*UPDATED* Idea Greater Bristol area redraw

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by freetoview33, 21 Aug 2015.

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  1. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    And cutting Bath - Bristol Airport capacity by 25% isn't a bad thing as it isn't like it's heaving at the moment. But Chew Valley could do with a more regular service and it might take a few airport passengers too! I don't see it being a bad thing!
     
  2. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Seemingly, they must have got it right or they wouldn't have doubled it. And sufficient numbers to be operated commercially. Ask yourself...

    Why when they introduced the A4 did they send it via Keynsham and South Bristol?
    Why when they doubled it, did they still send it that route?
    Why they didn't send it as you suggest?
    Why hasn't such a service been introduced by anyone else? Or by BaNES when RBC money was available 15 years ago?

    Perhaps it's because it's a very affluent area with few residents and very high levels of car ownership.
     
  3. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    Unfortunately this is exactly the kind of justification that is used by councils/PTEs-PTAs to justify having control of the transport network and being able to tinker with things.
    On paper the choice appears easy. Instead of two buses an hour on one route send one an hour on a different route (that isn’t covered at present) and everybody wins, in theory. In practice the different route can’t justify the service and it eventually has to be dropped (witness the major improvement and then slow decline of the Chew Valley to Bristol services over the last 10 years) whereas the two buses an hour on the original route would have had a very good chance of attracting new custom.
    If the custom is there then making the service more attractive and reliable will bring more of it (and people quite like buses that aren’t heaving), if it isn’t there then forcing services off of more profitable areas isn’t going to bring it in.
     
  4. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    Buses run by a publicly owned company would be a good idea, so places like Chew Valley get an okay service
     
  5. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    What makes you think that Chew doesn't get an ok service? Or that it needs a bus every hour to Bath?

    Carl is correct in saying "If the custom is there then making the service more attractive and reliable will bring more of it (and people quite like buses that aren’t heaving), if it isn’t there then forcing services off of more profitable areas isn’t going to bring it in."

    That's the fundamental flaw. You don't get transference nor does propping up one dud by removing resources from a good service work either, as has been proved on numerous occasions
     
  6. vicbury

    vicbury Member

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    There is a school of thought that any route needs to be a minimum of two buses per hour, seven days a week to attract, indeed maintain, patronage.

    Whilst it would be nice to penetrate buses everywhere that simply is not feasible without permanent subsidies for a lot of routes.
     
  7. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    I agree! A 30 min service on all routes is never going to happen!
     
  8. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Right ok here's a bit of my plan:-
    375 - Bristol - Wells - Street - Bridgwater (every hour)

    Incorporates current 375 and one of the 376's. Single deck operation, serving Bridgwater college at peak. Run from Wells First depot.

    376 - Bristol - Wells - Street (only peak) - just one extra vehicle to cope with extra demand at peak

    Just a few 376 journeys left to fill in at peak. Wouldn't necessarily be a 15 minute service coming out of Bristol, but just a couple of extra journeys. Single deck operation. Service will also run first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening - buses will run later into evening, not quite a 24 hour service, but 1 extra bus leaving Bristol Sunday-Thursday and then Friday and Saturday evening to 2am.

    377 - Bristol - Wells - Street - Yeovil (every hour)

    Incorporates 1 376 per hour and the 377. Single deck operation.

    378 - Bristol - Wells - Street - Taunton (every hour)

    Incorporates another 376 per hour, to make the Bristol - Wells - Street corridor every 20 mins off peak, and a similar service to 29 - missing out Ashcott to make a more of an express version to Taunton. Wouldn't be a particularly busy service, granted, so maybe smaller buses could be used?

    Justification to all the above:- makes it easier for people to go from the small villages along 376 routes to Yeovil/Bridgwater/Taunton areas and vice versa, with the villages along the 375/377/29 routes being able to get into Bristol more easily. Improves the reliability, punctuality and capacity on 376 route, whilst making these routes more attractive to commuters, tourists and visitors to Glastonbury (i.e. all of the terminus points have railway stations, good infrastructure and businesses and links to other destinations).

    372 - Bristol - Chew Valley - Wells (every 2 - 3 hours)

    Service operates 672 route to Blagdon, then 683 route to Wells.

    371 - Bath - Chew Valley - Weston Super Mare (long version - serving all the villages - every 2 - 3 hours)

    Service operates through all the small lanes and small villages, etc. Also serves Bristol Airport.

