rerouted and then Wotton-under-Edge still maintains a link to Southmead Hospital.

14: Southmead Hospital - Chipping Sodbury (route of 82 but avoiding Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, single decker)

A much more simple/direct route, as there would be no need to serve Cribbs or Wotton-under-Edge.

15: Southmead Hospital - Lyde Green (route of 18, every 30 mins, single decker)

16: Southmead Hospital - Keynsham (route of 17A, every 30 mins, single decker)

17: Southmead Hospital - Brislington Park & Ride (route of 506 to Barton Hill, then as 513/514 to Brislington then to the Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

18: Southmead Hospital - Long Ashton Park & Ride (route of 505, every 30 mins, single decker)

19: Southmead Hospital - Portway Park & Ride (To Shirehampton Green as 18/501/502 then via Shirehampton Dursley Road to Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

20-29
20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As W1, every 30 mins, single decker)

X20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As X1, every 30 mins, double decker)

21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X9, every 30 mins, single decker)

X21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X8, every 30 mins, double decker)

22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (Via Nailsea, as the old X8 and 355, Sunday evenings only, single decker)

X22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (As X6, every 30 mins, double decker)

23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Serving Pill, Sheepway, Portishead Docks, every 30 mins, single decker)

X23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Express to Portishead, every 30 mins, double decker)

24: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 506, calling at Create, every 30 mins, single decker)

25: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 11, via Southville, every 30 mins, single decker)

26: Broadmead - Ashton Vale (As service 24, every 15 mins, single decker)

29: Bristol Airport - Cribbs Causeway (As service A2 and X5, every 60 mins, single decker)

30-39
31: Broadmead - Keynsham (Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - St Annes - Broomhill - then onto Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Eastern part of service 1, providing St Annes with a more direct service than the 36 to the centre, also providing an onward link to Keynsham. Improving links to Temple Meads (With the new arena and other development)

32: Broadmead - Keynsham (As service 57 to Stockwood, then as 636 to Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Maintaining a link to the centre from Brislington (Callington Road) and make up for reduced capacity on the 52 (old 2) to Stockwood.

33: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 39, but running via Wellsway and the 178 loop, every 30 mins, single decker)

34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 38, every 30 mins, single decker)

X34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service X39, every 20 mins, double decker)

Making the service limited stop, to try and compete further with the train for end to end traffic.

36: Bristol Bus Station - Radstock (As 178 but avoiding Timsbury, every 60 mins, single decker)

37: Bristol Bus Station - Midsomer Norton (As 668, every 60 mins, single decker)

39: Bristol Airport - Bath (As A4, every 60 mins, single decker)

40-49
40: Broad Quay - Staple Hill (As 7, every 20 mins, double decker)

41: Broad Quay - Kingswood (As 6, every 20 mins, double decker)

42: Bristol Bus Station - Tormarton (As 35 to Kingswood then as 634, every 180 mins, single decker)

43: Bristol Bus Station - Marshfield (As 35, every 180 mins, single decker)

44: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

45: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

46: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 45, every 20 mins, double decker)

47: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 44, every 20 mins, double decker)

48: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

49: Cribbs Causeway - Bath (As service 319 but calling Via Charlton Hayes and from Kingswood serving Hanham and Longwell Green as 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

50-59
50: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 50, every 20 mins, double decker)

51: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 51, every 20 mins, double decker)

52: Broadmead - Stockwood (As service 2, every 20 mins, single decker)

53: Broadmead - Stockwood (As old service 55 direct up Wells Road, every 20 mins, single decker)

59: Keynsham - Hengrove (As service 637 and then 515, every 60 mins, single decker)

60-69
60: Broad Quay - U.W.E (As service 13 and 48A, every 12 mins, double decker)

61: Broad Quay - Bromley Heath (As service 24 to Eastville then service 5, every 30 mins, single decker)

62: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 626, but continuing direct to Dursley, 2 trips a day, single decker)

63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service 46 to Winterbourne then as X46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 30 mins, single decker)

X63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service X46 to Winterbourne then as 46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 60 min, double decker)

To provide the main population centres of Chipping Sodbury, Yate, Coalpit Heath, Frampton Cotterell and Winterbourne with a regular express service.

64: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service 47, every 30 mins, single decker)

65: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 48, every 15 mins, double decker)

66: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 49, every 15 mins, double decker)

67: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service X49, every 60 mins, single decker)

70-79
70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 12,71, every 12 mins, double decker)

X70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As X14, X74, every 12 mins, double decker)

71: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70, every 12 mins, double decker)

72: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70 to The Arches then Redland and Henleaze, every 12 mins, double decker)

To maintain a Redland to U.W.E link and maintain a frequent service to Henleaze. As well as new Redland - Henleaze link

73: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 but avoiding Southmead, every 15 mins, double decker)

Basically the old 77 to provide a quicker service to/from Henbury.

74: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 to Southmead then via Charlton Road, Filton Airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve new development as per service 2.

75: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 75, every 15 mins, double decker)

Patchway will have more buses as the 76 will additional serve that area.

76: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 73 then calling at Aztec West using bus link to Patchway and onto Cribbs, every 15 mins, double decker)

To create a regular link to Aztec West and without increasing the route length.

77: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78 to Horfield, then Bristol Parkway, Bradley Stoke and onwards to Thornbury, every 60 mins, single decker)

78: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78, every 60 mins, single decker)

X78: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 79 to Thornbury then as 88 to Dursley, every 120 mins, single decker)

79: Cribbs Causeway - Dursley (As service 87, every 120 mins, single decker)

80-89
80: Yate - Keynsham (As service 86 to Kingswood then onward to Keynsham, every 120 mins, single decker)

81: Yate - Bath (As 620, every 120 mins, single decker)

82: Yate - Malmesbury (As 41, every 120 mins, single decker)

83: Yate - Tetbury (As 27/622, every 120 mins, single decker)

88: Yate - Cribbs Causeway (As 82, every 60 mins, single decker)

To maintain Yate - Cribbs link and allow faster links to Southmead Hospital

90-99
90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As 21/22 to Highridge, then Dundry, Winford, Felton and on to Bristol Airport, every 120 mins, single decker)

X90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As A1, every 10 mins, single decker)

91: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 52, every 30 mins, single decker)

92: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 75, every 12 mins, double decker)

93: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 76, every 12 mins, double decker)

94: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90 and 36, every 12 mins, single decker)

To make up for losing the 36 and to possibly remove the need for the 511 and 512.

