*UPDATED* Idea Greater Bristol area redraw

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TheGrandWazoo

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Regarding the 10 I'd be surprised if that couldn't be rolled into some of the U1 night journeys and made into something like the U10 run by Wessex or the older version of the route run by First, taking the normal route from the uni through town and then up Oldfield Park and Southdown then back again, running via Upper Oldfield Park. Considering First have decided there is demand to run the U1 24/7 this year and there must be some demand for later 10 services (due to the push of students further up Coronation Avenue towards Southdown).
That was my thought process.... The main student area has grown from Oldfield Park and gone further out towards Southdown so the market might be there. Might struggle with a full sized vehicle otherwise you would extend the U1.
 
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freetoview33

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I'm not quite sure what the relation with Whiteladies Road is? I'm merely referring to the fact that both the 15 and the 72 take (or have taken in the case of the 15) a long route from town to UWE.

You simply need a nightbus that goes straight up Gloucester Road and Filton Avenue. No detours, just one direct route (either via the current 70 or 71).
I don't see it would be overly longer! And Gloucester Road is served by other services! Surely it would be better running a slightly longer route that also served Henleaze and Redland, especially at that time!
 

ValleyLines142

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I don't see it would be overly longer! And Gloucester Road is served by other services! Surely it would be better running a slightly longer route that also served Henleaze and Redland, especially at that time!
Yes but not to UWE, which is the key target here. Furthermore, as I've said previously, you find that many students go out on Gloucester Road. So how would they get back to campus? Walk down to Zetland Road and get on the 72 that goes in a massive circle and then back along Filton Avenue which is almost where they are anyway? It's just not viable sorry. Henleaze and Redland can miss out.

If you feel that Redland deserves a 24 hour service then make the 8/9 a 24 hour service. That way you also have an extra bus to your fantasy Temple Meads! :lol:

Henleaze did used to be served by the 2, before it got cut to only run between Broadmead and Stockwood in the nights.
 

freetoview33

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Yes but not to UWE, which is the key target here. Furthermore, as I've said previously, you find that many students go out on Gloucester Road. So how would they get back to campus? Walk down to Zetland Road and get on the 72 that goes in a massive circle and then back along Filton Avenue which is almost where they are anyway? It's just not viable sorry. Henleaze and Redland can miss out.

If you feel that Redland deserves a 24 hour service then make the 8/9 a 24 hour service. That way you also have an extra bus to your fantasy Temple Meads! :lol:

Henleaze did used to be served by the 2, before it got cut to only run between Broadmead and Stockwood in the nights.
It only got cut because the 76 got extended. Although I think the 2 provided a better night service to North Bristol!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It only got cut because the 76 got extended. Although I think the 2 provided a better night service to North Bristol!
Have to say I tend to agree with Dan. I'm struggling to see how the 72 with a half hourly service during the day would need an hourly service through the night. He's absolutely right about the market. I can't see where the trade comes from for that route so instead it would just disadvantage UWE traffic and for what benefit?

I can see the logic in some other instances (e.g. run the Bristol to Bath service via Keynsham as it is a fairly major population centre) but really am struggling to see much of a market in Redland. Sorry
 

freetoview33

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Have to say I tend to agree with Dan. I'm struggling to see how the 72 with a half hourly service during the day would need an hourly service through the night. He's absolutely right about the market. I can't see where the trade comes from for that route so instead it would just disadvantage UWE traffic and for what benefit?

I can see the logic in some other instances (e.g. run the Bristol to Bath service via Keynsham as it is a fairly major population centre) but really am struggling to see much of a market in Redland. Sorry
But my 72 is different to the current 72 which is the service we are talking about.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
My version of the 72 is every 12 mins (19+72 at the moment is 5 per hour) so I don't see any difference!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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But my 72 is different to the current 72 which is the service we are talking about.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
My version of the 72 is every 12 mins (19+72 at the moment is 5 per hour) so I don't see any difference!
Ok, appreciate you're lumping in the 19 so the daytime service is higher. Fair enough. Now, let me get this right. Your thinking is....

  • This will be your main evening service from town to UWE
  • The longer journey time will not be a disincentive for any students to travel from Centre to UWE
  • The additional passengers that are gained from going via Redland and Cotham will outweigh any lost patronage

Think you may have a few challenges there
 
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freetoview33

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Ok, appreciate you're lumping in the 19 so the daytime service is higher. Fair enough. Now, let me get this right. Your thinking is....

