Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

[Gadget88]

It is highly likely to be approved for single dose use in the UK, it still beats Astra Zeneca!

It achieves the primary clinical endpoint of zero hospitalisations or deaths, even against the SA variant.
That is all we ultimately need.

Worst comes to worst, come summer we can hit everyone who recieved sub-optimal vaccinations with a fresh course from the flood of Novavax and possibly Valneva.

Thanks that reassures me do you think I could be offered a single J&J dose the papers say they may reach over 40’s by March in 32?

 

[HSTEd]

Thanks that reassures me do you think I could be offered a single J&J dose the papers say they may reach over 40’s by March in 32?

It's all up in the air in the moment, we may reach the Over 40s, but it depends on

1. when J&J arrives and how much of it arrives
2. what happens with Novavax (CEO says it may arrive in early April in the UK)
3. Is Astra Zeneca still ramping production?
4. Whether Moderna arrives on time
5. Whether Pfizer is really able to ramp up on the back of the current slowdown

Either way, we are still hammering everyone else.

 

[Richard Scott]

It is highly likely to be approved for single dose use in the UK, it still beats Astra Zeneca!

It achieves the primary clinical endpoint of zero hospitalisations or deaths, even against the SA variant.
That is all we ultimately need.

Thought the Astra Zeneca did that too?

 

[HSTEd]

Thought the Astra Zeneca did that too?

Unclear, the AZ trial involved only young people so were no hospitalisations or deaths in the placebo cohort either.

From first principles we think it probably works, but we have actual data for J&J/Novavax.

 

[Richard Scott]

Unclear, the AZ trial involved only young people so were no hospitalisations or deaths in the placebo cohort either.

From first principles we think it probably works, but we have actual data for J&J/Novavax.

Ok, thanks, cleared that one up.

 

[Mintona]

There was a whole segment on The One Show last night encouraging people to take it. I’ve also seen that Radio 1 presenter Greg James has been extolling the virtues of taking the vaccine, both on his show and on social media. It’s being pushed at us rather forcefully by parts of the BBC and that makes me wonder if it is actually worth taking. They’re trying so hard to make everyone have it it feels like they have an ulterior motive.

I’m not due it any time soon anyway, but still.

 

[takno]

There was a whole segment on The One Show last night encouraging people to take it. I’ve also seen that Radio 1 presenter Greg James has been extolling the virtues of taking the vaccine, both on his show and on social media. It’s being pushed at us rather forcefully by parts of the BBC and that makes me wonder if it is actually worth taking. They’re trying so hard to make everyone have it it feels like they have an ulterior motive.

I’m not due it any time soon anyway, but still.

The ulterior motive for most people is that it's still seen as the route out of the restrictions, out of having to read depressing numbers, and back into a world where people can build a life. Notwithstanding some tiresome backsliding from government and scientists around elimination, vaccines will free us. For anybody who's getting offered the vaccine for the next month at least it's also almost certainly worth it to reduce personal risk.

I think the restrictions are over a massive over-the-top imposition, the threat from the disease has been overstated, and the vaccines didn't undergo as much testing as I might have liked. The fact of the matter though is that they've now been under a truly massive field test for 3 months now though with highly vulnerable patients. There have been vanishingly few ill effects and they've been more effective than we could have hoped.

Even if you hate the BBC for their coverage of the virus, don't bite your nose off to spite your face. Take the vaccine

 

[Bald Rick]

They’re trying so hard to make everyone have it it feels like they have an ulterior motive.

The ulterior motive is to reduce the rate that people are being admitted to hospital and dying.

 

[Mintona]

The ulterior motive is to reduce the rate that people are being admitted to hospital and dying.

Well, that’s the motive. I’m wondering about the ulterior motive.

I don’t hate the BBC at all. I watch and listen to a lot of their content. I just don’t like how much they’re banging on about it.

 

[nlogax]

Well, that’s the motive. I’m wondering about the ulterior motive.

I think you're looking for something that doesn't exist.