95: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90, every 12 mins, single decker)

99: Hengrove - Bower Ashton (Via Hengrove Park, Bedminster Down and Ashton Gate, every 60 mins, single decker)

100+
125: Weston-super-Mare - Wells (As service 26/126, but serving Wookey Hole, every 60 mins, single decker)

130: Bath - Wells (As service 173, every 60 mins, single decker)

131: Bath - Wells (As service 174, every 60 mins, single decker)

Still plenty more to follow when I have gone through the remaining services!
[/QUOTE]

Well we're beginning to get there I think a bit.

There still seems to be a lot of unnecessary renumbering (like the 125, 130 and 131 - I honestly can't see the point in that) and silly numbering (like renumbering 90 to be 95 and the 70 to be 71, 73 to 76, etc). There are also some routes where I agree with GW where they can't possibly be profitable. For example having a 20 minute service for 636 and an hourly service for 668. Out of all the bus routes that Somerbus do, the 668 is the least profitable and that's even council funded. They do not get any demand on that and Mr Somerbus really wants to withdraw from that service, in the same way that 754 went. There just isn't the demand. The 636 is in that same bag, but as it interworks with his other routes, it keeps surviving. I'd personally love some of those services to come in to some of my local areas, but there just wouldn't be the point as nobody would use them.

I quite like some of your ideas in this however. The 50-53 seem to be a good idea, as does the Portishead, Clevedon and Nailsea services (I just wouldn't number them in the 20 range), but then there's a lot of stuff which I really think you need to think over again.

I know I couldn't come up with such plans as these and I've nearly explored every last service around WoE, so I do take my hat off to you for this. You'll get there.
 

Busaholic

Established Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
9,292
My knowledge of Bristol bus services is of thirty years ago when I attended Bristol University, so I certainly can't comment in any detail, but it strikes me that some at least of your proposals are returning to the service patterns as I remember them from then! The 53, which you propose direct along the Wells Road to Stockwood, mirrors the 55 which was the nearest route to where I lived in Hengrove: I could use the 51,54 or 55 to get into Bristol, but none of them, nor the Bedminster or Brislington routes, continued up Park Street, which was always a bugbear as far as I was concerned. Going home was always a lot easier, apart from Park Street being downhill all the way, the three routes all left from the same stop, whereas in the morning I would have to make a decision as to which stop to aim for.

All in all, though, a very commendable piece of work, the sort I used to relish with areas of London when everything was not only controlled by, but operated by, London Transport.

Incidentally, is Bristol the only major city in England which has as its greatly predominant bus operator basically the same one as 30 years ago just after privatisation? I wouldn't include Nat Ex in Birmingham, though some might.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
Well we're beginning to get there I think a bit.

There still seems to be a lot of unnecessary renumbering (like the 125, 130 and 131 - I honestly can't see the point in that) and silly numbering (like renumbering 90 to be 95 and the 70 to be 71, 73 to 76, etc). There are also some routes where I agree with GW where they can't possibly be profitable. For example having a 20 minute service for 636 and an hourly service for 668. Out of all the bus routes that Somerbus do, the 668 is the least profitable and that's even council funded. They do not get any demand on that and Mr Somerbus really wants to withdraw from that service, in the same way that 754 went. There just isn't the demand. The 636 is in that same bag, but as it interworks with his other routes, it keeps surviving. I'd personally love some of those services to come in to some of my local areas, but there just wouldn't be the point as nobody would use them.

I quite like some of your ideas in this however. The 50-53 seem to be a good idea, as does the Portishead, Clevedon and Nailsea services (I just wouldn't number them in the 20 range), but then there's a lot of stuff which I really think you need to think over again.

I know I couldn't come up with such plans as these and I've nearly explored every last service around WoE, so I do take my hat off to you for this. You'll get there.
This is more as if it was operated by a publicly owned company (So not all routes would have to be the most profitable) and if it was a clean start. Each corridor has it's own set of numbers.

1-9 A4018
10-19 Southmead Hospital Services
20-29 A369, A370
30-39 A4 (East)
40-49 A420, A431
50-59 A37
60-69 A432
70-79 A38 (North)
80-89 Yate Services
90-99 A38 (South)

So ultimately it would be much easier for people! Example knowing anything in the 40's would serve St George not (6,7,35,37,42,43,44,45) as now.
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
This is more as if it was operated by a publicly owned company (So not all routes would have to be the most profitable) and if it was a clean start. Each corridor has it's own set of numbers.

1-9 A4018
10-19 Southmead Hospital Services
20-29 A369, A370
30-39 A4 (East)
40-49 A420, A431
50-59 A37
60-69 A432
70-79 A38 (North)
80-89 Yate Services
90-99 A38 (South)

So ultimately it would be much easier for people! Example knowing anything in the 40's would serve St George not (6,7,35,37,42,43,44,45) as now.
Again, to reiterate what other people have said, this has clearly been a labour of love and testament to the work you've put in. Also, you've also looked at some parts of it so credit where it's due.

Appreciate that you are saying that "not all routes would have to be the most profitable". That's fine to say so and so you don't have to maximise profit.

However, there's a line between that and trying to push water uphill. Taking resources from one service and moving to another weaker one doesn't really work. Best will in the world, but you're going to struggle to get many people from Tormarton or Dyrham - just look at the cars on the drives (if indeed your eyesight can see up the drives - they're that long). Similarly, running from St Annes to Keynsham - why? Why would people make that journey? Or vice versa?

Another crucial Also, you must remember what makes a particular service work (and what doesn't). Something like the X39 works on being quick and frequent. You mention about speeding it up - if that's at the Bristol end (non stop from the last stop in Saltford until Temple Meads) then that makes sense - good idea!