  • This will be your main evening service from town to UWE
  • The longer journey time will not be a disincentive for any students to travel from Centre to UWE
  • The additional passengers that are gained from going via Redland and Cotham will outweigh any lost patronage

Think you may have a few challenges there
Not the main evening service but the main night service around 1am-5am.
 

freetoview33

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That's what I meant - the other questions are perhaps more pivotal?
If U.W.E students wanted to get back in the early hours they would have to have a longer trip or pay more for a taxi .... considering how long U.W.E had no night service I think they are lucky to have 1!

Gloucester Road has a night bus. Redland, Henleaze don't! Centre to U.W.E still has a link. People could always change buses at the top of muller road if they were that desperate! (If the timetables were there to allow a quick interchange! )
 

TheGrandWazoo

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If U.W.E students wanted to get back in the early hours they would have to have a longer trip or pay more for a taxi .... considering how long U.W.E had no night service I think they are lucky to have 1!

Gloucester Road has a night bus. Redland, Henleaze don't! Centre to U.W.E still has a link. People could always change buses at the top of muller road if they were that desperate! (If the timetables were there to allow a quick interchange! )
God forbid that we provide services where people want to go? Instead, you put the main UWE service round the houses and so disadvantage most of the passengers, make it less attract to most, and your response is tough - sit tight or get a taxi!! It's classic tail wagging dog territory

And who on earth will want to change buses at 3am????? Really??? :roll:
 

matt_splat

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with regards of night busses in bath i think you could create a small friday and saturday night network, the 39 should be 24/7.

i have been surprised how busy the last 178 from Midsomer Norton on a saturday can be recently since its extension to bath.

If you created a Bath night network i think the following would work.

5/10 merged together once the 10 gets to mount road you turn right then follow the 20 route to twerton parade, covers most of the 5 route then run direct to down.

14/178 i would run the evening bus to midsomer norton via bloomfield road and frome road then the bus on arrival in radstock would do a circle via westfield norton then straight back along the A362 into radstock before returning to Bath.

13 (Foxhill Side) bus runs out via wellsway into foxhill straight along North Road and then down prior park road into town.

13 (London Road) Via main road only service via London road Batheaston turning at the roundabout then back to town via the Bypass and London Road.

14 (Weston) Normal Route Bus Station to Weston

39 extra trips to make it 24/7

Frequency wise.

the joint 5/10 could run hourly plenty of time for the bus to complete the circuit

the Bath - Norton route i would move the 23:55 trip back to 00:00 and then run trips at 01:30 an 03:00

13 would be a one bus operation running from foxhill at 00:12 with trips from foxhill at 01:12 and 02:12.

finally the 14 would be one bus every hour leaving the bus station at 00:30 and 01:30, 02:30
 

TheGrandWazoo

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with regards of night busses in bath i think you could create a small friday and saturday night network, the 39 should be 24/7.

i have been surprised how busy the last 178 from Midsomer Norton on a saturday can be recently since its extension to bath.

If you created a Bath night network i think the following would work.

5/10 merged together once the 10 gets to mount road you turn right then follow the 20 route to twerton parade, covers most of the 5 route then run direct to down.

14/178 i would run the evening bus to midsomer norton via bloomfield road and frome road then the bus on arrival in radstock would do a circle via westfield norton then straight back along the A362 into radstock before returning to Bath.

13 (Foxhill Side) bus runs out via wellsway into foxhill straight along North Road and then down prior park road into town.

13 (London Road) Via main road only service via London road Batheaston turning at the roundabout then back to town via the Bypass and London Road.

14 (Weston) Normal Route Bus Station to Weston

39 extra trips to make it 24/7

Frequency wise.

the joint 5/10 could run hourly plenty of time for the bus to complete the circuit

the Bath - Norton route i would move the 23:55 trip back to 00:00 and then run trips at 01:30 an 03:00

13 would be a one bus operation running from foxhill at 00:12 with trips from foxhill at 01:12 and 02:12.

finally the 14 would be one bus every hour leaving the bus station at 00:30 and 01:30, 02:30
I think that's a lot more "doable" and makes sense though don't know about the 0300 to MSN? Certainly, the Fri/Sat last bus to MSN does carry a good few people (occasionally me) - not seen the last bus from there though ;)
 

matt_splat

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i have always wondered if a 01:30 from Bath would work maybe you could move it to 02:00 and then it could be a better suited time.

the last two times i used the last 178 from bristol on a saturday the bus was the normal 7 or 8 people gradually dropping off until norton when left with just 2 on then one evening it picked up 16 in Norton and carried them back to peasedown etc plus picking up others in radstock

the week later 10 in norton and 3 in radstock which to me is busier then some day time trips
 

THarris123

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with regards of night busses in bath i think you could create a small friday and saturday night network, the 39 should be 24/7.

i have been surprised how busy the last 178 from Midsomer Norton on a saturday can be recently since its extension to bath.