    171 - Bath - Chew Valley - Weston Super Mare (mostly following main road - every two hours)

    Service operates along Lower Bristol Road, Corston, Marksbury, High Littleton, Temple Cloud, Clutton, Chelwood Roundabout, Bishop Sutton, West Harptree, Blagdon, then follows old 121 route to Weston.

    These all provide services through the Chew Valley area, mostly on a two hourly basis - at peak 171 and 372 will serve Chew Valley School, saving in school contract fees. These also pick up some of the demand on the A2 route, Lower Bristol Road to Bath, Corston to Bath and a few other bits. 172 may be operated by double decker once or twice a day in summer periods, as old dears flock to Weston. These routes also help tourists, as well as commuters and general people looking to go on a day out.

    126 - Wells - Cheddar - Weston Super Mare (hourly)

    As current 126, but with a few extra evening journeys.

    125 - Wells - Wookey Hole - Cheddar (hourly)

    Follows the same route as 67, then takes to the main road up to Cheddar.


    Then:-
    172 - Wells - Shepton
    As current 161 to tie in with numbers.
    173 - Wells - Bath
    As current 173
    174 - Wells - Bath
    As current 174
    175 - Bath - Peasedown
    As current 175, but every 30 mins and more consistent
    176 - Bath - Bristol
    As current 379, but with earlier journey from Bristol and couple of later journeys from Bath
    177 - Radstock - Keynsham - Whitchurch - Bristol
    As current 668 and 636, but serving areas of Keynsham where 178 goes through. Only three times a day - one at peak in each direction in both morning and evening and one during the day.
    178 - Bath - Bristol
    As current 178
    179 - Bath - Frome
    As current 179, then serves Writhlington and then serves a few villages on the way to Frome on every other journey.
    180 - Frome - Shepton Mallet - Midsomer Norton - Frome circular service
    Combines 776, 184 and 162 routes. Every 2 hours - one bus every 2 hours in each direction.
    181 - Bath - Midsomer Norton - Bath
    Combines 757, 768 and 82/82A services. Circular service going every 2.5 hours in each direction. Also serves Paulton and Farrington Gurney (i.e. goes Bath - Farrington Gurney as 768 route, serving Paulton as 82 route, then Farrington to Midsomer Norton including 82 route, then as 757 to Bath and vice versa). Only every other journey will be a circular trip - i.e. some will only go Bath - Midsomer Norton as 768 and 82 and not do 757 back to Bath, due to fairly poor amount of demand.
    182 - Keynsham - Clutton - Paulton - Trowbridge
    Combines 185 and 640/683 to Keynsham. Three trips in each direction each day - morning peak, midday and afternoon peak.

    I know you lot will rip this to shreds, but it's my idea, some of which have been influenced by freetoview33 and others which I've been thinking about for a while.

    Before anyone starts, all of this would receive enough demand to do these routes & services.

    Think that mostly sorts out Wells services
     
    Last edited: 20 Sep 2015
  9. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    Another one of mine!

    69: Cribbs Causeway - Patchway - Aztec West - Bradley Stoke - Bristol Parkway - U.W.E - Lyde Green - Emersons Green - Kingswood. (To make up for the X5/X18) every 60 mins, single decker.
     
    Last edited: 21 Sep 2015
  10. ValleyLines142

    ValleyLines142 Established Member

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    The X5/X18 doesn't serve Bradley Stoke anyway. Why divert it along the 73 route and not via Little Stoke, which is considerably quicker?
     
  11. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    To take advantage of the metro bus route through there!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    And I wouldn't divert it the whole 73 route just direct through Bradley Stoke
     
  12. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Apologies for the delay in replying. A combination of a lot of work stuff (customer meetings, project meetings etc) combined with my domestic duties!!

    Firstly, it isn’t a case of rubbishing anything. With FTV’s proposals, I have really tried to be balanced in my approach. Throughout this thread, it’s been recognised that there’s a lot of thought gone into FTV’s plans (from a number of people). For my part, I’ve continued to stress that and to highlight those areas that I think it’s more right than otherwise. However, FTV has put his thoughts “out there” and asked for people’s views and that invites criticism, both positive and negative and I hope that I’ve been balanced and reasoned in my responses.