However, dropping it to every 20 mins will make it uncompetitive - why get the bus if the train goes 5 times an hour and takes 18 minutes? The reason it can compete is that it is as frequent, goes into the centre and is cheaper (marginally). Of course, you have pointed to the additional stoppers - people won't use them to go to Bristol. Imagine - I arrive at 10:00 to discover I've just missed the X39. My options are

  • Get the 1015 "stopper" and get into Bristol city centre for 1125?
  • Wait til 1020 and get the X39 into Bristol city centre for 1110?
  • Get the 1009 train and be into TM for 10:28 and walk into town for 1050?

Either of the latter two options are much better than the stopper bus!

Same goes for the Weston service. I note the W1 get doubled (but with single decks?) but the X1 then falls to half hourly. Historically, the service was half hourly on the 352/3. The X1 was introduced and the faster journey time is what has enabled a 20 min service. People won't transfer to the W1 - why spend 1hr 20 when you can wait 15 mins, do it in 1h and still beat the W1 in?

Like I say, I do understand your aim but transference doesn't generally work. Never forget what makes a service "work".

I've said it before, and I'll repeat it, please don't think I'm just being negative. I think there are some good ideas like speeding the X39 up. Same with the Charlton Hayes ideas.

Perhaps you might think of an alternative to extending the 1 or 36 to Keynsham: why not have something like an X38 that runs around Chandag into Keynsham and then limited stop into Bristol instead of the 349?

Why not divert half the 319s at Oldland and resurrect the old 318. This means the remaining 319s have a clockface ex Bath with the 37 which could run limited stop from Hanham into Bristol. Run the 318 via Somerdale and then to Bath so it gives a link there?

Those might not be perfect ideas but I think there's some logic to them. I applaud your ambition and I know you've tempered some of the more exuberant aspects. I just think you need to be a little bit more detached - ask yourself where do people want to travel and why?
 
Last edited:

ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
Messages
6,032
Location
Cardiff/Bristol
Again, I completely agree with what TGW has to say. Furthermore, I still stand by my comments regarding your proposed 1-10 services. Does every single one of those routes need to go to Temple Meads? Is there really the demand for them? I think not. There are so many services at such, when combined together, a high frequency that I think you could get away with just having one or two services going to Temple Meads and the rest terminating at Broad Quay that involve a quick change onto a Temple Meads service anyway.

Your proposed 48 service, currently the 37, does not justify a half-hourly frequency. Slow stopping services, such as the 37 and the 38, take considerably longer and are not popular for those doing an end-to-end route. Look at the 42; that route was only two weeks ago cut back to Bitton. The same comments go for one of your Chipping Sodbury services. I can't remember which one but it does not justify a half-hourly service. I also don't think there is the demand for a Hengrove to Keynsham service.

I also notice you've cut First's link with Wotton-under-Edge and Cribbs Causeway which is a popular link. Is this going on the basis that STL's 87 would still be operating?

Again, a good plan, but look at the demand and whether or not people need these links. Furthermore, think about how many services you have terminating and the fleet you have.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
Again, I completely agree with what TGW has to say. Furthermore, I still stand by my comments regarding your proposed 1-10 services. Does every single one of those routes need to go to Temple Meads? Is there really the demand for them? I think not. There are so many services at such, when combined together, a high frequency that I think you could get away with just having one or two services going to Temple Meads and the rest terminating at Broad Quay that involve a quick change onto a Temple Meads service anyway.

Your proposed 48 service, currently the 37, does not justify a half-hourly frequency. Slow stopping services, such as the 37 and the 38, take considerably longer and are not popular for those doing an end-to-end route. Look at the 42; that route was only two weeks ago cut back to Bitton. The same comments go for one of your Chipping Sodbury services. I can't remember which one but it does not justify a half-hourly service. I also don't think there is the demand for a Hengrove to Keynsham service.

I also notice you've cut First's link with Wotton-under-Edge and Cribbs Causeway which is a popular link. Is this going on the basis that STL's 87 would still be operating?

Again, a good plan, but look at the demand and whether or not people need these links. Furthermore, think about how many services you have terminating and the fleet you have.
As I said this is IF all services where operated by just one publicly owned company so Firsts link has nothing to do with it!

Temple Meads will start to play a more prominent roll and slightly shift the central area of Bristol towards there.

The whole point is removing the need for everyone to change buses in just 1 place (Broad Quay)

With all services serving 2 of 3 interchanges (Broadmead, Broad Quay and Temple Meads) it removes that need.

With Yate services you are talking about the 63, but North Yate does justify a more regular service. Which the current X46 can't deliver.

Also you have to remember there is a need for people to get to South Bristol Community Hospital and the bits around Hengrove.
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
As I said this is IF all services where operated by just one publicly owned company so Firsts link has nothing to do with it!

Temple Meads will start to play a more prominent roll and slightly shift the central area of Bristol towards there.

The whole point is removing the need for everyone to change buses in just 1 place (Broad Quay)

With all services serving 2 of 3 interchanges (Broadmead, Broad Quay and Temple Meads) it removes that need.

With Yate services you are talking about the 63, but North Yate does justify a more regular service. Which the current X46 can't deliver.

Also you have to remember there is a need for people to get to South Bristol Community Hospital and the bits around Hengrove.
I think we do appreciate your idea and with the Arena and other developments, the area around Temple Meads will become more important. However, the main area will still remain around Horsefair and the like.

Also, there is the concern from splitting the cross city routes.

  • What that will do is to remove some very long established links - that will not be popular! Cue picture in the Post of a pensioner who can't now travel from Sandy Park to Southmead to have their colostomy bag replumbed.....
  • You'll also have buses overlapping viz two halves of the current 2 - Stockwood - TM - Centre and TM - Centre - Cribbs. Now I guess the plan is to aid reliability. However, this is in the central area and the single busiest point in the city. So, as well as increasing the PVR (via the overlap), it will also compound the delays on those routes.

Understand why you might think it will be beneficial but might open a raft of problems up
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
I think we do appreciate your idea and with the Arena and other developments, the area around Temple Meads will become more important. However, the main area will still remain around Horsefair and the like.

Also, there is the concern from splitting the cross city routes.