If you created a Bath night network i think the following would work.

5/10 merged together once the 10 gets to mount road you turn right then follow the 20 route to twerton parade, covers most of the 5 route then run direct to down.

14/178 i would run the evening bus to midsomer norton via bloomfield road and frome road then the bus on arrival in radstock would do a circle via westfield norton then straight back along the A362 into radstock before returning to Bath.

13 (Foxhill Side) bus runs out via wellsway into foxhill straight along North Road and then down prior park road into town.

13 (London Road) Via main road only service via London road Batheaston turning at the roundabout then back to town via the Bypass and London Road.

14 (Weston) Normal Route Bus Station to Weston

39 extra trips to make it 24/7

Frequency wise.

the joint 5/10 could run hourly plenty of time for the bus to complete the circuit

the Bath - Norton route i would move the 23:55 trip back to 00:00 and then run trips at 01:30 an 03:00

13 would be a one bus operation running from foxhill at 00:12 with trips from foxhill at 01:12 and 02:12.

finally the 14 would be one bus every hour leaving the bus station at 00:30 and 01:30, 02:30
That's a nice idea. Wonder if it would be a good Sunday idea too.
 

freetoview33

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God forbid that we provide services where people want to go? Instead, you put the main UWE service round the houses and so disadvantage most of the passengers, make it less attract to most, and your response is tough - sit tight or get a taxi!! It's classic tail wagging dog territory

And who on earth will want to change buses at 3am????? Really??? :roll:
People who have to get 2 buses! It happens! I know people living in Westbury and Henleaze who are stuffed withoutthe night bus and face a long walk to the nearest bus! This way no one looses out on a night bus, they just might face a slightly longer trip. Let's face it at 3am the 72 wouldn't be any slower than the 71 is during the day or evening!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am only saying as I have been getting buses in North Bristol my whole life (24 years) so I appreciate TGW you know more about Somerset! But North Bristol is an area I know very well.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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People who have to get 2 buses! It happens! I know people living in Westbury and Henleaze who are stuffed withoutthe night bus and face a long walk to the nearest bus! This way no one looses out on a night bus, they just might face a slightly longer trip. Let's face it at 3am the 72 wouldn't be any slower than the 71 is during the day or evening!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am only saying as I have been getting buses in North Bristol my whole life (24 years) so I appreciate TGW you know more about Somerset! But North Bristol is an area I know very well.
Yes, and I know that people do not change buses readily and certainly not in the middle of nowhere at 3 in the morning.

You may know the area but I don't think you appreciate why people make the journeys that they do.
 

freetoview33

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I did come across a lady the other day wanting to go from Westbury Village to Blaise, and was going to get the 18 as normal. But as it never showed got a 1 to Crow Lane and waited for a 4.

Like going from Henbury to Southmead hospital a lot of people will get the 18. Which is just madness. When they could get a 1 to Westbury then the 501 502 or 18 and save a good 20 or 25 min. Or the 76 and have a short walk.

Whatever you say people do travel around the houses out of choice to avoid changing. Even though there is a much faster way, but with a small change!

No need for the 18 to go from Henbury to Lawrence Weston it's just mad!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I did come across a lady the other day wanting to go from Westbury Village to Blaise, and was going to get the 18 as normal. But as it never showed got a 1 to Crow Lane and waited for a 4.

Like going from Henbury to Southmead hospital a lot of people will get the 18. Which is just madness. When they could get a 1 to Westbury then the 501 502 or 18 and save a good 20 or 25 min. Or the 76 and have a short walk.

Whatever you say people do travel around the houses out of choice to avoid changing. Even though there is a much faster way, but with a small change!

No need for the 18 to go from Henbury to Lawrence Weston it's just mad!
Yes, but your lady had chosen to take the direct bus which didn't arrive. The question is had the 18 not been in existence, would she have chosen to take two vehicles and change mid-way? And I'm not sure why you're mentioning changing in this instance - it was you who suggested that people change in the middle of nowhere.