    There’s one main area where I think some of the ideas fall down and this is what Carl was getting at (I think). The theory is that you can take an existing service that requires a set amount of resource. You can either redeploy resource through dropping the frequency or perhaps a reroute, and therefore that can be used to provide some new service or to “shore up” or enhance an existing service. That seems quite logical and persuasive in a theoretical sense – e.g. dropping the A4 from 2 to 1 bus per hour allows new services to the Airport and to Blagdon via Chew Valley; the theory is used (as Carl says) by various PTEs etc and it all seems very laudable.

    The reality is actually quite different and I’ll use an analogy. You have two seabirds. One’s really good at flying, the other one isn’t. So, with the miracle of microsurgery, you can do a wing transplant. You can take a wing from the good flyer, and graft it onto the other and vice versa. We are resource neutral (both have two wings) and so both birds should be able to fly ok. However, one bird is an albatross and the other is a penguin. Now you have two birds that don’t fly! By doing that, you’ve tried to make a bird fly that could never do so, whilst at the same time, knackering the one that could.

    To go back to the Chew Valley services, I checked my old GBBTT. There WAS a 752 that ran three journeys per day from Blagdon and Chew to Bath about 15 years ago. The fact that it doesn’t run anymore on a daily basis probably indicates something?

    The view of “before anyone starts, there is demand”….. I can fully accept that there’s “demand” for services in the Chew Valley. However, how much demand? Experience (like the 752) has shown that it doesn’t justify daily services 6-12 times a day; instead, you’re likely merely to dilute whatever passenger volumes you do have. Remember, this is an area that is very affluent with very high levels of car ownership and, despite what has been said, the numbers of new houses in the area are minimal. In fact, BaNES are trying to protect the Chew Valley (and other nice villages) from developers by concentrating development in places like Paulton, MSN, Peasedown. What I could see is perhaps a two car working 672/3
    Now, to Mr Harris’s ideas and don’t worry, I won’t be rubbishing or shredding unduly but will provide what I hope are seen as balanced and reasonable views. I’ve said my piece on Chew so I’ll not go over that ground again but look at the other stuff.

    I agree that the 126 could do with bolstering but the real volume is the other end. Until First entered endless chopping mode with Moir, it was half hourly between Cheddar and Weston and that’s where the real passenger volume is.

    175 – not certain it requires a 30 min service but agree that the timetable could certainly be more clockface (albeit with an hour gap for the drivers’ break).

    161/184/776 – it was something that I mentioned on here about a while ago. Not as a circular service but more a way of interworking by cutting the old 184 and 161 and using Solos rather than Darts

    185 to Trowbridge – it may carry a few twirlies to Trowbridge but will they travel every day? I think it will just dilute that ridership. The 185 costs £3k a year in subsidy which tells its own story

    Your 181 – to be honest, I’m sort of struggling to picture it and that’s more me than you. My thought was to increase the 179 to include the 82 on an hourly basis. You mention the 179 running to Frome (again something I’d floated before via the 184) but via the 414? Fair enough but have you missed out Kilmersdon and Haydon

    The Bristol to Street corridor – I’d leave as it is. Before it became clear that WS depot could be modified to take deckers, I’d have gone with a 20 min frequency (and that clearly looked to be the plan). Now, I’d go with JF’s plan.

    The Wells to Taunton chestnut has come up again and it’s something we’ve seen before. To give some history, it’s gone from about 5 journeys a day (Glastonbury to Taunton) in the early 90s before extension to Wells in c.1994, pushed to hourly about 2000 (RBC funding) then down to 90 min frequency and back to hourly for 6 months and now back to almost where we were 20+ years ago. Fact is….it doesn’t go through very populated territory once past Ashcott. I think another try at an hourly frequency will merely prove Einstein to be right about the definition of lunacy. Also, smaller buses – fraught with all sorts of trouble if you’re going to run e200s into Bristol. I’d also question how running buses on 40 mile long journeys will improve reliability – believe me, it doesn’t.

    As for later journeys on the 376, well I think it could happen (not 24/7) and as an aside, I’m still a little surprised the 39 hasn’t gone 24/7.

    If I were looking at the areas where real passenger growth could be effected, then I’d said that the 376 was one (and the deckers will drive that further) and, to be honest, the 173 was another that I pointed out before. The Swindon to Oxford service is a textbook example of how to grow a service. Another textbook example, but for the wrong reasons, is the 231. Abject complacency in the past means competition reigns, a lack of finance to improve things when in reality, that should be a corridor to rival the 173 in some respects.