  • What that will do is to remove some very long established links - that will not be popular! Cue picture in the Post of a pensioner who can't now travel from Sandy Park to Southmead to have their colostomy bag replumbed.....
  • You'll also have buses overlapping viz two halves of the current 2 - Stockwood - TM - Centre and TM - Centre - Cribbs. Now I guess the plan is to aid reliability. However, this is in the central area and the single busiest point in the city. So, as well as increasing the PVR (via the overlap), it will also compound the delays on those routes.

Understand why you might think it will be beneficial but might open a raft of problems up
That area would still be served by the "17" plus if you lived on Sandy Park chances are you would be going to the BRI and not Southmead. I get what you are saying but I would have different routings through. So I think with some improvements delays in the Central area can be relieved.

The 1 and 31 would run different routes. The 31 running Broadmead - Centre - Temple Meads (Via Victoria Street) and the 1 running Centre - Broadmead - Temple Meads (Via Old Market roundabout) so there wouldn't be quite as much overlapping.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
That area would still be served by the "17" plus if you lived on Sandy Park chances are you would be going to the BRI and not Southmead. I get what you are saying but I would have different routings through. So I think with some improvements delays in the Central area can be relieved.

The 1 and 31 would run different routes. The 31 running Broadmead - Centre - Temple Meads (Via Victoria Street) and the 1 running Centre - Broadmead - Temple Meads (Via Old Market roundabout) so there wouldn't be quite as much overlapping.
I choose the example of someone's colostomy bag slightly tongue in cheek ;) but severing some of those links will cause meltdown with the Post letters page!!

Also, appreciate that they may still take different routes but what is inescapable is that you will double the number of vehicles that run from the central area to Temple Meads for each route you split; the one part of the city that you probably don't want to do that at.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
I choose the example of someone's colostomy bag slightly tongue in cheek ;) but severing some of those links will cause meltdown with the Post letters page!!

Also, appreciate that they may still take different routes but what is inescapable is that you will double the number of vehicles that run from the central area to Temple Meads for each route you split; the one part of the city that you probably don't want to do that at.
I still think it could be achieved.
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
I think the biggest task would be bus stop improvements / minor relocations to make the most of the services I proposed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Updated again!

1-9
1: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduced frequency made up for by new service 2. Eastern part of route taken over by service 31.

X1: Bristol Bus Station - Chepstow (Basically reverting to the old X14, serving Clifton, Westbury and Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, double decker)

2: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1 as far as Westbury Village, then route of service 508 to Airbus, Charlton Road, then across proposed new housing on the former Filton airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve the proposed housing on the western part of the former Filton airfield, it would also provide a faster trip from Clifton and Westbury to Cribbs, as well as additional capacity. I only have it serving Henbury Road and Northover road so that area maintains a regular service and allows for the 508 to not be replaced. Also there is quite a lot of housing currently off of Charlton Road which I think is under served by the 508 so can see this service being very welcomed.

3: Temple Meads - Severn Beach (Route of current service 624, 2 trips in each direction per day, single decker)

To ensure Hallen and Compton Greenfield maintains a service as well as Severn beach to the centre.

4: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 2, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduction in frequency partly made up for by the new service 72. Southern part taken over by new service 52.

5: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 3, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

6: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 4, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

7: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Temple Meads - Centre - Cotham - Redland - Downs - Clifton - then Jacobs Wells road, Anchor Road, Cannons Road and Explore Way then back to Temple Meads, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

8: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Reverse of route 7, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

9: Bristol Parkway - Avonmouth (U.W.E - Cheswick - Lockleaze - Horfield - Westbury - Coombe Dingle [route of 508] - Lawrence Weston - Shirehampton - Avonmouth [route of 501] every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

10-19
10: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of former 25, every 15 mins, single decker)

11: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of 77, every 30 mins, single decker)

Used to be every 30 mins, and I think with minor changes it could handle it again.

12: Southmead Hospital - Severn Beach (route of 625, every 60 mins, single decker)

Possible slight route change in Little Stoke/Patchway to make journey times better.

13: Southmead Hospital - Wotton-under-Edge (route of 77 to Thornbury then Falfield and Charfield, every 60 mins, single decker)

Basically the northern part of the 77 but serving Charfield, So the 79 (Old 87) can be rerouted and then Wotton-under-Edge still maintains a link to Southmead Hospital.

14: Southmead Hospital - Chipping Sodbury (route of 82 but avoiding Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, single decker)

A much more simple/direct route, as there would be no need to serve Cribbs or Wotton-under-Edge.

15: Southmead Hospital - Keynsham (route of 17A, every 30 mins, single decker)

16: Southmead Hospital - Brislington Park & Ride (route of 506 to Barton Hill, then as 513/514 to Brislington then to the Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

17: Southmead Hospital - Long Ashton Park & Ride (route of 505, every 30 mins, single decker)

18: Southmead Hospital - Lyde Green Park & Ride (route of 18, every 30 mins, single decker)

19: Southmead Hospital - Portway Park & Ride (To Shirehampton Green as 18/501/502 then via Shirehampton Dursley Road to Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

20-29
20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As W1, every 30 mins, single decker)

X20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As X1, every 30 mins, double decker)

21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X9, every 30 mins, single decker)

X21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X8, every 30 mins, double decker)

22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (Via Nailsea, as the old X8 and 355, Sunday evenings only, single decker)

X22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (As X6, every 30 mins, double decker)

23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Serving Pill, Sheepway, Portishead Docks, every 30 mins, single decker)

X23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Express to Portishead, every 30 mins, double decker)

24: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 506, calling at Create, every 30 mins, single decker)

25: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 11, via Southville, every 30 mins, single decker)

26: Broadmead - Ashton Vale (As service 24, every 15 mins, single decker)

29: Bristol Airport - Cribbs Causeway (As service A2 and X5, every 60 mins, single decker)

30-39
31: Broadmead - Keynsham (Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - St Annes - Broomhill - then onto Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Eastern part of service 1, providing St Annes with a more direct service than the 36 to the centre, also providing an onward link to Keynsham. Improving links to Temple Meads (With the new arena and other development)

32: Broadmead - Keynsham (As service 57 to Stockwood, then as 636 to Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Maintaining a link to the centre from Brislington (Callington Road) and make up for reduced capacity on the 52 (old 2) to Stockwood.

