Video Shots...to pan or not to pan ??

[Teaboy1]

Like the title says folks...what's the general consensus of opinion regarding panned shots? Is it a personal thing or a no-no? My feeling is that with video, one uses the whole moment to capture the approach, passing and departure of a passing train. It reproduces your normal viewing experience whereby you would normally watch a train pass by "turning yer 'ed" as it passes.
I see quite a few video on YT and find it a wee bit annoying IMHO to to watch the 'approach.....1/2 the pass........' and thats it !!
Your opinion most welcome folks.

Or do most folk just set the video running and then abandon it while they shoot with a still camera, this I can understand because the main objective is a quality still but if you are video photter , then why??
TB1

 

[90019]

I think it depends how you do it.
If you can get a smooth pan as the train passes, then it can be quite good.
Personally, I don't like panning where it's juddery, the camera shakes, or it's done very slowly. (My other pet hate is people who zoom out as the train approaches)

 

[Bill EWS]

The old addage is "It's the subject that moves, not the camera". It's worth sticking to in most cases. However, there is always room for some panning. The image frame is still quite small and often you can't get back far enough to fill the frame fully, or you may wish to move towards a point that continues what you are trying to say about the subject. The big mistake is that many people try to pan as you do naturally in real loife. However that is way too fast. You need to slow down the pan to a dead crawl, the slower the better. It helps if you are able to do a test run so that you take in the timing of the pan and know precisely where it is going to stop. Take a deep breath prior to starting the pan and breath out slowly throughout the movement. Your body is more relaxed during an out breath.

If you can afford a good Tripod with a proper swivel/panning head that will give you the smoothest pan but the result is a little clinical. A nice smooth body pan and knowing the length of the pan required and where to stop, with everything nicely framed is much more natural. A little bit of natural body movement is quite normal. Noone can hold a cine/video camera completely still.

Keep your feet firmly on the ground and let your torso, from the waist, do the movement. Keep in mind that the slower the pan movement the better. Try a dry run first, if possible. Think of what you ar making a pan for in the first place and what you want viewers to see at the end of it and for how long.

A big mistake with video is that you can keep running until the battery runs. But how boring would that be. As with cine film try and keep your scenes no longer than necessary. I always worked to around 9 to 12 seconds and where possible grab as many cut-away shots as possible. There's nothing more boring than having to watch a whole train run past the camera for some minutes from the spot. There are times when long runs are necessary but try keeping them to a minimum.

 

[Blue Pool Halt]

My normal approach would be a steady zoomed shot followed by a zoomed out shot (editing out the zoom transition). Zooming in and out is a no no on the final cut , as are disjointed pan shots.

If in doubt, just hold the camera steady and let the subject enter the frame, and then exit, then move the camera, adjust zoom and start again. The pictures need to tell a story or have a theme.

 

[mumrar]

Like photography, videography is about more than having the proper kit. Each location has it's own set of merits and pitfalls to take account of. One of the biggest problems I see with panning in videos online is that the panner (if that's correct) tries to follow the leading vehicle of trains doing 50mph or more. In my opinion I would let the train pass while panning slowly and then finishing the pan as the rear vehicle passes the camera at speeds above 50mph, especially if you're in close proximity to the trains.

Another pitfall (it's all my opinion of course) is zooming back in when the train has passed. I've never seen this on a professional video, and there's doubtless a reason for that.

Panning is not required for any shots where you frame the scene with landscapes or buildings of interest, especially where the train is anything less than around 25% of the full height of the frame.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If you're filming professional, you use pans and zooms where they contribute to the shot. Not just where you can. Pans and zooms are very hard to get starting smoothly, going at a consistent rate, and finishing smoothly.

 

[Teaboy1]

My take on the merits of panning are to get as much of your subject in the frame for as long as possible. Now taken as an average, most trains traveling at say 60mph are only with you for some 60 second max. Therefore, in order to exploit that you need to use all that 60 second, not just the first 30 and then waste the second 30.

Totally agree on the need for a tripod, I learned that within my first week of video! I however do where possible try to zoom back a wee bit as subject passes and the zoom back in to keep subject filling the frame. This naturally is at odds with 'Blue Pool Halt' and is surely not getting your maximum footage of the subject while it is with you. Taken to extremes, would it not be like a TV interview with only seeing the person asking the question and not then seeing the interviewee reply ??

