W Driver Only Operated Trains (DOO) discussion

[Carlisle]

On any routes anywhere where the equipment for ASDO is installed on both trains and platforms, will the doors be opened by the driver and then closed either by the guard or the guard giving the relevant buzzer code to the driver?

Certainly on SWT drivers don't currently play any part in door control duties whilst in passenger service so it would be entirely down to the guard

 

[notadriver]

Oh, I see we're going round in circles again! We already had this discussion several posts ago, didn't we?

Southeastern High Speed 1 is DOO with a safety critical On Board Manager, and there are non-stop runs from London to cities like Cambridge (further than Reading), as well as examples abroad which may be beyond the scope of this discussion. However some people argue these don't 'count' because they weren't run by the Inter-City sector of BR (though Gatwick Express is an example which was), while others will say that's missing the point. We then get onto something else that's already been discussed, before arriving back onto the topic a again few dozen posts later, and we go round and round again.

Southeastern High Speed one is not DOO. It requires an on board manager to operate in service who is NOT safety critical.

 

[yorkie]

Call it what you want but they are not performing the role of Guard; they don't despatch the train but they do have to be present because they're trained in evacuation through the tunnels.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You've proved my point, same questions on here been asked about why DOO works everywhere else (it doesn't IMHO). Circles. It's become boring.

If it "doesn't work" then that's odd, because the majority of passenger rail journeys in Britain are made on DOO trains, and they appear to work. As for become boring, indeed, but you just asked a question which you knew would cause us to go round in circles again. You're entitled to your opinions but the fact that many DOO journeys do happen without incident day in, day out, with the staff working those systems doing a fantastic job to deliver millions of people safer than any other transport mode, is undeniable.

 

[NSEFAN]

If it "doesn't work" then that's odd, because the majority of passenger rail journeys in Britain are made on DOO trains, and they appear to work. As for become boring, indeed, but you just asked a question which you knew would cause us to go round in circles again. You're entitled to your opinions but the fact that many DOO journeys do happen without incident day in, day out, with the staff working those systems doing a fantastic job to deliver millions of people safer than any other transport mode, is undeniable.

With DOO it is easier for someone to become trapped in the doors and dragged along without staff noticing. I just can't believe that putting more responsibility on one person is safer than dividing the roles between two. The issue seems to be however that because rail is already much safer compared to, say, road travel, this risk is acceptable because most of the time nothing goes wrong. This is never said explicitly but appears to be the attitude of those who make the decisions, that it'll probably be fine and we can therefore reduce staffing costs. If this is really the attitude we're going to take then we need to be careful, otherwise we start risking throwing away that nice safety record we have because "most of the time it's fine".

 

[SkinnyDave]

Call it what you want but they are not performing the role of Guard; they don't despatch the train but they do have to be present because they're trained in evacuation through the tunnels.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If it "doesn't work" then that's odd, because the majority of passenger rail journeys in Britain are made on DOO trains, and they appear to work. As for become boring, indeed, but you just asked a question which you knew would cause us to go round in circles again. You're entitled to your opinions but the fact that many DOO journeys do happen without incident day in, day out, with the staff working those systems doing a fantastic job to deliver millions of people safer than any other transport mode, is undeniable.

How many wrong side releases are there per year and how many on South Eastern in particular? How many drivers are being severely disciplined as a result?
It is not a safe method of operating it adds risk snd all in the name of saving money!

 

[crehld]

They are believing all the stuff coming out of the FGW propaganda department!

At the moment FGW are sounding quite reasonable, it's the RMT who are sounding like propaganda.

Please enlighten me on how FGW are sounding quite reasonable?

...

What do you mean by its the RMT sounding like propaganda? Do you know something that i or many others dont?

I believe the issue is more to do with the tone of the message rather than the substantive content.

The RMT's tone is archaic and confrontational and many of their communications could have been written in the 1980s. At a time when the government is trying to place further restrictions on already restrictive trade union legislation, I am horrified by the tone in some of their messages. This plays right into the government's hands. It not only undermines the core of the RMT's message, but threatens to kill off the trade union movement as a whole.

Like it or not PR is an important part of modern industrial relations.

 

[bb21]

Forum staff have decided that this thread will be locked with immediate effect. We appreciate that both sides have strong feelings on the issues discussed in this thread, however we are of the opinion that both sides have been given sufficient opportunity to put their arguments across, and we have mostly been going around in circles recently. In view of the bickering and ill-feeling this thread has been generating lately, we have decided that there is nothing further to be gained by allowing this thread to continue in its current form.

Going forward, this thread will be used strictly for updates on the dispute between the unions and FGW management on the working practice concerning the new rolling stock only. We ask that anyone wishing to post an update to start a new thread, meanwhile immediately report that new thread to us so that it can be merged with this one. This thread will not be reopened for further discussion.