    Best regards and peace and love abounding; told you, I’m a pacifist :D
     
  13. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    On my ideas I am glad of your's and other peoples feedback! Which has helped me change/modify my "ideas" to be much more realistic compared to where they once were!

    And I am still always looking at them and trying to evolve them into workable services.

    So keep the feedback coming everyone!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Although I must say one more thing! I live in Henbury and I am surprised by the amount of people who get on the 18 at that point to head to Emersons Green!

    Although in my ideas there wouldn't be that service anymore! As it much quicker to get a bus to Southmead Hospital and change there! Plus it does take traffic away from the 4 on the Henbury - Shire section of the route.

    I am also doubtful and haven't said about a replacement for the current 16! I think a slightly upgraded 3 could cope! They coped for many years without it, (yes more accommodation has been built at Stoke Bishop but still don't see the need) And I do know this first hand as when I was young I did used to live on the halls of residence there. (As my dad worked at the uni)
     
  14. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    No worries - I know I can be a bit crabby (hey, that's middle age for you!) but I do try to be constructive. Also, sometimes I'm a bit direct but that's just to cut through things a bit - it's not nasty or personal :)

    I do have my GBBTT to hand so, if I have time, I might share a few other little nuggets about how services looked around 15 years ago!
     
  15. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Have you taken some happy pills or something?

    I'll agree with most of the comments, but the 376/5/7 & 29 corridor are still a complete mess. The 376 is my local route (along with 379) and I can tell you that even with deckers on, it still will be a complete mess. I agree there wouldn't be much demand along the 29 route, but I think it should every 2 hours and run to Wells at least - think you're right on the hourly thing, but what I was trying to do is basically to extend the 376 onto destinations that are more commutable and places that people are more likely to have heard of, rather than Street. I stand by that idea (although I will change the Bristol - Wells - Street - Taunton to every two hours and then maybe have a service going Bristol - Wells - Street - Shepton or maybe Castle Cary every two hours?).

    The Norton things I was just throwing ideas around really. I think 185 could run 2 days a week though and could go from/to Keynsham instead of just Clutton.

    The 175 - it does need to be more consistent, but the issue is the number of buses - if it's going to be more consistent throughout the whole day, another bus will need to be used at peak. What will that bus do off peak? Other 175 journeys. Both buses would be solos, so basically you'll have enough room for enough passengers per hour. It lacks in consistency which is the main problem and making it every 30 mins will also make up for a 10 minute frequency from Peasedown to Bath.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Just had a thought - what about a Bristol - Chew - Cheddar service instead of Bristol - Chew Valley - Wells. Surely that would attract a bit more demand?
     
  16. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Nope, I'm a Prozac free zone. However, might be something to do with going on holiday soon!

    To be honest, the 376 going to deckers will certainly help the capacity AND the extra vehicle in the cycle is not before time. I know the 379 with the 376 makes the headway lop-sided but it's not an easy solve.

    The WB competition is the reason for the 15 min Wells to Street frequency and I know the 375/7 ran through to Bristol in the past. However, it's clear that the Street to Bristol bit did prop up the southern bits. So, and ignoring WB for a second, the 376 as is dovetailing with the 375/7 allowing some older fleet on those routes makes sense.

    As for the 29, it's not a strong route and given that BoS cut it back to Glastonbury (save peaks) suggests that it may have been cannibalising trade off the other routes between Wells and Street. However, with cut in March (with the 26) going from 4 buses to 1 (I wait to be corrected) was quite major. I accept the reasons why (council cuts etc) but still, shame SCC couldn't find the cash for a two car run (90 min service) from Glastonbury via Creech to Taunton.

    And maybe, there's the rub. I know Somerset CC do support bus services but the level of cuts (in comparison to neighbouring councils) have been fairly substantial. Marry that next to a less than innovative First Group of old, and you see why the RBC and Kickstart schemes were missed opportunities. Compare that with Wiltshire and it's like night and day.
     
  17. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    I was thinking. At least for the Park and Rides. Optare Metro city full electric buses! I think they would suit them quite well!
     
  18. ValleyLines142

    ValleyLines142 Established Member

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    Too small. Have you seen the 902-4 in the peaks?
     
  19. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    Long term would Bristol be suited to having any tram routes (even if it's just to replace the busiest bus routes?
     
  20. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    I have! But two points.

