Was my VTEC Super Off Peak break of journey permitted?

[offpeakenquiry]

Hello! I've got a possibly-complicated ticket validity question, and a friend said you were the right people to ask. I'm not quite sure whether I was in the clear, or whether a particularly rule-bound guard could have objected!

I had a Super Off Peak single, restriction code 1K, for Edinburgh to London. I broke my journey twice, at Durham and York, and completed my journey to Kings Cross all on the same day. VTEC's page confirms that break of journey is permitted on Super Off Peak, and the 1K restriction page only has minor restrictions there, to do with continuing your journey on the next day. So I figured all was well, and it was: everyone from guards to gateline staff was happy with me breaking my journey.

Except...

I bought this ticket online, the day before, through VTEC's web site. It cost £66.65, not the usual £125.70. In fact, I can't even find £66.65 as a valid fare on BRFares -- the ticket's got "47%" printed in the discount section. I only started looking this up after a friend couldn't believe how cheap my ticket was.

It turns out VTEC has a second page all about their special, web-discounted Super Off-Peak Singles, and hidden in the click-to-reveal terms and conditions there is a separate clause banning break of journey, and saying that the discounted ticket isn't valid for what I did.

Now: I clicked "super off peak single" on VTEC's regular 'mixing-deck' site, bought the ticket thinking it was a reasonable price, and had no warning of the additional no-break-of-journey restriction -- not even on the printed ticket. I just clicked through the ticket purchase process again to see if I missed something, and no: there's no mention of it, not even if you click "terms and conditions" on the journey, which links you to a page that says break of journey is allowed.

So unless you happen to Google the right words and stumble across that odd, second page as I just did: you'd have no way of knowing.

Now, this is just for curiosity's sake: no-one objected to my ticket, and I'm safely in London without incident. But could they have done? And what's the rule here? Could I have ended up paying a new full fare?

Thanks!

 

[najaB]

Could you post a pic/scan of the ticket?

 

[offpeakenquiry]

Could you post a pic/scan of the ticket?

Sure, here you go, artfully blurred to remove any ToD information and unique numbers that might identify me, just in case I did travel against the rules.

 

[Romilly]

The £66.65 price includes a small discount for buying a ticket for a VTEC journey from the VTERC website. It's probably a £68 ticket on BRFares.

Edit: it's not obviously on BRFares. It is, though, a special online offer where by buying no later than the day before travel you get a single for half of the price of a super offpeak return (the single would otherwise only be marginally cheaper than the super offpeak return of £134.20). Except that there is no super offpeak single apart from this special online offer.

 

[najaB]

Thanks for the pic. It says that it's 1K in the restrictions area, so that makes it 1K as far as I know. Unless the 'Disc' field has an impact on the validity that I've never heard of - would love to hear from a fares advisor.

 

[bb21]

Restriction 1K. That's pretty definitive to me. It's on the ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Welcome to the forum Your friend was right; this is the best place to ask!

It is very rare that break of journey restrictions apply, and even rarer that they are enforceable.

The NRCoC states:

You can:
Start, break or resume your journey using trains on which your ticket is valid unless you are told about particular restrictions that apply to the use of your ticket.

Obviously you weren't told about any such restriction when you bought your ticket, which means you can break it

So unless you happen to Google the right words and stumble across that odd, second page as I just did: you'd have no way of knowing.

Such terms are obviously not binding, as indicated in the NRCoC and consumer law (see http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-r...information-consultation-on-developing-a-code )

 

[offpeakenquiry]

Such terms are obviously not binding, as indicated in the NRCoC and consumer law (see http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-r...information-consultation-on-developing-a-code )

That's lovely! Thank you for your time, everyone.

 

[island]

The ticket is intended to prohibit break of journey, but it is less than clear that the prohibition is enforceable.

I am not quite as unequivocal as yorkie; in that a passenger fully aware and on notice of the restriction could well get in trouble for breaching it.

 

[Hadders]

These on-line Super Off Peak Single tickets are only available between Edinburgh/Newcastle and London, IIRC.

I believe VTEC want to restrict break of journey to prevent them being used on shorter intermediate journeys where they would undercut the single fare however they have gone about it in such a cack-handed way that I believe the restriction is unenforceable.

 

[ainsworth74]

These on-line Super Off Peak Single tickets are only available between Edinburgh/Newcastle and London, IIRC.

Actually I think they're available between most VTEC stations south of (and including) Edinburgh and London.

 

[Hadders]

Actually I think they're available between most VTEC stations south of (and including) Edinburgh and London.

Actually I think you could be right. They're not available to/from Stevenage though which means that when I make use of them I have to buy a ticket to/from London and start/finish short. I've never had a problem doing this.

 

[yorkie]

...I have to buy a ticket to/from London and start/finish short. I've never had a problem doing this.

Shouldn't you be paying a premium for the privilege of visiting concrete town Stevenage? How naughty of you to only want to pay the fare for the longer journey to London!

 

[cuccir]

Just to clarify - these tickets are Super Off-Peak Singles, available only online from Virgin East Coast at least 1 day before travel. They're priced at approximately 49% of a Super Off-Peak Return so are worth buying even if you're returning, and they're quite useful for matching with Advance fares as well. Although only available in advance, they are flexible within normal Super Off-Peak restrictions.

I think they only exist for London journeys (eg I just search Edinburgh to Peterborough and didn't find one) from stations to the north of Peterborough up the ECML that Virgin serve, excluding those with no Viring service (eg Chester-le-Street) but including those which Virgin serve irregularly (eg Morpeth) though there may be exceptions that I don't know of.

Because of this you can see why Virgin and previously East Coast would want to discourage BoJ with them: to take the case above, an Edinburgh to Kings Cross Super-Off Peak web discounted single is £65.00. The cheapest flexible Edinburgh to Perterborough Single is £112.30.

I'd suspect that it would be difficult for them to try and enforce this condition - the restriction is not well advertised and it's difficult to argue that it's reasonable for passengers to hunt for extra conditions on the grounds that they might exist. However, the intention is clearly to prohibit BoJ on these.

 

[Hadders]

What I don't understand is why VTEC don't introduce an on-line Super Off Peak Single from Edinburgh to Peterborough. Not doing so simply encourages people to start/finish short.

Perhaps I should've asked David Horne who was on the same train as me to Edinburgh this morning!

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just to clarify - these tickets are Super Off-Peak Singles, available only online from Virgin East Coast at least 1 day before travel. They're priced at approximately 49% of a Super Off-Peak Return so are worth buying even if you're returning, and they're quite useful for matching with Advance fares as well. Although only available in advance, they are flexible within normal Super Off-Peak restrictions.

I think they only exist for London journeys (eg I just search Edinburgh to Peterborough and didn't find one) from stations to the north of Peterborough up the ECML that Virgin serve, excluding those with no Viring service (eg Chester-le-Street) but including those which Virgin serve irregularly (eg Morpeth) though there may be exceptions that I don't know of.

Because of this you can see why Virgin and previously East Coast would want to discourage BoJ with them: to take the case above, an Edinburgh to Kings Cross Super-Off Peak web discounted single is £65.00. The cheapest flexible Edinburgh to Perterborough Single is £112.30.

I'd suspect that it would be difficult for them to try and enforce this condition - the restriction is not well advertised and it's difficult to argue that it's reasonable for passengers to hunt for extra conditions on the grounds that they might exist. However, the intention is clearly to prohibit BoJ on these.

VTEC only have SSS/R to/from London

 

[Hadders]

VTEC only have SSS/R to/from London

And Stevenage!