There is a balance between attempting to maximise ridership by linking communities and going round the houses, and being so circuitous that it acts as a disincentive. That's why your ideas about sacrificing the frequencies on the X1/X39 to promote longer stoppers don't work.

In terms on the night 71, the comparator is wrong. Comparing the journey time against the daytime variant 71 doesn't reflect the fact that the competition (e.g. taxis, private car) also reaps the benefit of less congestion. That is what you should use as your comparator. The key market for the night 71 is students and perhaps they don't fancy spending an extra 10-15 mins trundling around North Bristol; I think this was where Dan was coming from.

If there is some latent demand then surely First would've run the 2 later. They don't and perhaps that is telling? Similarly, the fact that in preference to the old N3, First operate both a 43 and 44 because they recognise that people at that time of night don't want to be out for much longer than they want to.
 

freetoview33

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Yes, but your lady had chosen to take the direct bus which didn't arrive. The question is had the 18 not been in existence, would she have chosen to take two vehicles and change mid-way? And I'm not sure why you're mentioning changing in this instance - it was you who suggested that people change in the middle of nowhere.

There is a balance between attempting to maximise ridership by linking communities and going round the houses, and being so circuitous that it acts as a disincentive. That's why your ideas about sacrificing the frequencies on the X1/X39 to promote longer stoppers don't work.

In terms on the night 71, the comparator is wrong. Comparing the journey time against the daytime variant 71 doesn't reflect the fact that the competition (e.g. taxis, private car) also reaps the benefit of less congestion. That is what you should use as your comparator. The key market for the night 71 is students and perhaps they don't fancy spending an extra 10-15 mins trundling around North Bristol; I think this was where Dan was coming from.

If there is some latent demand then surely First would've run the 2 later. They don't and perhaps that is telling? Similarly, the fact that in preference to the old N3, First operate both a 43 and 44 because they recognise that people at that time of night don't want to be out for much longer than they want to.
I have addressed a concern of yours, admittedly you will still think it is over the top, but it is an improvement and a compromise! So here goes!

My old plan was as follows.

31: Broadmead - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - St Annes - Broomhill - Brislington - Keynsham (Every 20 mins)

32: Broadmead - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Knowle - Stockwood - Keynsham (Every 20 mins)

33: Bristol Bus Station - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Keynsham Wellsway - Saltford - Newton St Loe - Bath Bus Station (Every 30 mins)

34: Bristol Bus Station - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Keynsham Temple - Saltford - Newton St Loe - Bath Bus Station (Every 30 mins)

X34: Bristol Bus Station - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Saltford - Newton St Loe - Bath Bus Station (Every 20 mins)


I have changed this to the following new version

31: Broadmead - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - St Annes - Broomhill - Brislington - Keynsham - Keynsham Temple (Then looping back to Keynsham and back to Broadmead Every 20 mins)

32: Broadmead - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Knowle - Stockwood - Keynsham - Keynsham Temple (Then looping back to Keynsham and back to Broadmead Every 20 mins)

33: Bristol Bus Station - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Keynsham Wellsway - Saltford - Newton St Loe - Bath Bus Station (Every 60 mins)

34: Bristol Bus Station - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Keynsham Temple - Saltford - Newton St Loe - Bath Bus Station (Every 60 mins)

X34: Bristol Bus Station - Centre - Temple Meads - Arnos Vale - Brislington - Saltford - Newton St Loe - Bath Bus Station (Every 15 mins)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So basically 1 less Bristol to Bath service an hour overall and 1 more express service Bristol to Bath overall
 
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THarris123

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Just bare in mind all services would be single other than X34 which would be double
Right my time to have a go...

Why would you drop the frequency of X39? Why would you drop the frequency of 38 and keep it single deck? Why would you drop the frequency of centre to broomball and make it single deck? Why would you reroute the 2 from centre to Stockwood, drop the frequency and make it single deck? Why should there be a service from Stockwood to Keynsham and Broomhill to Keynsham each every 20 mins?

There is no untapped market for Keynsham to Stockwood or Broomhill. If there was Bristol CC would just fund an extension on 515. I am currently waiting for the next funding review from Bristol, which I will guarantee includes the withdrawal of 636 - Somerbus aren't making any money out of it, but he's only keeping it as he's getting paid by the council to run it. That doesn't justify a 20 min frequency on that route.

The current route of both the 1 and 2 from Centre-Stockwood/Broomhill are getting over full and there isn't enough seats/resource to cope. Dropping the frequency and making it single deck is completely the other direction where it needs to go.