    1) I would increase the frequency. (902 worked well like that before)
    2) The 903 is being replaced by a Single decker every 20 min! (Under this Metro bus rubbish)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Maybe but currently the council are spending millions on a new bus route! Which most people thing is a total waste!

    Also thing is good places that could be served by trams Weston , yate and bath are all on the mainlines anyway! There is Bristol Airport, but it would cost a lot for little benefit as the Geography of the area would limit it!

    I did have one mad idea before! About building a road from the Clevedon junction on the M5 to Bristol Airport. With a new link and development around South Nailsea. Then a North Somerset Parkway railway station! Which would be very close to the Airport.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Still thinking of more ideas!
     
  21. TheWalrus

    TheWalrus Established Member

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    Bring Stagecoach to Bristol! :) that would improve things!

    I think there should be more destinations available by bus to/from Bristol, like Stroud, Gloucester (in place of Belles Express) and maybe even Cirencester and Swindon. Maybe even go to Taunton?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2015
  22. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    Why though you can get the train to most of those places directly!
     
  23. ValleyLines142

    ValleyLines142 Established Member

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    I imagine something to do with OAPs and free bus passes (a bit like the X7).
     
  24. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    Stagecoach are already in Bristol!

    All of those destinations have been available by bus in past years and all have been withdrawn because the costs and difficulties of operating long distance services (even before the recent rule requiring tachos on long services) outweigh the small number of people who actually travel through. Long bus services arnt attractive to most people and express services have difficulty getting enough people to justrify their existance.

    Stroud wouldnt be much quicker than the connecting services. Gloucester express is being tried again now. Cirencester didnt even make it to the end of the 1970s. Swindon wouldnt be much quicker than the connecting services (several express services have been tried but only offering Swindon-Bristol facilities and mostly only manage to work as shoppers excursions). Taunton express worked for many years but even that stopped more than 10 years ago, otherwise it's little quicker than the connecting services.
     
  25. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    No.

    I admit that this is partially down to it, but it's more about the price.

    For example going from Weston to Yeovil (21 and 54) the other week was £5 single, compared to a train where you would have to make more changes and it would cost considerably more. I've even done Wells to Axminster on £5.

    The best example is the X39. Why do so many commuters and passengers use it? Not because it's quicker than the train at all, but because it's cheaper, especially if you need to catch a service out of Bristol. Just remember that a single on the train at peak from Bristol to Bath is £7 (the last time i went on it) and a Bristol outer zone day is £6.50 which gets you to Bath and all around Bristol.

    231 is another example of that.

    First unfortunately adopt a different concept to Stagecoach which is basically meaning that their country services are rubbish. Stagecoach run country services between places that people have heard of (towns and cities), whereas First just run services locally or have them terminating at a depot in the middle of nowhere. Something like a Bristol to Taunton service would I believe be viable. I can't see that Swindon is of great benefit though, nor Cirencester. Certainly Gloucester is a good idea and maybe even a service Bristol to Cardiff.
     
  26. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    I'm not aware (locally) of First having depots in the middle of nowhere! First do have a different approach (mostly because of the Moir years) but the difference wouldn’t be enough to suddenly make services like Bristol-Taunton viable again (National Express already offer the direct journey and the 'local bus' versions both (Weston or Wells) have good connections for local travellers). Stagecoach pulled out of the Bristol-Newport service a few years ago (after some time running a Bristol-Cwmbran service for no better reason than that was where the crew relief had to happen!) and Bristol-Cardiff has been tried several times since the demise of Expresswest but never works because people appear to prefer the train. Bristol-Gloucester is at least being tried again but the marketing is heavily based on the commuter business with the rest of the service almost appearing as an afterthought.
    Stagecoach do appear more enthusiastic about keeping long distance services together, instead of breaking them down (Trowbridge-Swindon or Swindon-Cheltenham would be local examples). But this can only work if the different parts are all close to justifying the level of service for the whole and it's unlikely that the services actually attract many fare payers to travel through.
     
  27. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Carl will be able to confirm but IIRC, the reason why Stagecoach have long routes is that they took a legal view on services over 50km that meant they operated bus services in separate registrations but with one single service number running throughout whereas First and Arriva registered separate services.

    The time vs cost debate is not a precise science, I grant you. However, there is usually a tipping point where convenience beats cost (for the vast majority). In terms of the X39, the difference in time seems substantial but when you factor in the location of TM, then the centre to centre time is not that different and certainly you don't have to contend with walking into the city centre braving the elements etc. The X39 competes on that basis and frequency, not just cost.