33: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 39, but running via Wellsway and the 178 loop, every 30 mins, single decker)

34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 38, every 30 mins, single decker)

X34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service X39, every 20 mins, double decker)

Making the service limited stop, to try and compete further with the train for end to end traffic.

36: Bristol Bus Station - Radstock (As 178 but avoiding Timsbury, every 120 mins, single decker)

37: Bristol Bus Station - Midsomer Norton (As 668, every 120 mins, single decker)

39: Bristol Airport - Bath (As A4, every 60 mins, single decker)

40-49
40: Broad Quay - Staple Hill (As 7, every 20 mins, double decker)

41: Broad Quay - Kingswood (As 6, every 20 mins, double decker)

42: Bristol Bus Station - Tormarton (As 35 to Kingswood then as 634, every 180 mins, single decker)

43: Bristol Bus Station - Marshfield (As 35, every 180 mins, single decker)

44: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

45: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

46: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 45, every 20 mins, double decker)

47: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 44, every 20 mins, double decker)

48: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

49: Cribbs Causeway - Bath (As service 319 but calling Via Charlton Hayes and from Kingswood serving Hanham and Longwell Green as 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

50-59
50: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 50, every 20 mins, double decker)

51: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 51, every 20 mins, double decker)

52: Broadmead - Stockwood (As service 2, every 20 mins, single decker)

53: Broadmead - Stockwood (As old service 55 direct up Wells Road, every 20 mins, single decker)

54: Bristol Bus Station - Wells (Via Chew Magna, every 120 mins, single decker)

55: Bristol Bus Station - Wells (As service 376, every 30 mins, single decker)

X55: Bristol Bus Station - Street (As service 376, every 120 mins, single decker)

56: Bristol Bus Station - Wells (Via Midsomer Norton, as service 379 and 376, every 60 mins, single decker)

59: Keynsham - Hengrove (As service 637 and then 515, every 60 mins, single decker)

60-69
60: Broad Quay - U.W.E (As service 13 and 48A, every 12 mins, double decker)

61: Broad Quay - Bromley Heath (As service 24 to Eastville then service 5, every 30 mins, single decker)

62: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 626, but continuing direct to Dursley, 2 trips a day, single decker)

63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service 46 to Winterbourne then as X46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 30 mins, single decker)

X63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service X46 to Winterbourne then as 46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 60 min, double decker)

To provide the main population centres of Chipping Sodbury, Yate, Coalpit Heath, Frampton Cotterell and Winterbourne with a regular express service.

64: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service 47, every 30 mins, single decker)

65: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 48, every 15 mins, double decker)

66: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 49, every 15 mins, double decker)

67: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service X49, every 60 mins, single decker)

70-79
70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 12,71, every 12 mins, double decker)

X70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As X14, X74, every 12 mins, double decker)

71: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70, every 12 mins, double decker)

72: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70 to The Arches then Redland and Henleaze, every 12 mins, double decker)

To maintain a Redland to U.W.E link and maintain a frequent service to Henleaze. As well as new Redland - Henleaze link

73: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 but avoiding Southmead, every 15 mins, double decker)

Basically the old 77 to provide a quicker service to/from Henbury.

74: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 to Southmead then via Charlton Road, Filton Airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve new development as per service 2.

75: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 75, every 15 mins, double decker)

Patchway will have more buses as the 76 will additional serve that area.

76: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 73 then calling at Aztec West using bus link to Patchway and onto Cribbs, every 15 mins, double decker)

To create a regular link to Aztec West and without increasing the route length.

77: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78 to Horfield, then Bristol Parkway, Bradley Stoke and onwards to Thornbury, every 60 mins, single decker)

78: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78, every 60 mins, single decker)

X78: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 79 to Thornbury then as 88 to Dursley, every 120 mins, single decker)

79: Cribbs Causeway - Dursley (As service 87, every 120 mins, single decker)

80-89
80: Yate - Keynsham (As service 86 to Kingswood then onward to Keynsham, every 120 mins, single decker)

81: Yate - Bath (As 620, every 120 mins, single decker)

82: Yate - Malmesbury (As 41, every 120 mins, single decker)

83: Yate - Tetbury (As 27/622, every 120 mins, single decker)

84: Yate - Dursley (As 86, every 120 mins, single decker)

85: Yate - Wotton-under-Edge (As 82, 84, every 60 mins, single decker)

86: Yate - Sharpness (As 88/201, 2 trips daily, single decker)

87: Yate - Thornbury (As 622, every 120 mins, single decker)

88: Yate - Cribbs Causeway (As 82, every 60 mins, single decker)

To maintain Yate - Cribbs link and allow faster links to Southmead Hospital

90-99
90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As 21/22 to Highridge, then Dundry, Winford, Felton and on to Bristol Airport, every 120 mins, single decker)

X90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As A1, every 10 mins, single decker)

91: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 52, every 30 mins, single decker)

92: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 75, every 12 mins, double decker)

93: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 76, every 12 mins, double decker)

94: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90 and 36, every 12 mins, single decker)

To make up for losing the 36 and to possibly remove the need for the 511 and 512.

95: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90, every 12 mins, single decker)

99: Hengrove - Bower Ashton (Via Hengrove Park, Bedminster Down and Ashton Gate, every 60 mins, single decker)

100+
125: Weston-super-Mare - Wells (As service 26/126, but serving Wookey Hole, every 60 mins, single decker)

126: Weston-super-Mare - West Harptree (As 135/A2, every 120 mins, single decker)

127: Weston-super-Mare - Bristol Airport (As A2, every 120 mins, single decker)

128: Weston-super-Mare - Nailsea (As 850, every 60 mins, single decker)

129: Weston-super-Mare - Cribbs Causeway (As X5, every 120 mins, single decker)

130: Bath - Wells (As service 173, every 60 mins, single decker)

131: Bath - Wells (As service 174, every 60 mins, single decker)

132: Bath - Radstock (As service 179, avoiding Writhlington, every 60 mins, single decker)

133: Bath - Midsomer Norton (As service 178, but serving Writhlington, every 60 mins, single decker)

138: Bath - East Harptree (Via Corston and Stanton Wick, every 120 mins, single decker)

139: Bath - Bristol Airport (Via Corston and Chew Magna, every 120 mins, single decker)

Still more to follow when I have gone through the remaining services!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
hopefully resolves some issues TGW had
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A few more bits.