The route of X39 is currently over full with single decks and even deckers at some times i've seen them. Dropping the frequency is not a viable option.

The dropping of the frequency and change of route of 38 is also a very bad idea. Most people use that service to go from Bath or Bristol to the Keynsham estates, not just central Keynsham. The 38 is also close to justifying deckers too at times.

I think a rethink is required again.
 

freetoview33

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Right my time to have a go...

Why would you drop the frequency of X39? Why would you drop the frequency of 38 and keep it single deck? Why would you drop the frequency of centre to broomball and make it single deck? Why would you reroute the 2 from centre to Stockwood, drop the frequency and make it single deck? Why should there be a service from Stockwood to Keynsham and Broomhill to Keynsham each every 20 mins?

There is no untapped market for Keynsham to Stockwood or Broomhill. If there was Bristol CC would just fund an extension on 515. I am currently waiting for the next funding review from Bristol, which I will guarantee includes the withdrawal of 636 - Somerbus aren't making any money out of it, but he's only keeping it as he's getting paid by the council to run it. That doesn't justify a 20 min frequency on that route.

The current route of both the 1 and 2 from Centre-Stockwood/Broomhill are getting over full and there isn't enough seats/resource to cope. Dropping the frequency and making it single deck is completely the other direction where it needs to go.

The route of X39 is currently over full with single decks and even deckers at some times i've seen them. Dropping the frequency is not a viable option.

The dropping of the frequency and change of route of 38 is also a very bad idea. Most people use that service to go from Bath or Bristol to the Keynsham estates, not just central Keynsham. The 38 is also close to justifying deckers too at times.

I think a rethink is required again.
Stockwood would still be served by the following in addition to what is above:

52: Broadmead - Stockwood (20 mins, Current 2 route, Single)
53: Broadmead - Stockwood (20 mins, Old 55 route, Single)

The 32 is just an increase in the current 57 (back to where it once was) to ensure Brislington maintains a good service, and so does Stockwood.

In the case of Broomhill a lot of people are within close walk to Bath Road to make it viable. (I know this First hand) but St Annes currently lacks a good service.

Although I guess some of my assumptions are based on the reopening of St Annes Park railway station.

But look at it this way:

Bristol - Keynsham - Bath (Is still every 30 mins)
Keynsham - Bristol (Is every 7.5 mins, all with single, vs doubles on 349 now)

The Keynsham estates have an increase in frequency to Bristol (yes a slightly longer route) But in my eyes no more of a pain than the loop around Southmead the 76 takes! And bizarrely the 76 is if anything the busier of the services serving Cribbs (Out of the 1, 2 and 76)

The 636 and 637 is funded by BANES I believed and not Bristol .....
 

ValleyLines142

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If U.W.E students wanted to get back in the early hours they would have to have a longer trip or pay more for a taxi .... considering how long U.W.E had no night service I think they are lucky to have 1!
They should have a direct service. Either via Gloucester Road or the M32, not Henleaze!

freetoview33 said:
Gloucester Road has a night bus. Redland, Henleaze don't! Centre to U.W.E still has a link. People could always change buses at the top of muller road if they were that desperate! (If the timetables were there to allow a quick interchange! )
Maybe it does, but it's not just about whether it has a nightbus or not. The key market here, as I have explained in previous posts, is the link between Gloucester Road and UWE, not anywhere else. I'm moving to Gloucester Road in January and will regularly be making trips back to UWE; I do not want to go via Henleaze for that!

People who have to get 2 buses! It happens! I know people living in Westbury and Henleaze who are stuffed withoutthe night bus and face a long walk to the nearest bus! This way no one looses out on a night bus, they just might face a slightly longer trip. Let's face it at 3am the 72 wouldn't be any slower than the 71 is during the day or evening!
No one should have to change buses at 3am?!?! Why can't you grasp the concept of ONE DIRECT bus between Gloucester Road and UWE? Why do you think First have the 70 the way it is? Why have they not got a night route ONLY on the 72? Because they know the target market.

I could potentially see the benefit of a night bus for Redland, but not Henleaze. You may as well give Midsomer Norton or Peasedown St John a 24 hour bus service!