    However, Bristol to Taunton is a different kettle of fish. The cost is £7.50 on the bus (First Day) whilst the single train fare is £10.30. The difference is less than £3.00. The journey time is 1hr by walk/train/walk vs. 2.5 hrs (at least) by bus.

    As a rough rule of thumb, have a shortish journey and a small time disadvantage (or even an advantage) and the cost benefit of the bus can work. However, the idea that most people would fancy spending twice as long on a bus to say a few quid just isn't borne out.

    As an example, my other half lived in Westbury for years and so do many of her friends/workmates. They NEVER get the 265 into Bath; the train is so much quicker, more comfortable and has a toilet. Yes, the bus is moderately cheaper but why spend over an hour doing that when the train takes 25 mins. Of course, her parents will get the bus because they've got a twirly pass. :D
     
  28. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    Well said!
     
  29. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    OK so maybe Bristol to Taunton isn't such a good idea. Not necessarily based on the demand or my previous reasoning, but more based on the fact that a person would have to get a £10 day ticket to get there from Bristol (First WoE day only gets to Street, Bridgwater or Yeovil).

    What about Bristol-Yeovil though? I believe that would save time compared to the journey by rail and cost.

    The whole argument that i'm trying to make here is not starting long distance services, but doing more changing and starting services to terminate/start at places that people have actually heard of. Of course in towns that argument is pointless, but on country routes it would make more sense to approach services like Stagecoach does (i.e. have them going to places that are well known). Take the 272 for example. Who's ever heard of Bowerhill? Why not have it extended to somewhere like Devizes because at least people have heard of that. I would mention the 376, but I know I'll get my head bitten off even more.

    I just think that First's approach to its country services is poor and they should be using the fact that their fares are cheaper than the train to benefit.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    How many people have ever heard of Hengrove outside of Bristol and the West of England exactly? I was alluding more to city services, which I didn't mean as there aren't any country services that First operate that terminate at Hengrove, just town services. Shouldn't have put down depot in my response, it should of been terminus point, unknown town or village or something similar.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    OK so some of these responses obviously aren't working and making much sense...

    What I mean to say is that First should have some express routes between well know destinations and then have more commuter services that stop at all the villages along the way. Any long country routes should be operating between well known destinations rather than places like Street and Bowerhill. It's much the same as the rail network, where you have Bristol - Taunton and then have Bristol - Bedminster - Parson Street - Yatton, etc - Weston - Bridgwater - Taunton.

    I want to see something similar in Bristol and WoE areas like First have in Edinburgh and Falkirk and the 38. That's a similar sort of thing that Stagecoach do.

    A good example of the above is X1 and W1. Why can't First do more of this exactly, but to more of an extend and slightly longer? Why not have an express service from say Bath to Westbury or Trowbridge to Westbury and then have 265 as well.
     
    Last edited: 12 Oct 2015
  30. carlberry

    carlberry Established Member

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    Hengrove is as well known as any other name in the area. Hartcliffe or Whitchurch wouldnt be any more well known outside of Bristol (and less accurate) and 'South Bristol' wouldnt actually help anybody.


    I not sure what’s wrong with 'Street' as a destination! Glastonbury might be slightly better known as a result of the Pilton pop festival, however Street is the obvious destination from the North. Taunton and Yeovil have been tried in the past but haven’t survived. Whilst Bristol to Yeovil might sound good and look good on a network map the benefits of a single, reliable service on the Bristol-Street section far out way the complications of sending every other bus, or every 3rd bus, to Yeovil and back.

    The Bowerhill services used to go to Devizes but don’t produce the traffic to justify the service. Melksham for Bowerhill might be a better destination but, again, Melksham isn’t well known outside of the area. TheGrandWazoo has outlined why Bath to Westbury is a none starter because of the train. Badgerline did try it's Swiftlink network and, historically, every major traffic flow from Bristol has had at least one express service introduced but subsequently withdrawn.
    Stagecoach do appear to try more things like this, and give them longer, however I doubt they'd actually have achieved anything substantially different with the area. Cheltenham and Gloucester for instance tried an express Cheltenham-Gloucester service that's been dropped and has Forest Green as a destination for several services that people outside the area might realise is a football club but won’t actually know where it is.
     
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