Depot wise. I have come up with the following ...

Avonmouth (Current Wessex depot)
Bath (Current First depot)
Hengrove (Current First depot)
Lawrence Hill (Current First depot)
Westerleigh (South of Yate, new depot)
Weston-super-Mare (Current First depot)

I don't really see the need for Firsts' Wells depot or Wessexs' Keynsham depot.
Muller Road would be closed fully also.
 
Last edited:

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I think the biggest task would be bus stop improvements / minor relocations to make the most of the services I proposed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Updated again!

1-9
1: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduced frequency made up for by new service 2. Eastern part of route taken over by service 31.

X1: Bristol Bus Station - Chepstow (Basically reverting to the old X14, serving Clifton, Westbury and Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, double decker)

2: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 1 as far as Westbury Village, then route of service 508 to Airbus, Charlton Road, then across proposed new housing on the former Filton airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve the proposed housing on the western part of the former Filton airfield, it would also provide a faster trip from Clifton and Westbury to Cribbs, as well as additional capacity. I only have it serving Henbury Road and Northover road so that area maintains a regular service and allows for the 508 to not be replaced. Also there is quite a lot of housing currently off of Charlton Road which I think is under served by the 508 so can see this service being very welcomed.

3: Temple Meads - Severn Beach (Route of current service 624, 2 trips in each direction per day, single decker)

To ensure Hallen and Compton Greenfield maintains a service as well as Severn beach to the centre.

4: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 2, every 15 mins, double decker)

Reduction in frequency partly made up for by the new service 72. Southern part taken over by new service 52.

5: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 3, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

6: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (Route of current service 4, every 15 mins, double decker)

Service can get very busy at times and at peak there can be a large gap in the service.

7: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Temple Meads - Centre - Cotham - Redland - Downs - Clifton - then Jacobs Wells road, Anchor Road, Cannons Road and Explore Way then back to Temple Meads, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

8: Temple Meads - Temple Meads (Reverse of route 7, every 15 mins, single decker)

Serving Hotwells Road and @Bristol will help "Tourists" more and better serve the new offices/flats of Cannon Marsh.

9: Bristol Parkway - Avonmouth (U.W.E - Cheswick - Lockleaze - Horfield - Westbury - Coombe Dingle [route of 508] - Lawrence Weston - Shirehampton - Avonmouth [route of 501] every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

10-19
10: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of former 25, every 15 mins, single decker)

11: Southmead Hospital - Broad Quay (Route of 77, every 30 mins, single decker)

Used to be every 30 mins, and I think with minor changes it could handle it again.

12: Southmead Hospital - Severn Beach (route of 625, every 60 mins, single decker)

Possible slight route change in Little Stoke/Patchway to make journey times better.

13: Southmead Hospital - Wotton-under-Edge (route of 77 to Thornbury then Falfield and Charfield, every 60 mins, single decker)

Basically the northern part of the 77 but serving Charfield, So the 79 (Old 87) can be rerouted and then Wotton-under-Edge still maintains a link to Southmead Hospital.

14: Southmead Hospital - Chipping Sodbury (route of 82 but avoiding Cribbs Causeway, every 60 mins, single decker)

A much more simple/direct route, as there would be no need to serve Cribbs or Wotton-under-Edge.

15: Southmead Hospital - Keynsham (route of 17A, every 30 mins, single decker)

16: Southmead Hospital - Brislington Park & Ride (route of 506 to Barton Hill, then as 513/514 to Brislington then to the Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

17: Southmead Hospital - Long Ashton Park & Ride (route of 505, every 30 mins, single decker)

18: Southmead Hospital - Lyde Green Park & Ride (route of 18, every 30 mins, single decker)

19: Southmead Hospital - Portway Park & Ride (To Shirehampton Green as 18/501/502 then via Shirehampton Dursley Road to Park & Ride, every 30 mins, single decker)

Trying to simplify the 18/501/502/508 into two services 9 and 19 whilst still maintaining links (but reducing dualing of some routes)

20-29
20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As W1, every 30 mins, single decker)

X20: Bristol Bus Station - Weston super Mare (As X1, every 30 mins, double decker)

21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X9, every 30 mins, single decker)

X21: Bristol Bus Station - Nailsea (As X8, every 30 mins, double decker)

22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (Via Nailsea, as the old X8 and 355, Sunday evenings only, single decker)

X22: Bristol Bus Station - Clevedon (As X6, every 30 mins, double decker)

23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Serving Pill, Sheepway, Portishead Docks, every 30 mins, single decker)

X23: Bristol Bus Station - Portishead (Express to Portishead, every 30 mins, double decker)

24: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 506, calling at Create, every 30 mins, single decker)

25: Broadmead - Bower Ashton (As 11, via Southville, every 30 mins, single decker)

26: Broadmead - Ashton Vale (As service 24, every 15 mins, single decker)

29: Bristol Airport - Cribbs Causeway (As service A2 and X5, every 60 mins, single decker)

30-39
31: Broadmead - Keynsham (Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - St Annes - Broomhill - then onto Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Eastern part of service 1, providing St Annes with a more direct service than the 36 to the centre, also providing an onward link to Keynsham. Improving links to Temple Meads (With the new arena and other development)

32: Broadmead - Keynsham (As service 57 to Stockwood, then as 636 to Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)

Maintaining a link to the centre from Brislington (Callington Road) and make up for reduced capacity on the 52 (old 2) to Stockwood.

33: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 39, but running via Wellsway and the 178 loop, every 30 mins, single decker)

34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 38, every 30 mins, single decker)

X34: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service X39, every 20 mins, double decker)

Making the service limited stop, to try and compete further with the train for end to end traffic.