 

[WelshBluebird]

It’s being pushed at us rather forcefully by parts of the BBC and that makes me wonder if it is actually worth taking. They’re trying so hard to make everyone have it it feels like they have an ulterior motive.

Not quite sure how you can spin reasons to get a vaccine into reasons to not get the vaccine, but fine, I've accepted this forum is currently full of conspiracy theories so some people jumping on the anti-vax train shouldn't surprise me.

 

[Richard Scott]

Not quite sure how you can spin reason to get a vaccine into reasons to not get the vaccine, but fine, I've accepted this forum is currently full of conspiracy theories so some people jumping on the anti-vax train shouldn't surprise me.

Think you may have taken it the wrong way, not under the impression he's anti-vax just wondering if there is some other reason behind the big push. My understanding is reason behind it is to get hospital cases down so can return to normality but constant shifting of goal posts seems to make some suspicious. If politicians would just stick to a decision then maybe majority will be on board but they constantly prove they cannot do this.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Think you may have taken it the wrong way, not under the impression he's anti-vax just wondering if there is some other reason behind the big push. My understanding is reason behind it is to get hospital cases down so can return to normality but constant shifting of goal posts seems to make some suspicious. If politicians would just stick to a decision then maybe majority will be on board but they constantly prove they cannot do this.

Suggesting that there is an ulterior motive absolutely is the start of jumping on the anti-vax train sadly.
We heavily push vaccinations for newborns and young children, probably more so than we have pushed the COVID vaccine so far, does that mean there is an ulterior motive? Of course not.

 

[Richard Scott]

Suggesting that there is an ulterior motive absolutely is the start of jumping on the anti-vax train sadly.
We heavily push vaccinations for newborns and young children, probably more so than we have pushed the COVID vaccine so far, does that mean there is an ulterior motive? Of course not.

No it doesn't. They haven't said they wouldn't have it just wondering if they should. That's not being anti-vax.

 

[takno]

Suggesting that there is an ulterior motive absolutely is the start of jumping on the anti-vax train sadly.
We heavily push vaccinations for newborns and young children, probably more so than we have pushed the COVID vaccine so far, does that mean there is an ulterior motive? Of course not.

Stage two of jumping on the conspiracy train is usually being mocked as a conspiracy theorist by people who would be better off changing minds. Anti vaxxers and conspiracy communities are welcoming to people with questions, and give them a sense of belonging. Your angry dismissiveness is not useful in countering that sadly

 

[Darandio]

Suggesting that there is an ulterior motive absolutely is the start of jumping on the anti-vax train sadly.
We heavily push vaccinations for newborns and young children, probably more so than we have pushed the COVID vaccine so far, does that mean there is an ulterior motive? Of course not.

Oh, so this is that hostility you were speaking about on this part of the forum?

 

[Bantamzen]

Not quite sure how you can spin reasons to get a vaccine into reasons to not get the vaccine, but fine, I've accepted this forum is currently full of conspiracy theories so some people jumping on the anti-vax train shouldn't surprise me.

Full of conspiracy theories? Oh please! There may be a higher proportion of people questioning the government's strategy (which I believe is allowed in a free society?), but its hardly full of conspiracies. Unless of course you view everyone that doesn't agree with you as a conspiracist?

 

[WelshBluebird]

I mean, suggesting that there is an ulterior motive for vaccinations is very much part of the anti-vax playbook. But if you all want to ignore that then fine.
The reality is that there is not an ulterior motive for vaccinations. There just isn't. So suggesting that there may be is going right down that rabbit hole. As another comment said, if you are looking for an ulterior motive then you are looking for something that does not exist.

Oh, so this is that hostility you were speaking about on this part of the forum?

I don't see how that is relevant to this thread, but let just say I am not an admin of this forum and leave it at that.

Full of conspiracy theories? Oh please! There may be a higher proportion of people questioning the government's strategy (which I believe is allowed in a free society?), but its hardly full of conspiracies. Unless of course you view everyone that doesn't agree with you a conspiracist?