However I am beginning to see it is a personal thing and that there are no hard & fast rules......except keep camera steady and dont faff with too much zooming about.

 

[matt]

As someone who films more these days I tend to do a mixture of panning and not panning. I am still learning to get the right mix of zoom and pan. I sometimes leave the camera running if I am taking a photo as well but I find these less interesting than if I follow the train through the landscape. I have improved my pans now I have got a better tripod. A blatant plug but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrvejY2CLSU from Swanage has a mixture of panning, zooming and static shots.

 

[Teaboy1]

Thanks Matt for that clag-tastic Deltic moment.... !! Also impressed with the ariel shot 7:03 >> 9:40.....but that simply proves my point about how one naturally views a panned shot...but blow me.....you dont do the same next frame for class 37 from 10:0 >> 11:05.........I hope I am making sense! First pan is great, second to my mind is only 1/2 a shot unless you class the carriages and track bed as part of your subject. It must just be my twisted view of the world, I feel the loco is the subject and not the carriages however you cannot have one without the other, so I do acknowledge a very fine video.....but I still believe you need to see the whole "thing" not just first 1/2 !!:-?

Here is how to do it IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLFE7wAGi4

You get the whole 110% much better IMHO

 

[Bill EWS]

Very nice vieo Matt and a good example of using a tripod and keeping any panning and zooming to the very limit, or not at all. You managed to get the full trains included within that 30-60 seconds in most cases. Much easier on the eye and no boring lengthy shots.

Oh, dear, the clagging from the Deltic and Western were horrific. It may look good but it couldn't have done passengers and lineside onlookers any good, healthwise. It reminded me of the eye-watering and nipping we experienced when shunting with these locos' You could almost chew the exhaust. Not nice at all.

 

[matt]

Thanks Matt for that clag-tastic Deltic moment.... !! Also impressed with the ariel shot 7:03 >> 9:40.....but that simply proves my point about how one naturally views a panned shot...but blow me.....you dont do the same next frame for class 37 from 10:0 >> 11:05.........I hope I am making sense! First pan is great, second to my mind is only 1/2 a shot unless you class the carriages and track bed as part of your subject. It must just be my twisted view of the world, I feel the loco is the subject and not the carriages however you cannot have one without the other, so I do acknowledge a very fine video.....but I still believe you need to see the whole "thing" not just first 1/2 !!:-?

Here is how to do it IMHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xLFE7wAGi4

You get the whole 110% much better IMHO

I don't quite follow. Are you saying the whole of the train should always been in the pan or something else?

 

[Teaboy1]

No I am not saying the "whole" train namely loco & 10 carriages, it should be re-phrase as the whole 'passing you by' bit, that is the approach bit, the bit as it passes observer and the bit as it disappears away from observer. Obviously to get a complete train in the shutter, one needs to be 1/2 mile away without obstruction to hinder view.... not really possible ! To my mind these 3 bits need to be altogether, not 1 or 2 of the 3 bits but all of them.....that's how the real world is. If you are track-side then all 3 happen right before you so you might as well bag the whole thing!! But what is possible is to get the "coming towards you, passing and then leaving you" bits. It probably is just my amateur status because more people seam to adhere to the old adage "subject moves, not the camera"

Apologies for confusion Matt.

 

[matt]

No I am not saying the "whole" train namely loco & 10 carriages, it should be re-phrase that as to mean the whole passage, that is the approach bit, the bit as it passes observer and the bit as it disappears away from observer. Obviously to get a complete train in the shutter, one needs to be 1/2 mile away withoutout obstruction to hinder view.... not really possible !

But what is possible is to get the coming towards you, passing and then leaving your position. It probably is just my amateur status because more people seam to adhere to the old adage "subject moves, not the camera"

Apologies for confusion Matt.

At a lot of locations this isn't always possible. For example at Norden with the smoky deltic etc there were several other videographers and photographers next to and behind me. I understand what you mean. I try and pan all the way round when its possible.

 

[chrismid259]

I very rarely use video when trainspotting but when I do, I never pan quite simply because by the time you've panned round you've missed out on detail in the video. When panning quite close to the subject, the subject can sometimes appear askew (if that is the correct word to use). This obviously depends on how close you're recording to the subject. If at the edge of the platform the above will occur. If on a bridge, this is less likely.

I think fixing the video on one point where the subject will pass and then leave it to record that way you're getting everything in, in this case the train from start to finish.