36: Bristol Bus Station - Radstock (As 178 but avoiding Timsbury, every 120 mins, single decker)

37: Bristol Bus Station - Midsomer Norton (As 668, every 120 mins, single decker)

39: Bristol Airport - Bath (As A4, every 60 mins, single decker)

40-49
40: Broad Quay - Staple Hill (As 7, every 20 mins, double decker)

41: Broad Quay - Kingswood (As 6, every 20 mins, double decker)

42: Bristol Bus Station - Tormarton (As 35 to Kingswood then as 634, every 180 mins, single decker)

43: Bristol Bus Station - Marshfield (As 35, every 180 mins, single decker)

44: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

45: Broad Quay - Bitton (As service 43, every 20 mins, double decker)

46: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 45, every 20 mins, double decker)

47: Broad Quay - Cadbury Heath (As service 44, every 20 mins, double decker)

48: Bristol Bus Station - Bath (As service 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

49: Cribbs Causeway - Bath (As service 319 but calling Via Charlton Hayes and from Kingswood serving Hanham and Longwell Green as 37, every 30 mins, single decker)

50-59
50: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 50, every 20 mins, double decker)

51: Broadmead - Hengrove (As service 51, every 20 mins, double decker)

52: Broadmead - Stockwood (As service 2, every 20 mins, single decker)

53: Broadmead - Stockwood (As old service 55 direct up Wells Road, every 20 mins, single decker)

54: Bristol Bus Station - Wells (Via Chew Magna, every 120 mins, single decker)

55: Bristol Bus Station - Wells (As service 376, every 30 mins, single decker)

X55: Bristol Bus Station - Street (As service 376, every 120 mins, single decker)

56: Bristol Bus Station - Wells (Via Midsomer Norton, as service 379 and 376, every 60 mins, single decker)

59: Keynsham - Hengrove (As service 637 and then 515, every 60 mins, single decker)

60-69
60: Broad Quay - U.W.E (As service 13 and 48A, every 12 mins, double decker)

61: Broad Quay - Bromley Heath (As service 24 to Eastville then service 5, every 30 mins, single decker)

62: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 626, but continuing direct to Dursley, 2 trips a day, single decker)

63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service 46 to Winterbourne then as X46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 30 mins, single decker)

X63: Bristol Bus Station - Chipping Sodbury (As service X46 to Winterbourne then as 46 to Chipping Sodbury, every 60 min, double decker)

To provide the main population centres of Chipping Sodbury, Yate, Coalpit Heath, Frampton Cotterell and Winterbourne with a regular express service.

64: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service 47, every 30 mins, single decker)

65: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 48, every 15 mins, double decker)

66: Broad Quay - Emersons Green (As service 49, every 15 mins, double decker)

67: Bristol Bus Station - Yate (As service X49, every 60 mins, single decker)

70-79
70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 12,71, every 12 mins, double decker)

X70: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As X14, X74, every 12 mins, double decker)

71: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70, every 12 mins, double decker)

72: Temple Meads - U.W.E (As 70 to The Arches then Redland and Henleaze, every 12 mins, double decker)

To maintain a Redland to U.W.E link and maintain a frequent service to Henleaze. As well as new Redland - Henleaze link

73: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 but avoiding Southmead, every 15 mins, double decker)

Basically the old 77 to provide a quicker service to/from Henbury.

74: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 76 to Southmead then via Charlton Road, Filton Airfield to Cribbs Causeway, every 15 mins, double decker)

To serve new development as per service 2.

75: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 75, every 15 mins, double decker)

Patchway will have more buses as the 76 will additional serve that area.

76: Temple Meads - Cribbs Causeway (As 73 then calling at Aztec West using bus link to Patchway and onto Cribbs, every 15 mins, double decker)

To create a regular link to Aztec West and without increasing the route length.

77: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78 to Horfield, then Bristol Parkway, Bradley Stoke and onwards to Thornbury, every 60 mins, single decker)

78: Bristol Bus Station - Thornbury (As service 78, every 60 mins, single decker)

X78: Bristol Bus Station - Dursley (As service 79 to Thornbury then as 88 to Dursley, every 120 mins, single decker)

79: Cribbs Causeway - Dursley (As service 87, every 120 mins, single decker)

80-89
80: Yate - Keynsham (As service 86 to Kingswood then onward to Keynsham, every 120 mins, single decker)

81: Yate - Bath (As 620, every 120 mins, single decker)

82: Yate - Malmesbury (As 41, every 120 mins, single decker)

83: Yate - Tetbury (As 27/622, every 120 mins, single decker)

84: Yate - Dursley (As 86, every 120 mins, single decker)

85: Yate - Wotton-under-Edge (As 82, 84, every 60 mins, single decker)

86: Yate - Sharpness (As 88/201, 2 trips daily, single decker)

87: Yate - Thornbury (As 622, every 120 mins, single decker)

88: Yate - Cribbs Causeway (As 82, every 60 mins, single decker)

To maintain Yate - Cribbs link and allow faster links to Southmead Hospital

90-99
90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As 21/22 to Highridge, then Dundry, Winford, Felton and on to Bristol Airport, every 120 mins, single decker)

X90: Bristol Bus Station - Bristol Airport (As A1, every 10 mins, single decker)

91: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 52, every 30 mins, single decker)

92: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 75, every 12 mins, double decker)

93: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 76, every 12 mins, double decker)

94: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90 and 36, every 12 mins, single decker)

To make up for losing the 36 and to possibly remove the need for the 511 and 512.

95: Broadmead - Hengrove (As 90, every 12 mins, single decker)

99: Hengrove - Bower Ashton (Via Hengrove Park, Bedminster Down and Ashton Gate, every 60 mins, single decker)

100+
125: Weston-super-Mare - Wells (As service 26/126, but serving Wookey Hole, every 60 mins, single decker)

126: Weston-super-Mare - West Harptree (As 135/A2, every 120 mins, single decker)

127: Weston-super-Mare - Bristol Airport (As A2, every 120 mins, single decker)

128: Weston-super-Mare - Nailsea (As 850, every 60 mins, single decker)

129: Weston-super-Mare - Cribbs Causeway (As X5, every 120 mins, single decker)

130: Bath - Wells (As service 173, every 60 mins, single decker)

131: Bath - Wells (As service 174, every 60 mins, single decker)

132: Bath - Radstock (As service 179, avoiding Writhlington, every 60 mins, single decker)

133: Bath - Midsomer Norton (As service 178, but serving Writhlington, every 60 mins, single decker)

138: Bath - East Harptree (Via Corston and Stanton Wick, every 120 mins, single decker)

139: Bath - Bristol Airport (Via Corston and Chew Magna, every 120 mins, single decker)

Still more to follow when I have gone through the remaining services!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
hopefully resolves some issues TGW had
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A few more bits.