Suggesting that people are being purposefully diagnosed with COVID when actually they have flu is absolutely a conspiracy theory.
As is suggesting that the reason mass testing is taking place is specifically so the government can rely on the false positive numbers.
As is suggesting that there is a specific plan in place to be ban socialising forever, or have the rule of 6 forever (the plan and forever are the important parts of that claim that I am calling out).
And as is suggesting there is an ulterior motive for vaccinations.

All are things that people have said they believe in this forum.
Are you saying those are not conspiracy theories?

And by all means, in a free society people are allowed to believe in conspiracy theories (even madder ones than I've seen here too). But people are also allowed to call out those conspiracy theories as such. So just as if someone was posting here claiming that the earth was flat, I am sure people would very quickly suggest that the person is talking utter rubbish, why can't I claim the same when other theories that are almost as insane as that are posted?

 

[Bantamzen]

I mean, suggesting that there is an ulterior motive for vaccinations is very much part of the anti-vax playbook. But if you all want to ignore that then fine.
The reality is that there is not an ulterior motive for vaccinations. There just isn't. So suggesting that there may be is going right down that rabbit hole. As another comment said, if you are looking for an ulterior motive then you are looking for something that does not exist.



I don't see how that is relevant to this thread, but let just say I am not an admin of this forum and leave it at that.


Suggesting that people are being purposefully diagnosed with COVID when actually they have flu is absolutely a conspiracy theory.
As is suggesting that the reason mass testing is taking place is specifically so the government can rely on the false positive numbers.
As is suggesting that there is a specific plan in place to be ban socialising forever, or have the rule of 6 forever (the plan and forever are the important parts of that claim that I am calling out).
And as is suggesting there is an ulterior motive for vaccinations.

All are things that people have said they believe in this forum.
Are you saying those are not conspiracy theories?

So four then? Uh huh, absolutely everywhere aren't they?

And by all means, in a free society people are allowed to believe in conspiracy theories (even madder ones than I've seen here too). But people are also allowed to call out those conspiracy theories as such. So just as if someone was posting here claiming that the earth was flat, I am sure people would very quickly suggest that the person is talking utter rubbish, why can't I claim the same when other theories that are almost as insane as that are posted?

And I would agree with that. However you are claiming that this forum is full of them, when in truth the vast amount of discussion is around question approaches and policies, something that really seems to upset you at times in my opinion.

 

[ainsworth74]

Enough. You are all welcome to disagree with each other but this is both off-topic and turning nasty. Leave it there. I think we all have enough to deal with without also attacking each other on here.

 

[swt_passenger]

Unclear, the AZ trial involved only young people so were no hospitalisations or deaths in the placebo cohort either.

From first principles we think it probably works, but we have actual data for J&J/Novavax.

I’m between 65 and 66. What happens to the body to make a vaccine work better one side of 65? The way the French have gone on you’d think there was some sort of over 65 on/off switch...

 

[yorksrob]

Back on topic, Andy Burnham was saying on the radio that Manchester has a large vaccination centre set up in the Eithad stadium that is being underutilised due to older age groups opting to have the injection closer to home.

His argument was that they should be able to open these up to younger mopre mobile age groups within the priority group. Personally I'm all for this as we need to crack on.

 

[nlogax]

His argument was that they should be able to open these up to younger mopre mobile age groups within the priority group. Personally I'm all for this as we need to crack on.

Absolutely. We should be looking for any and all opportunities to progress through the risk groups as quickly as possible if local situations like this arise.

 

[jfollows]

Back on topic, Andy Burnham was saying on the radio that Manchester has a large vaccination centre set up in the Eithad stadium that is being underutilised due to older age groups opting to have the injection closer to home.

His argument was that they should be able to open these up to younger mopre mobile age groups within the priority group. Personally I'm all for this as we need to crack on.