Just bare in mind all services would be single other than X34 which would be double
I'm not looking at these to be honest, purely because I'm not familiar with that end of Bristol. But I can already see a link between Stockwood, Broomhill and Brislington, which I can already tell you is overkill. It's like making the 36 every 2-3 minutes.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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I'm not looking at these to be honest, purely because I'm not familiar with that end of Bristol. But I can already see a link between Stockwood, Broomhill and Brislington, which I can already tell you is overkill. It's like making the 36 every 2-3 minutes.
I've already commented at length on the night buses. I've given up trying to explain the fallacy of some of these other measures and what TH123 and Dan have said just fits in with my own thoughts.

There are other areas of "overkill" that make me question whether this has be done purely as a desktop exercise.
  1. 2: Broadmead - Keynsham (As service 57 to Stockwood, then as 636 to Keynsham, every 20 mins, single decker)
  2. Anyone else seen the 637 in action? I do so semi-regularly; the most passengers I've ever seen on it is TWO and when I saw it three times last week, it was EMPTY.
  3. Of course, this is replacing the 636 not the 637 - now so I'll ask if FTV33 about any concerns there may be about taking a Streetlite along the 636?
  4. Lastly, such a 32 would take 43 mins (excluding the above point) compared with the current 38 taking 29 mins - again, why would people spend longer end to end?

I think you need to change your fundamental thinking
 

freetoview33

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The land between Stockwood Lane and the Ring Road, is a complex one! BANES has identified it as an area that could have development, but then turned down development there. But I am sure it is only a matter of time before something is built there. So I don't think it is mad .... I think it is looking to the future.

Plus I would say more 39/40 mins not 43!

And the 637 route will become better used once development is completed .... yes it will never be amazing but an hourly service will work. Okay I agree the 637 was introduced too soon but saying that, it can help with planning permission if the area is served by public transport so.

How ever much BANES trys to stop it, Keynsham will be absorbed into Bristol at some point in the not too distant future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And let's face it, it's nowhere near as bad as First extending the 42 to Keynsham
 

THarris123

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The land between Stockwood Lane and the Ring Road, is a complex one! BANES has identified it as an area that could have development, but then turned down development there. But I am sure it is only a matter of time before something is built there. So I don't think it is mad .... I think it is looking to the future.

Plus I would say more 39/40 mins not 43!

And the 637 route will become better used once development is completed .... yes it will never be amazing but an hourly service will work. Okay I agree the 637 was introduced too soon but saying that, it can help with planning permission if the area is served by public transport so.

How ever much BANES trys to stop it, Keynsham will be absorbed into Bristol at some point in the not too distant future.
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And let's face it, it's nowhere near as bad as First extending the 42 to Keynsham
As i say if there's some untapped market Bristol CC will just extend the 515 and/or 57 to Keynsham. There certainly won't be enough demand, even with all the developments for what you suggest.

Also stating that it will be only 39/40 compared to 43 mins isn't going to help your justification.
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I didn't even know the 637 even existed! :lol:
It didn't start very long ago and it goes to places where you don't go very often. When you go out to Wells next week, you might see it in Whitchurch. it's run by Wessex usually with a solo.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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This is getting worrying - I seem to be in agreement with both TH123 and Dan!!!

First of all, TH123 is absolutely spot on. Whether it's 39 mins or 43, it still means little in comparison to 29 minutes on the direct route so the idea that people will seek to use some route via Stockwood for end to end (or even Keynsham to Briz) journeys is not plausible.

Then we have the timing/route. The current 57 takes 35 mins from Bristol to Stockwood whilst the 636 takes 8 mins to run Stockwood to Keynsham so 35+8 is 43 (unless you're advocating missing out the Callington Road section?). However, I again ask the question - do you foresee any issues in using Stockwood Hill? Anyone who's ever driven that road knows the difficulties of getting a full size vehicle along there, especially at the frequency you advocate; not achievable.

Therefore, you would have to run via the 637 route and that would be even longer - 48 minutes and that's with missing out Callington Road Tesco.

It's not as bad as extending the 42 to Keynsham?.... well, that is hardly a justification!

Lastly, the 637 has graphically illustrated the lack of a substantial market and the idea that there's going to be major development on green belt land is frankly untrue. There's an intention for 200 homes (part of the local plan but no development currently approved) which is not a huge amount when you consider that Somerdale is 700 homes.

As for "In the case of Broomhill a lot of people are within close walk to Bath Road to make it viable. (I know this First hand) but St Annes currently lacks a good service." - what does that mean? Are you advocating that people can walk to Bath Road????

Like I say, think you need to fundamentally rethink how you come up with ideas and reflect the realities of today.
 
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