Depot wise. I have come up with the following ...

Avonmouth (Current Wessex depot)
Bath (Current First depot)
Hengrove (Current First depot)
Lawrence Hill (Current First depot)
Westerleigh (South of Yate, new depot)
Weston-super-Mare (Current First depot)

I don't really see the need for Firsts' Wells depot or Wessexs' Keynsham depot.
Muller Road would be closed fully also.
FTV33 - you say you know what passengers want and have stepped back from your more outlandish notions.....and then come out with stuff that I can't comprehend.

Why do you think there some great untapped demand from the Chew Valley? An area that can't even support a decent service to Bristol yet now can have buses to Weston and Bath every hour or two? Why?

The 850 goes from once a week to 6 days every hour!! Why?

Why cut the X5 to every two hours?

Why remove every other A2 from the Airport and send to Blagdon?

As for closing Wells depot, that just doesn't make financial sense or operational sense for that matter. Also, if you have a depot at Lyde Green or somewhere, I doubt you'll need one at Avonmouth
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
FTV33 - you say you know what passengers want and have stepped back from your more outlandish notions.....and then come out with stuff that I can't comprehend.

Why do you think there some great untapped demand from the Chew Valley? An area that can't even support a decent service to Bristol yet now can have buses to Weston and Bath every hour or two? Why?

The 850 goes from once a week to 6 days every hour!! Why?

Why cut the X5 to every two hours?

Why remove every other A2 from the Airport and send to Blagdon?

As for closing Wells depot, that just doesn't make financial sense or operational sense for that matter. Also, if you have a depot at Lyde Green or somewhere, I doubt you'll need one at Avonmouth
The 128 is to maintain Weston - Clevedon - Nailsea capacity (With the X5 reduced and A2 gone)

There are also new links from Cribbs Causeway - Nailsea and Bristol Airport which I think would be welcomed!

With the 672 gone, this maintains links to Bristol - Chew Valley and allows onward links to Blagdon/Weston/Bath (Without having multiple services running through these locations)

Chew Magna to Bristol is currently 4 buses per day (3 on the 672 and 1 on the 67) I would increase it to 6. I think it is perfectly workable!

Depot wise this is how I see it. (501-506 being P&R)

Avonmouth: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 12, 19, 23, X23, 29, 73, 74, 75, 76, 79, 501, 502

Bath: 33, 34, X34, 39, 48, 49 (Maybe Avonmouth instead), 130, 131, 132, 133, 138, 139

Hengrove: 15, 16, 31, 32, 50, 51, 52, 53, 59, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 99, 504, 505, 506

Lawrence Hill: X1, 7, 8, 10, 11, 17, 21, X21, 22, X22, 25, 25, 26, 36, 37, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 54, 55, X55, 56, 60, 61, 62, 70, X70, 71, 72, 78, 78, X78, 90, X90 (U.W.E services might be able to go to Westerleigh if need be)

Westerleigh: 13, 14, 18, 63, X63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 503

Weston: 20, X20, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129

To me that seems logical!
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
13,927
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
The 128 is to maintain Weston - Clevedon - Nailsea capacity (With the X5 reduced and A2 gone)

There are also new links from Cribbs Causeway - Nailsea and Bristol Airport which I think would be welcomed!

With the 672 gone, this maintains links to Bristol - Chew Valley and allows onward links to Blagdon/Weston/Bath (Without having multiple services running through these locations)

Chew Magna to Bristol is currently 4 buses per day (3 on the 672 and 1 on the 67) I would increase it to 6. I think it is perfectly workable!
No, you miss the point.

If the 672/67 can't justify anything more than a bus every two hours, what makes you think that there is some untapped market for buses running to Weston and Bath? There isn't or I'm sure Citistar, Abus or someone would've spotted that

Once again, you've done some sort of "cut and shut" on the X5, trying to prop up some dead duck (the 850 now 128) and thereby knackering the X5. Every two hours from Weston and Clevedon to Cribbs is a bad idea.

Of your latest plans, the one that makes some sense is to increase the 179 to hourly (which is something I've suggested before) because of the growth of Paulton. Perhaps...

  • 179 as current
  • 180 (as per 179 but omitting Farmborough but running as per 82 through MSN and Norton Hill to mop up Westfield etc)

As for the depots, you don't need to have three depots for north Bristol.

To close Wells depot and run from the Bristol end - does not make sense. The travel patterns point to a Wells depot NOT Bristol. Surely you must recognise that?
 

freetoview33

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
3,266
Location
Henbury, Bristol
No, you miss the point.

If the 672/67 can't justify anything more than a bus every two hours, what makes you think that there is some untapped market for buses running to Weston and Bath? There isn't or I'm sure Citistar, Abus or someone would've spotted that

Once again, you've done some sort of "cut and shut" on the X5, trying to prop up some dead duck (the 850 now 128) and thereby knackering the X5. Every two hours from Weston and Clevedon to Cribbs is a bad idea.

Of your latest plans, the one that makes some sense is to increase the 179 to hourly (which is something I've suggested before) because of the growth of Paulton. Perhaps...

  • 179 as current
  • 180 (as per 179 but omitting Farmborough but running as per 82 through MSN and Norton Hill to mop up Westfield etc)

As for the depots, you don't need to have three depots for north Bristol.

To close Wells depot and run from the Bristol end - does not make sense. The travel patterns point to a Wells depot NOT Bristol. Surely you must recognise that?
Weston - Cribbs is still hourly just single decker. Portishead - Cribbs is half hourly. Weston to Clevedon is half Hourly. But is it worth having a depot mainly for just those routes?

There is also the hourly Weston - Nailsea (A2) service so it is just maintaining those links. And to reintroduce trips lost when the X4 went!

Also the 139, would help to give Bath and Chew Magna a regular link plus it would be just as quick if not a quicker link to Bristol Airport (From Bath)

The 138 is to make sure Stanton Wick and Bishop Sutton maintain some form of service.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top