Agreed. I don't find the situation surprising in the least. I had my vaccination yesterday at my GP, but if I'd been offered it earlier at the Etihad Stadium I don't think I'd have taken up the invitation; I'm perhaps at higher risk than some of bad outcomes if I catch Covid-19 but I'm extremely unlikely to catch it given that hardly ever go out and mix with others.
There was significant confusion at the start of the operation of the large vaccination centres when people were sent invitations to attend - but once people came to understand that not taking up the invitation would eventually lead to an invitation to attend closer to home, many of them will have done so.
Younger people may well make the same choice, but if the large centres aren't operating to capacity it would appear to make sense to do what Andy Burnham is suggesting.

 

[yorksrob]

Agreed. I don't find the situation surprising in the least. I had my vaccination yesterday at my GP, but if I'd been offered it earlier at the Etihad Stadium I don't think I'd have taken up the invitation; I'm perhaps at higher risk than some of bad outcomes if I catch Covid-19 but I'm extremely unlikely to catch it given that hardly ever go out and mix with others.
There was significant confusion at the start of the operation of the large vaccination centres when people were sent invitations to attend - but once people came to understand that not taking up the invitation would eventually lead to an invitation to attend closer to home, many of them will have done so.
Younger people may well make the same choice, but if the large centres aren't operating to capacity it would appear to make sense to do what Andy Burnham is suggesting.

I must admit, I'm quite eager to have it, so would be happy to travel further to a big vaccination centre and leave the local ones to the elderly, particularly if it meant I could have it earlier. I'm just outside the 9 categories though.

 

[jfollows]

I must admit, I'm quite eager to have it, so would be happy to travel further to a big vaccination centre and leave the local ones to the elderly, particularly if it meant I could have it earlier. I'm just outside the 9 categories though.

Completely understandable. I guess, after thinking about it a little more, for me it would have depended on how much longer I'd have had to wait for my GP to administer the vaccine over travelling sooner to a big centre - a couple of months then I'd probably make the effort. I also wasn't sure which category of priority I was in - it turns out that I'm in "category 6" so aged 16-64 but with underlying health conditions - I had a stroke, so I guess that's the reason. If I'd been in "category 8" because of my age alone (59) then perhaps I'd have made a different decision, although in the end it wasn't one given to me to take.

 

[yorksrob]

Completely understandable. I guess, after thinking about it a little more, for me it would have depended on how much longer I'd have had to wait for my GP to administer the vaccine over travelling sooner to a big centre - a couple of months then I'd probably make the effort. I also wasn't sure which category of priority I was in - it turns out that I'm in "category 6" so aged 16-64 but with underlying health conditions - I had a stroke, so I guess that's the reason. If I'd been in "category 8" because of my age alone (59) then perhaps I'd have made a different decision, although in the end it wasn't one given to me to take.

Yes, I expect different areas have different set ups with regards to vaccine centres. My parents were just summoned to a local doctors surgery, but they live in a small town anyway.

 

[35B]

Back on topic, Andy Burnham was saying on the radio that Manchester has a large vaccination centre set up in the Eithad stadium that is being underutilised due to older age groups opting to have the injection closer to home.

His argument was that they should be able to open these up to younger mopre mobile age groups within the priority group. Personally I'm all for this as we need to crack on.

I'd agree if that does not mean that vaccination of higher priority groups elsewhere is delayed due to constraints in vaccine supply.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd agree if that does not mean that vaccination of higher priority groups elsewhere is delayed due to constraints in vaccine supply.

I agree. Although Burnham mentioned that they already had a supply there that was awaiting use.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, I expect different areas have different set ups with regards to vaccine centres. My parents were just summoned to a local doctors surgery, but they live in a small town anyway.

My invite was by text last week (Wed 10th), confirmed within a few minutes, for attendance Wed 17th at a local GP surgery, but not my own. One surgery of four locals has been turned over to vaccination, with their normal patients covered elsewhere in the area.

Then I still got the national invite letter just a few days ago, it arrived after I was already set up with the GP group, but was dated 5 Feb. Presumably letters were made ready to go some days before the decision to send them was made. I suppose there’ll be a disconnect between various booking schemes?